Official epson 6500ub owners thread - Page 6

as pointed out before,if you feed your 6500UB a 1080i signal,there is no problem with FI turned on along with the 4: 4 pull down engaged...

Bingo! That is where it becomes obvious to compare with and without different 4:4 and FI modes. I am just looking at the first dealing scene now and if you especially keep you eyes on the white shirts and cuffs under the tux jackets it becomes very obvious. Thanks for leading me to this location. It is much more obvious than anything I tried to discover in Black Knight (obviously, my eyes are not as good as Art's)

I am going to play with this some more today...see what I think of all of it.

What I have observed is that you can engage creative FI or 4:4 with 24p source, though, if you have 4:4 engaged it deactivates creative FI and basicly becomes the means of interpolation itself and grays out the creative FI menu item (and, from my testing it does not seem to make a difference if you were in one mode previously for creative FI or another before it got grayed out by engaging 4:4) Hence, no ability to BOTH creative FI and 4:4 with 24p

If 24p is off for 1080p content, you can not do 4:4...only creative FI (you can test this by turning off 24p support in the BR player)

If the source is 1080i (my satellite box) your choices are just like the 24p from 1080p signal.

For any who thought "uh-oh" when reading my original post #31 regarding the observed convergence and dead pixel issues on my 6500 UB, I suggest you notice that I have since edited the original post that was done soon after getting the pj set up, but before spending a lot more time with it and getting a chance to calibrate myself on the convergence issue as well. Bottom line, I don't consider myself to have a convergence issue at all at this point. I do feel I have identified 3 dead or stuck pixels on blue that I will be calling Epson about on Monday.

The worst scenes that I noticed is the chase scene following the cobra and mongoose fight.

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if you feed a 1080i signal to your PJ, having the same settings,you won't see any of those artifacts

But I thought that a 1080i source will not give as detailed an image as a 1080p source so why switch?

I thought a 1080i display would not look as good as a 1080p display but a 1080p display would take 1080i source, de-interlace it and display it at 1080p and look every bit as good as 1080p source.

The difference between 1080i and 1080p is apparent. There is a sharpness and depth you get with 1080p which is not there with 1080i.

Compare the US Planet Earth with BBC Planet Earth.

Most of the same footage.

US 1080i

BBC 1080p

I have both...It's not just me, my friends say they can notice a difference too.

I design and fabricate protective packaging. Epson, and every other electronics manufacturer, should hire us.

;}

If i put FI to normal & 4.4 on, i get jerkiness, that's w/ a 1080i feed from Dish. The jerkiness is accross varying content, from NFL to film.

let me know your thoughts - i'm curious how we can have observations which conflict so greatly.

Aceman

What ceiling mounts are folks using/recommending for the 6500ub? I'll need something with an extension tube to drop the projector down by several inches.

i was talikng about a 1080i from a Blu ray player...
are you feeding your dish network to an AV receiver then to your PJ? if you go to your INFO menu on your 7500ub,does it say that you're receiving a 1080i signal?
also as far as 1080i vs 1080p,if your projector is able to properly de-interlace 1080i,there should be no difference.you can google this comparison.there's plenty of info backing this theory up.

Why the difference in detail since they both have exactly the same resolution? How the encoding is done on a particular disc may make a difference. Feeding your display 1080i or 1080p (BD disc) shouldn't make a visible difference unless there's a difference in the quality of the deinterlacing and the Reon in the 6500 should be about as good as it gets.

For 1080i from a STB (and I specifically have Dish) turn off 4:4 and do whatever you prefer for FI...but I have chosen to leave FI off as well. It will play smoothly then. If you wish to enable some FI to try, fine, go ahead....but don't touch 4:4 at all with this source.

Bottom line, don't even think of engaging 4:4 unless your source is a 24p signal from Blu-Ray

For a BR player, I found no difference in smoothness of processed image whether it was 1080i or 1080p before the asundry of options were engaged or disengaged...meaning the different FI modes all looked about the same to me on same content and trial when I set up 1080i or 1080p (no 24p in either at this point) on the BR player...

i have my PS3 set to output 1080i and have 4:4 pulldown engaged and plays flawlessly on the 6500ub receiving a 60hz signal from a blu ray disc(Casino Royale)

BTW,talk about lossless audio in the hi def format,if there was ever a lossless video...that's what it sure feels like when viewing with the 6500ub

What do you like or dislike about your purchase of your new 6500ub? The feelings you get when you fire the projector up. Would you buy it again? Rate it on your own scale. I am looking to purchase soon and intend to build a room around it. Thanks in advance for your time.

Are you using 24p output with your 1080i output? Or, are you doing 1080i/60?

Also, I have now come around to getting the same results as Art by using 1080p output with a Panasonic BD35k...so, it was unnecessary for me to seek out 1080i to duplicate his findings. Hence, I bet he is using 1080p out from his PS3. By same results, I mean to say I have observed the jerkiness sometimes when using FI on 1080p 24p, but that is solved when going to 1080p and removing the 24p output selection from the BR player. I have NOT observed the jerkiness with 24p and using 4:4, only when 4:4 is turned off and I replace it with some type of FI.

Also, if anyone has configured a Harmony remote correctly to be able to "turn off" this projector given it requires two consecutive presses of the power toggle to turn it off, please PM me as I would like to know how you got this to work. I would just like to handle it via PM so we don't get this thread off track.

Thanks

After another day of viewing/testing, I have now found some perfect content whereby the creative FI is very helpful for....the 1080p BBC version of Planet Earth. Looked much better running in "low" or even the "normal" or "higher" modes of FI with 4:4 turned off since I was in the non 24p mode at the player level to mitigate the other artifacts that Art has reported. (I used "Low" the most because it was enough to solve the motion inconsistency experienced in panning shots that I reviewed)

So, in sum, my current rule of thumb for player and PJ settings after many hours of side by side trial and review in the different modes:

For movie content in 1080p blu-ray where there is a director's artistic influence, I like to output 24p from the player and run the PJ with creative FI off, and 4:4 enabled. I came to this conclusion because 4:4 seemed to certainly improve on nothing enabled at all between 4:4 and creative FI...as noticed in credits scrolling, but there were no artifacts or "issues" related to 4:4 for me on 24p.

For sports or broadcast TV I just leave the PJ set up for 4:4 off and creative FI off. I have not noticed any benefit too date in the sports I have watched thus far.

For scenic panning type content off of Blu-ray ... in this case Planet Earth, I set player to NOT support 24p as Art concluded, then run pj with 4:4 off, but with creative FI on.

I notice the great majority of you 6500ub owners are talking about the issues with frame interpolation. Does that mean that you are not that impressed with the picture this thing is putting out? It seems like the problems with this pj are overshadowing the picture quality.

Holy crap,
The review at pjreviews is up.
______________

With a review like that,
It will sell
Quite well,
Is my bet.

Does anyone know what the ANSI contrast of the Epson 6500ub is?

I agree on the perspective rwestley shared on FI. It is likely a very small issue to consider (if one at all) in selecting a projector as this is a new feature of image processing / display biasing that was not existent in previous generations of projectors. I think it is trying to do "a lot" and therefore you have side effects at times also. But, that side effect included, I think there are times that you might think it is better to be used anyway. The amount of airtime you are seeing on it here is because it is a new feature and has interesting effects that people are exploring and learning from....and no more should be taken from it than that. But, the more time, experience, and documentation that forum members put into this, the more specific use cases of benefit people will have. In this pj, there are really 2 things we are talking about. 1) Straight 4:4 pulldown and (2) Epson's implementation of creative FI. As for the 4:4, I think it is a benefit in all 24p incoming sources and I have not detected any side effects. The easiest way to see what it does and how much it is does in my opinion is to look at the credit scroll of a BR movie (I used Casino Royale) and toggle it on and off with a 24p source. It helps the image in my mind without completely changing the character of the image to a video appearance....hence, leaving the 24p film like effect that we presume the director worked within the bounds of awareness of when he implemented his creative talents. Now, on FI....completely different issue. I have decided that until t he algorithms change, I see little benefit of it relative to some tradeoffs for much content. However, its ability to help out in something like Planet Earth is unmistakeble on close, large screen pans of mountains or rock shale surfaces, etc. I just needed to put it on Low or Normal and a much better experience and I noticed no side effect if the BR players was taken out of 24p mode as Art experienced. However, for a movie where there was foreground movement on top of background panning, like in Casino Royale's initial card dealing scene when they pan the table and also when the Bond girl enters the play area and, specifically when she walks to the bar, you will see major effects, but some tradeoffs. First, the creative FI in low on a non 24p signal had about the same impact as 4:4 pulldown on a 24p in my testing in so far as reducing the stutter (my naive term) on the sideways pan (look at Bond's white shirt and focus on that). But, when I turned it up to "Normal" it had even a more effect, completely removing any stutter in that same scene....but that now causes the image to look more video like in many's eyes (Funny aside, my wife had Sound of Music on last night and they use those old style flat backgrounds of landscapes that they fake drive against...etc. It was in my eyes very "video like" HA HA HA). Anyway, the problem wit this last example, however, is that while the "Normal" mode has a greater impact at taking out all side to side stutter (really caused by the director's panning techniques) it then creates a nasty wave effect around the image of the actors body when they are moving against a panned background. This, in fact, is the worst side effect I have noticed. Watch the Bond Girl walk into the bar area when you are in FI "normal" and could be thinking you are benefitting from the just seen table scene. You see a wave like ripple coming off of her head as she moves. Yuk! To me, that was an indication that I or Epson was trying to do Too much.....hence, I decided that I should just use 4:4 on 24p for such type content....and in the end, it is an improvement over anything else I have seen too date.

At the end of the day, it is like I tell my wife. You can have anything you like, but you can't have everything you like. (well, not exactly, but you get the point! Ha Ha). I, for one, am not even convinced there is anything "wrong" with Epson's FI implementation in that there are just different effects and tradeoffs and they have left them in there for people to tinker with and explore what they like best, I presume.

I LOVE this projector....I think it rocks. (of course, other than the 3 dead or stuck pixels I am calling Epson about in 20 minutes)...

Reading Art's review, the only place I would debate his summation on this is that I have not yet seen a problem with "jerkiness" when using 4:4 on 24p........but, it is likely an impact of my "consumer" eye :-)

Also, if there is "jerkiness" going on in sports I doubt one would ever see it anyway because sports camera action by its nature is so jerky, fluid, and everchanging it would likely not allow much to surface into observance....

I was left very disapointed that it can't even do 24fps 4:4 right Creative Interpolaion aside. Hopefully operas are shot direct to digital. I need to decide this morning on either the 6500UB or the AE3000. I'm still planning to go with the 6500--but I'm wavering--this is very tough.

Yes thanks David, our posts crossed so I read yours after posting mine. I feel better about the 6500UB and 4:4.

After reading Art's new review, I am still trying to figure out the difference from 24fps with 4:4 off and 24fps with 4:4 on but Creative Interpolation off.

One would think it would be one of these two options: Does the 6500UB really only display "raw 24 fps" at 24hz with 4:4 off, or is it displaying at a more traditional 2:2 (i.e. frame doubling to 48Hz), and the 4:4 mode is doubling that again to 96Hz?

But reading the owner's manual online made me think that when 4:4 is off, the projector takes a 24fps source and displays it at 60hz using 2:3 pulldown. With 4:4 on, it displays 24fps at 96hz using frame copies. Which seems weird - why would I ever want to display 24fps at 60Hz?

Any thoughts? This issue concerns me enough to worry that if the 6500UB can't display 24fps at some fixed 2:2 or 4:4 frame doubling manner without significant artifacts, I will wait until it gets fixed or look elsewhere.

IMHO, AFAIK,

shinksma