or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › SVS New PC12-NSD Owners
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

SVS New PC12-NSD Owners - Page 9

post #241 of 791
I have a pair of tower speakers that have a high sensitivity rating (97db). Even though they are rated down to 27hz I have the crossover in my oppo bd player cut them off at 80hz and send the low freq to my SVS.
My question is: Since my speakers have a very high sensitivity rating should I set the subs gain at higher level then the recommended 30%?

Oh...forgot to mention that the room dimension is 14ft (wide) x 30ft (long) x 9ft (high)....or around 3800sq ft
post #242 of 791
The bottom line is that you need to use test tones and a sound pressure level meter such as Radio Shack's to calibrate the sub level to your speakers. Most receivers can generate test tones. The 30% setting is just a general starting point. There is no way to know the proper setting other than calibration.
post #243 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_019 View Post

hey all

have any of you managed to get in contact with sonicboomaudio.com lately? they're the canadian supplier for SVS...

i paid for a PC-12 NSD sub online two fridays ago and was told that i could come in that day and pick it up, but the person i dealt with brought in the wrong sub by accident (the PC-12 Plus)...i was told that he'd deliver the sub to me for free for his mistake (i live 10 minutes away) but that i'd have to wait a week and he'd call then to confirm...fast forward to last friday and i don't hear from him...i read a few posts here saying that they're moving their location so i can cut them some slack, but i've emailed them twice since and i haven't received a reply...i'm not sure what to do...i've heard great things about this sub and apparently the customer service is great (maybe this is just the US rep), but to not even get an email reply or phone call is discouraging, especially since i paid for the sub more than a week ago...should i wait another week?

i'm tempted to just get a refund out of spite whenever they do get back to me, but again, this thread alone has given the PC12-NSD great reviews...but now i'm reading here that the 12" NSD woofers are on backorder...great...

I ordered a new set of SCS-01(M)'s and a PC12-NSD from sonicboomaudio.com and had a great experience. I dealt with Mason, called my order in on Thursday and it was delivered the next day Friday and they were in a good mood and even delivered it all free. All in all I received a better price than if I could order directly from SVS. The PC12-NSD is replacing my PB10-ISD also a great sub, but the PC12-NSD definitely blows it away.
post #244 of 791
Got this sub on monday. For now have 4 SBS-01s and an SCS-01 also hooked up for 5.1 while waiting on my STS-01s for 7.1. Although, I've almost been considering just cancelling the STS-01 order cause thats how damn good and impressed I am by this system (but hells no I'm not actually going to do that!).

Anyway, this was my first speaker system purchase. Past 3 years been running a hand me down bose accoustimass system. All I can say is WOW.

The best part of it all has to be the sub though. Unbelievable! I got everything setup and calibrated and put the sub on an Auralex Gramma (which I highly recomend) and then put on Transformers blu-ray. I couldn't believe it. The sound was so clean and smooth, not punchy and harsh. But still very powerful. Definetly could feel the vibration and pounding during the action scenes, it just makes it such an immersive experience.

Anyway, can't say enough about how amazing this sub is or how amazing SVS customer support is. I had considered upgrading to the plus but having experienced the NSD I definetly don't feel the need for the PLUS. I will however probably get a second NSD as I will be moving in a couple months to a place with a 4050sq-ft living room (Hence the reason for considering getting the PLUS now). But SVS customer support adviced me to go with the NSD and get a second for the benifit of have dual subwoofers. I'm glad they did, the NSD sounds AMAZING.
post #245 of 791
This is my first post on the subwoofer forum, although I've been a long time lurker. I just received my new PC12-NSD Monday and managed to get it set up yesterday. My last sub was the PB10-ISD and it has always done a very good job in my room, which is only 12 x 10 x 10. You all know how it is though, you can never have enough quality bass so I recently got the fever to upgrade.

I watched Master and Commander on blu and even though my PB10 did excellent work with this film, watching it with the PC12 was an unreal experience. Like I said, the PB10 certainly impressed me with its performance, but the PC12 just took things to a new level. This was only the second time I'd watched this but it did everything my old sub did, just with much more authority and with seemingly no effort. The entire room was pressurized and the cannon fire hit so hard, it was unbelievable.

I only have had time to watch one other movie so I watched Fellowship of the Ring: EE. I decided on that because I have seen it numerous times and am very familiar with the sound. Again, it did everything my former sub did but just so much better. Of course, anyone familiar with the PB10 knows that this is not faint praise. It was almost like watching the film for the first time and I can hardly wait to rediscover many of my other films. I'm just glad that I live far enough away from my neighbors that I can crank it up and really enjoy it.

I'm planning to dig into some music a little later and see how it does with some Bach organ pieces and maybe a little metal too. That should make for some interesting listening.

In closing, I must say I couldn't be happier with the performance of my new PC12-NSD. I wasn't sure how great a difference I would experience since I was coming from a quality sub. Well, let me assure you that the difference was quite dramatic for me and I almost can't quit grinning just thinking about it. I realize that I have a very small room and that certainly makes a difference, but I would definitely say the PC12-NSD more than lives up to the hype. That said, I'm almost disappointed that my latest purchases are The Seventh Seal and Dr. Strangelove on blu (only because they won't really utilize my sub). Thank you so much SVS.
post #246 of 791
I received this sub yesterday and it is awesome!! Pictures don't do the size justice. I couldn't truly appreciate its size until I took it out of the box. I've attached some pictures of it next to my setup. I'm still working on the position though. I have an odd shaped room with small doors that access parts of the attic that we use for storage. The wife still wants the doors to be accessible without moving the sub, so it limits placement.
LL
LL
post #247 of 791
I like how the miniature door in the first pic lets me pretend it is in fact a normal-sized door and the sub is just that massive.

Although actually, the PC-12NSD is the first ID audio purchase I've made where I found it was exactly as big as I pictured it. The size didn't surprise me at all. (The girlfriend's reaction upon her arrival home was, however, a different story.) Everything else I've bought definitely gave me a "Dear God what have I wrought" moment upon unboxing it, but not the PC-12. Maybe I'm just getting used to buying oversized audio stuff.
post #248 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by CubicleDrone View Post

I received this sub yesterday and it is awesome!! Pictures don't do the size justice. I couldn't truly appreciate its size until I took it out of the box. I've attached some pictures of it next to my setup. I'm still working on the position though. I have an odd shaped room with small doors that access parts of the attic that we use for storage. The wife still wants the doors to be accessible without moving the sub, so it limits placement.

It still looks like a good choice considering the footprint of the box version and how much it would stick out from the wall.
post #249 of 791
This question may be redundant - but since I have 2 other "subs" I am using while I await a PC12 NRS would there be any use in holding on to one? They are a Infinity PS12 and a Paradigm PDR 10. I know they are no match for the SVS but would one of them be of any use as a second sub? Thank you for any input. At least I can give one of them to a family member, if not both.
post #250 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmbuff2 View Post

This question may be redundant - but since I have 2 other "subs" I am using while I await a PC12 NSD would there be any use in holding on to one? They are a Infinity PS12 and a Paradigm PDR 10. I know they are no match for the SVS but would one of them be of any use as a second sub? Thank you for any input. At least I can give one of them to a family member, if not both.

I would hold on to both. If you have a friend, not as fortunate as you and could use a sub, give them one. It's a nice gesture and won't cost you anything. Hold on to the other in case you have to have the SVS repaired. A lesser sub is better than no sub at all. At least in many cases.

That's what I would do.
post #251 of 791
hello,

I currently own a paradigm PW-2100 that has a 500W RMS class-D amplifier and is quit a good performer. I am looking to upgrade this sub and was wondering if anyone knows whether or not the NSD would be a noticeable upgrade from my 2100. my setup is used 50/50 for music/HT. I'm not even going to mention my room size, lets just say its SMALL, and that having an NSD in it would be overkill, but I'm an overkill kind of guy
post #252 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin1886 View Post

hello,

I currently own a paradigm PW-2100 that has a 500W RMS class-D amplifier and is quit a good performer. I am looking to upgrade this sub and was wondering if anyone knows whether or not the NSD would be a noticeable upgrade from my 2100. my setup is used 50/50 for music/HT. I'm not even going to mention my room size, lets just say its SMALL, and that having an NSD in it would be overkill, but I'm an overkill kind of guy

Go ahead and mention your room size. Mine is pretty small (11'x10'x8') and I'm using a subwoofer with similar capabilities to the PB13-Ultra. I previously had two PB10-NSD's and wanted even more. IMO it's really hard to encounter true overkill - only more headroom and lower distortion .
post #253 of 791
ok lakersfan, my room is 8'w x 14'L, probably the smallest room on this forum, but like you I am a basshead. I know you probably haven't heard the PW-2100, but, like I mentioned above, its a good performer in my room. i'm looking to upgrade to something with more output and better sound quality. I've been lurking around on this forum for a few months now trying to figure out what would be the best upgrade. So far I've heard nothing but good reviews for the PC12-NSD. I hate to throw another sub in the mix here, and feel free to tell me to look elsewhere for the answer but, The EDA7S-450 has an 18" driver and a 1300W amp and is selling for almost $100.00 cheaper than the PC12-NSD. should I go with one of those or does the NSD have something to offer that the ED doesn't? I use my setup 50/50 for music/HT. I appreciate any comments or suggestions. Thanks.
post #254 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin1886 View Post

ok lakersfan, my room is 8'w x 14'L, probably the smallest room on this forum, but like you I am a basshead. I know you probably haven't heard the PW-2100, but, like I mentioned above, its a good performer in my room. i'm looking to upgrade to something with more output and better sound quality. I've been lurking around on this forum for a few months now trying to figure out what would be the best upgrade. So far I've heard nothing but good reviews for the PC12-NSD. I hate to throw another sub in the mix here, and feel free to tell me to look elsewhere for the answer but, The EDA7S-450 has an 18" driver and a 1300W amp and is selling for almost $100.00 cheaper than the PC12-NSD. should I go with one of those or does the NSD have something to offer that the ED doesn't? I use my setup 50/50 for music/HT. I appreciate any comments or suggestions. Thanks.

Looks like our rooms are virtually identical in volume - just the dimensions are different.

I'm confused about the pricing you're coming up with. Maybe you got the models mixed up in your post. The A7S-450 costs $850 shipped. The PC12-NSD is $569 plus shipping (probably around $50-70). Overall, the PC12-NSD should cost about $200 less than the A7S-450. The next SVS is the PC12-Plus, which is $949 plus shipping - perhaps that's the model you were comparing to the A7S-450 in price.

It's hard to say what sub you should get. If you're comparing the PC12-NSD and A7S-450, I'd expect the eD to have a sizable output advantage, especially in the 35hz and up range. If I had to guess, I'd think the A7S-450 probably has as much output as two PC12-NSD's above 40hz or so. Down around 20hz the PC12-NSD and A7S-450 might perform more closely, as the PC12-NSD would benefit from its port close to its tuning frequency. Below 18hz or so, the PC12-NSD's output should fall off rapidly, while the A7S-450 should probably fare a little better.

If comparing the PC12-Plus and A7S-450, I'd still expect the eD to have an advantage in the 40hz and up range, but the PC12-Plus will be closer than the PC12-NSD. Below 30hz I wouldn't be surprised to see the Plus take over a slight advantage in output. Depending on which tune you select, I'd think the Plus could have an edge over the A7S-450 all the way down to 15hz or so before the eD takes over in the ultra-low bass.

As far as sound quality is concerned, I've never heard any of these three subs so I can't compare them. The closest I've come is the older PB10-NSD. I'd expect the new PC12-NSD/PB12-NSD sound better than the old PB10 so I'd doubt my experience is very helpful. My guess is that all three subs sound quite good (PC12-NSD, PC12-Plus, A7S-450).

Wish I could help more but that's about all I have...some good estimates and guesses. Good luck.
post #255 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by CubicleDrone View Post

I received this sub yesterday and it is awesome!! Pictures don't do the size justice. I couldn't truly appreciate its size until I took it out of the box. .

You're right it is huge! look small it makes that door look...haha

post #256 of 791
thanks lakersfan, the prices mentioned were Canadian prices. the PC12-NSD sells for $779.00 plus tax and shipping which would then bring the total up to $919.00 to my door, and the ed A7s-450 would be 850.00 to my door, I guess my concern is, and correct me if I'm wrong, sealed subs don't quite go as low as ported subs correct? so I'm still on the fence here. Not sure weather to go with a PC12-NSD or ed A7s-450. I know I would be happy with either one, but I've never heard a sealed sub, I've only ever owned ported. so if someone has either done a comparison of these two subs or has had the experience of owning either one please let me know your thoughts on how your sub performs (SQ, output, SPL , Music, HT.) Thanks.
post #257 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin1886 View Post

thanks lakersfan, the prices mentioned were Canadian prices. the PC12-NSD sells for $779.00 plus tax and shipping which would then bring the total up to $919.00 to my door, and the ed A7s-450 would be 850.00 to my door, I guess my concern is, and correct me if I'm wrong, sealed subs don't quite go as low as ported subs correct? so I'm still on the fence here. Not sure weather to go with a PC12-NSD or ed A7s-450. I know I would be happy with either one, but I've never heard a sealed sub, I've only ever owned ported. so if someone has either done a comparison of these two subs or has had the experience of owning either one please let me know your thoughts on how your sub performs (SQ, output, SPL , Music, HT.) Thanks.

Right after I posted I went to Sonic Boom's website and realized you were probably in Canada. One thing, IIRC, is that eD only ships free to the CONUS so you'll probably get stuck with some kind of shipping or duty fees if it's being shipped to Canada. You probably have a better idea of how much that will be than I do seeing as I don't live in Canada...

If I were to pick between the PC12-NSD and A7S-450, I'd go with the A7S-450 hands down. SVS is an excellent company with great products but IMO the PC12-NSD doesn't have a chance at competing with the 18" eD.

As for ported subs going deeper than sealed subs, that's not really the case. Here's a quick graph to give you very general example of the difference in frequency response between a ported subwoofer and sealed subwoofer:



The red trace is a simulated frequency response for a 15" Dayton Titanic Mk III driver in a 300L ported enclosure (tuned to ~19hz) at 500W of power. The yellow trace is identical except the box is a 300L sealed enclosure. The frequency response of the ported subwoofer stays relatively flat until the tuning point (around 20hz) where it drops off rapidly. The sealed subwoofer begins to roll off gently much higher but the slope is not as steep. The ported sub has a sizable advantage down in the 15-40hz range but as you can see the sealed sub's shallower rolloff actually gives it better output way down deep.

Keep in mind this graph is depicting the same driver and the same amp in the same-sized enclosure. The only difference is one box is ported and tuned to 20hz, while the other is sealed. Your comparison is between a 12" sub and an 18" sub with vastly different amplifiers and box sizes. Don't try to draw too many conclusions from this graph because obviously it doesn't represent the subs that you're considering. I just included the graph to give a better picture of sealed vs. ported subs in terms of frequency response.
post #258 of 791
thanks for you reply lakersfan I appreciate your time, well that graph explains a lot, now I can understand the difference between both enclosures. well I must say, you do have me leaning towards the eD now. Will the A7S-450 still have that "shake the house" feeling or are sealed enclosure more subtle and less intrusive on the lower bass? Because I do like the SPL I get from my ported sub. mater of fact my neighbor and I have competitions to see who can shake more stuff. lol
post #259 of 791
The A7s-350 is going to be $1200+ by the time you get it home in Canada so it's about 30% more than a PC12-NSD.
post #260 of 791
Thanks for the input mike, were did you get that info?
post #261 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin1886 View Post

thanks for you reply lakersfan I appreciate your time, well that graph explains a lot, now I can understand the difference between both enclosures. well I must say, you do have me leaning towards the eD now. Will the A7S-450 still have that "shake the house" feeling or are sealed enclosure more subtle and less intrusive on the lower bass? Because I do like the SPL I get from my ported sub. mater of fact my neighbor and I have competitions to see who can shake more stuff. lol

You're welcome. BTW, I'm not trying to steer you toward one sub or the other. I'm just trying to give a good explanation for my previous post about why I thought the subs would compare the way I said they might.

There's a little more to think about when making your decision. Bass frequencies often benefit from boundary gain; that is, they can build up and be augmented by walls and floors and ceilings. Deeper bass frequencies benefit more from boundary gain. The graph I showed is an oversimplified quasi-anechoic representation of the differences between sealed and ported subs. This means that it is assumed that there are no boundaries augmenting output. However, in a room (especially a very small room like yours), you will likely get a lot of boundary gain (often called "room gain"), where deeper bass frequencies are augmented.

If you notice in the graph of the sealed subwoofer, it starts rolling off sooner than the ported subwoofer but the slope is much gentler. In small rooms, room gain can often offset this roll-off, which can sometimes enable sealed subwoofers to be capable of producing a relatively flat frequency response way down deep, sometimes even into the <10hz region. On the other hand, ported subs roll off so steeply below their tuning point that room gain can't have as much of an effect on their extension. While a sealed sub won't get you the raw, visceral power in the 20-40hz band that a ported sub will, it's possible that in your tiny room a big sealed sub like the A7S-450 can dig very deep and retain a pretty flat frequency response while still having a good amount of power in the 20-40hz range.

I currently use an Epik Castle (ported 15" sub, 500W amp, pretty large enclosure, tuned to ~19hz) and though it's an excellent subwoofer, I think in my equally tiny room a sealed sub might have been a better fit. Instead of getting usable extension to ~16hz (like I currently get with my Castle) I could probably get down into the single digits with plenty of output. I'm debating going sealed at some point just to see what it's like. I envision some advantages and don't think that reduced output in the 20-40hz range will be much of a problem because my room is so small that output isn't a huge issue to begin with.

Just some more food for thought. I want to stress that both subs are great subs made by great companies and each one should be a significant upgrade over your current subwoofer. Best of luck with your decision.
post #262 of 791
Just came across this thread and I am in the same boat as Devin1886 - looking at buying the PC12-NSD but am really thinking about the A7S-450 after reading about it here. My room is 23 L x 13 W x 8 H, around 2500 cu. ft. and the PC12 seems capable enough according to Mason at SVS. The only clincher is how much the A7S would cost to get through Customs etc. Hoping to get a reply from Elemental soon.Too bad I can't keep things simple and stick with one sub instead of complicating things with multiple choices - an all too common dilemma for most of us!
post #263 of 791
filmbuff, if you'd consider a drive over the border, I've got an Epik Tower sub available down in Auburn, WA.

Oh, hang on.. I'm further complicating things.
post #264 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin1886 View Post

Thanks for the input mike, were did you get that info?

I just looked at the ED website and it said like $800 so by the time you get it home it costs about 50% more and probably like 100% more if UPS ships it to you because they steal from people with their brokerage fees.
post #265 of 791
thanks for the well detailed reply lakersfan, all this info really helps a newbie. Unfortunately I don't think I will be purchasing the eD due to the additional charges, so the SVS is in my scope. No set date on when I'll be purchasing, gotta sell my Paradigm first. All you new PC12-NSD owners, keep those posts coming.
post #266 of 791
BTW, thanks for the info on the additional cost mike2060.
post #267 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin1886 View Post

thanks for the well detailed reply lakersfan, all this info really helps a newbie. Unfortunately I don't think I will be purchasing the eD due to the additional charges, so the SVS is in my scope. No set date on when I'll be purchasing, gotta sell my Paradigm first. All you new PC12-NSD owners, keep those posts coming.

I had a feeling the eD would cost a good deal more than $850 by the time you got it to your home in Canada. Again, the SVS is a very capable sub as well. It should be a good upgrade from your current Paradigm. Keep us updated .
post #268 of 791
Say, Jephdood I don't think you are complicating my situation at all, except that I do not currently have the means to cross the border since the new policy went into effect regarding documentation - I was going to get the special driver's license in August since I rarely go to the US. I am very interested, the exchange on our dollar puts it at 1000.00 cdn. Sure would be an inticing idea if I could find a way to bring it over. I could pm you if you think it is worth pursuing. So I need to ask if the Epik Tower is worth 120.00 cdn over the SVS ( I have not included Customs ). Think it is a good idea in a wood framed townhouse?
post #269 of 791
yes, I just received an E-mail from Mason over at SVS saying Quote:"The PC 12 NSD will be a step up from the PW2100, with a much lower and flatter frequency response and higher output level." So I am quite anxious to hear how it sounds in my room, though I do still have a bit more $$ yet to save up, I will keep you posted. Thanks.
post #270 of 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Bass frequencies often benefit from boundary gain; that is, they can build up and be augmented by walls and floors and ceilings. Deeper bass frequencies benefit more from boundary gain. The graph I showed is an oversimplified quasi-anechoic representation of the differences between sealed and ported subs. This means that it is assumed that there are no boundaries augmenting output. However, in a room (especially a very small room like yours), you will likely get a lot of boundary gain (often called "room gain"), where deeper bass frequencies are augmented.

Don't confuse boundary gain and room gain - they are two different phenomenon.

Boundary gain is an increase in SPL when another near-field boundary is added. Ground plane has one boundary, and indoors in a corner has three boundaries (with the ceiling as a fourth more distant boundary). In theory, each boundary adds 6 dB, but in reality they are typically somewhat lossy and it will be a bit less.

Room gain occurs when the 1/2 wavelength becomes longer than the largest dimension in the room and the room transitions from a modal response to a pressure response. Below this transition frequency, a room can start to show gain (a rising response with decreasing frequency). For a monopole subwoofer in a tightly enclosed and rigid boundary room, this transfer function can in theory be 12 dB/octave, but in reality (with lossy boundaries) is typically more like 7-9 dB/octave, and is also dependent on room layout, etc.

The natural (i.e., without a protective high pass filter) acoustic roll-off of a sealed subwoofer is ~12 dB/octave, and can be a good complement to the room gain transfer function in a small/sealed/rigid room, which is why a natural roll-off sealed sub can exhibit a flat in-room FR to very deep frequencies.

While a vented subwoofer which measures flat to the corner frequency in a quasi-anechoic environment can exhibit a rising in-room response, the near ubiquitious use of decent auto-EQ programs on AVRs has largely eliminated this concern. With that said, we do include a room gain compensation control on some of our models. Our AS-EQ1 is another solution, and there is certainly no shortage of decent inexpensive conventional PEQs which can also tame a rising low-end as needed.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › SVS New PC12-NSD Owners