New Roku HD - I Have Seen the Future - Page 2

I'm not sure... maybe from this thread on the roku forums... but I might be misinterpreting or overconcluding... some of this are plans stated in May by Roku employees. It's not entirely clear as I re-read the thread whether all this is contained in V1.5 (or is even still planned).???

Oops. Meant to include this link... http://forums.rokulabs.com/viewtopic...r=asc&start=15

No, I am not a salesman for Oppo nor a beta tester either, though that might be fun.

To put my comments in perspective: I use the Oppo DV-983H for DVD, a PS3 for BD, D* HR-21 HD DVR all output via HDMI to an Integra 9.8 pre-pro.

My display device is a fully calibrated BenQ PE-7700 720p pj firing to a 133" Dalite HP screen.

To clear one thing up, to date commercial Blu-Ray disc are being produced using 3 video codecs: VC1, AVC (MPEG4) and MPEG-2. MPEG-2 is probably going away though for BD production.

I have no doubt that the 720p HD stream of The Thing from the Roku player looked quite good. It is also quite possible that the original authoring on DVD was sub-par.

Did not know that Netflix was now using the VC-1 codec in the 1.5 FW update. Must be a special version to get decent PQ with only 2.6 or so Mbps down? What is the memory size in the Roku box? There is much I do not know about the specifications of the cute little $99 box. I will learn as the device now offers a utility that before the update did not exist.

What I do know is that to compare the Oppo 983 to the Memorex MVD-2045 is more than a stretch. To say that Oppo pioneered this territory a few years ago and now the cheapest players have these features is leaving just about all of the details out of the picture, (pun intended).

The 983 uses the Anchor Bay chipset for de-interlacing and scaling. With that and other parts of the design the 983 is the first and only DVD player to date to receive a perfect 100% score from the Secrets website. Yes reviews that include rather expensive players from Denon and others.

I have no idea what chipset is in the Magnavox player. Speculation was that the ABT chip cost Oppo around $90 per unit.

With the best authored DVD's guests in my theater have been fooled into thinking that they are watching HD. Comparisons to BD from the PS3 have been closer than I would have expected. I need to upgrade to 1080p

OK, back to the Roku. Since I do not have the down speed to watch Netflix streaming in 720p HD my conclusions are incomplete.

A thought though. With this new FW the player scales to 720p (from 480p) if the display device in the menu is selected as HDTV? And if Anamorphic 16:9 is selected than 480p is sent?

The Reon processor in my 9.8 might do a better job with scaling. This stuff is a bit more complicated than just 20 years ago.

Just watched a bit of "Air Force One" from the Roku. Not too shabby. The variance in PQ from selected titles in the queue is a puzzle.

If you go over to the forums on Roku's site it would seem many are not happy with 1.5. Growing pains.

The future, is not here yet. As, for example, Netflix with their effort has to get past a 2.0 audio stream.

Joe

Certainly 'speed' has a lot to do with it. I have a decently fast cable connection and find the 1.5 update a marked improvement IMO. No, it's a far cry from Blue Ray or HD broadcasts, even HD Sat or Cable..more like a 'good' SD DVD in a 16:9 presentation. But for now, and the price I can live with it quite nicely. Audio seems improved also, even if stereo, it does seem to sound better.

I've gotten rear surround sounds out of some Roku movies, so I assume some is in DD.

It may be...I was not sure it was DD or Pro-Logic. My receiver does not seem to automatically change with the Roku input. Probably because I'm using an aux input, although it is optical so I would think it would be processed accordingly.
May certainly vary with the particular movie too.

I use optical or coax, too (I can't remember which - I have my HD receiver, my Roku box, and my PS3 hooked up with digital audio - I think the PS3 and Roku are optical, and the HD box is coax). And it does seem to vary with the movie. I'll have to find one that outputs to the rear surrounds and see what my receiver displays. The audio inputs I connect to are:

HD box - Video 2
PS3 - CD/DVD
Roku box - Video 3

(6-year-old Kenwood Home Theater In A Box)

Here's the actual article PLB referenced. http://blog.netflix.com/2008/11/enco...streaming.html

From what I can tell, there isn't any non-2.0 audio. If you heard sound from rear speakers its probably your receiver's DPLIIx putting it there.

The majority of content is SD, output from Roku at 480i. Some is HD at 720p. Roku 1.5 uses the new VC1-AP video codec, as do Samsung, LG and Tivo Netflix Players.

As per the article, the varying quality between titles is due to varying quality of original sources. It's garbage in-garbage out. From personal experiences, take a look at Heroes or CSI. Even at SD it looks fantastic, on par with DVD. HD streams are better.

In contrast, my wife wanted to watch 1941(?) Holiday Inn over the holidays. It was a decent b&w print that streamed in SD, but nothing that compares to a recent shot-in-HD content.

Max

Oh, yeah, that'll happen!
Not the artists "vision". Not enough proven market potential. The backlash would be scary to Hollywood. You're probably right, though, it would be a nice adventure/action flick.

Roku 1.5 upgrade is using a different codec, VC-1 Advanced Profile. This allows for better quality at lower bitrate (and helps you loose weight too. )

The presence of 5.1 audio is misinformation. Audio is still stereo. See http://blog.netflix.com/2008/11/enco...streaming.html

Yes, it remains 2CH at this point. The 1.5 FW has been good and bad depending on many issues. The forum at Roku is very lively (just don't expect AVS quality).

The future may not be here. It may be close. As in a few years. All depends on the down TX available to the average home. It would seem that the US is behind the curve.

With all the Billions being talked about in spending for infrastructure, who knows?

Nah, they have no clue.

Joe

I started using the roku hd . Its not as good as a good blue ray title but it is much better than a standard dvd

I have a 49 by 115 inch screen using a sim2 ht380 projector and the image quality is as good as an Hd broadcast

The scaling is off though. I have a 1080p projector and I have to stretch the screen and use the Panamorph prism to get the scale right

Still no complaints

From the endgaget review I understand the Samsung blue ray player puts out a much better image. If that's true than it is as good as blue ray

I don't see the near end of blue ray but I thinktheend of network television at hand

mlang46
What kind of internet connection do you have?
I'm getting a decent picture, but not like yours! My connection is at best 3mbps.
It is bad with some titles better with others.

Check out the streaming devices shoot out at http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/19/d...ming-shootout/. Interesting comment about Roku's PQ.

Good article! I am not sure why they keep saying don't forget Roku is a still a great deal for $100. I can't believe the other components use circuits much better or that cost any more.
The article was largely subjective though, but it is possible the output of Netflix decoder outputs through a better circuitry in the other players. Rather moot point. I think this is a sign of better things to come, overall.

Not all titles give as good a picture and if you do not get 4 bars you will not get an HD like reception. I have Comcast and I measure 6 mbytes a lot of the time

When you download look at the picture it will say Hd

IT really is very good when it works well

Ok,

This really is cool as hell.

I decided to check it out with my Xbox360.

You can now put the Netflix HD movies to your "streaming queue" and watch them via the roku or 360.

The quality is less than a Blu-Ray for sure but it is still very nice.

Very cool...I just wish they had more in HD. It looks a LOT better than their normal streaming movies.

I can only imagine once we get to the point to watch ANY movie streamed in full HD quality like a BD.

It will come at some point but we have a nice start now.

I got 4 bars BTW.

All of this is fun and really cool as a novelty. It's also good if they happen to have something that you like, and it also happens to look good. Unfortunately that isn't very often. I've been catching up on The Office which looks great.

I'm not using the Roku box, but the Netflix streaming has been added to my Xbox 360 and my Series 3 TiVo.

To comment on the early discussion about Blu vs. streaming... the studios simply cannot rely upon the cooperation of a 3rd party that has interests that do not align. Most of the larger companies that get broadband into your home effectively view VOD as a huge cash cow. Many of them are also saddled with a ton of debt that makes it increasingly difficult to continue to decongest their networks as people use more and more bandwidth. Caps are, and will continue to be an effective tool for them to manage all of their problems. I think the caps are the future. If you want to stream HD, then the ISP will charge you more for the bandwidth, making that less attractive as an option.

For the movie studios to get behind online streaming in HD full force, they need a greater degree over all aspects of the business model. Right now they are at the mercy of the ISPs. Until they can overcome this, streaming from companies like Netflix will continue to be a novelty that gets you access to some bonus content. It won't be viable as a primary source of content.

Like Apple says, the AppleTV is currently more of a hobby for them. It's a worthwhile investment in the future, but they understand it's not happening on a grand scale anytime soon. Streaming HD may in fact be the future, but the future is an awfully big landscape. For the near future it's just a toy.

My $0.02 of course...

I guess I just don't understand some of the posts. (THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS ANY POSTER IN PARTICULAR). When you get a Netflix subscription for $8.95 or higher, you are subscribing to DVD rentals as often as you can get them, watch them, turn them around, and receive the next one. In other words, that is what you are paying $8.95 or more a month for. You AREN'T paying for streaming videos. Now some people might believe that because all they want to do is stream, that they are paying $8.95 a month for streaming. You're not. You're paying for the DVD's. Whether or not you use them is totally up to you. The streaming is a "FREE" bonus. Because it is relatively new in technology; (Subscriber's bandwidth/ISP/backhaul very dependent); there are going to be glitches, fall outs, quality issues, etc... Oh well. So, whether every movie available streaming is pre-1980; or they're only available in 480i; or the selection isn't big enough; etc... So what? You're not paying for it. The quality, selection, format, glitches, etc... will all improve with time. That's how technology works. Good old capitalism. As Amazon and other forms of streaming get on board, this technology will improve. AND THEY WILL REALLY START CHARGING FOR IT!!! So I think I am just going to enjoy the FREE MOVIES I CAN GET BY STREAMING. If they come across good; EXCELLENT. If not, I'll pick another movie. But I'll enjoy it while it's free. Until bandwidth is large enough on both ends of the pipe, streaming will never be Blu-Ray quality. Not for a while. So, averaging 4-6 Blu-Ray movies a month for $9.95 a month and UNLIMITED FREE "Whatever they have available movies"; as a bonus, sounds great. The time is going to come when streaming won't be a free bonus. We'll be paying $1 a movie or similar. We'll be paying a lot more than the current DVD/BD Netflix rental rates. I don't mind paying for what I want. I just have never been able to complain about anything when it's FREE. Contacting the company with constructive criticism or discussing "HOW TO's" to get around glitches is cool. But it's really hard to complain about "FREE".

My comments were mostly targeted at the "Blu-Ray is dead" comments earlier in the thread. I would agree that the Netflix streaming is neat as a "bonus" but to use it as a basis to declare physical media dead is more than a bit of a stretch.

As it stands today, so true. But the 'promise' is still a alive.

Brent; if you look at my 1st sentence, I said that my post was directed towards anyone in particular. Your post "JUST HAPPENED" to be the one before mine. I believe that Blu-Ray is not in any danger of being replaced by streaming video. Neither will traditional DVD. At least not for a while. The problem with forums; OF ANY TOPIC; is that those commenting make up such a small percentage of users. Even this topic. I would bet that the overwhelming majority of Netflix customers don't even visit forums. Neither voip, HDTV, Ford, Toyota, or any other forum. The bandwidth issue required for sufficient streaming just isn't there yet. And until the "Net Neutrality" supporters get away from their beliefs that bandwidth is everything and NOTHING should be prioritized in the traffic stream; then things like VOIP, Video Conferencing; Live Video; and to an extent video streaming will progress extremely slow. I'm looking forward to my Roku box coming in a couple of days. If it works out; GREAT. If it isn't all that; SO WHAT! My $9.95 a month is for Netflix DVD/BD. If I can watch an old Billy Jack or similar classic without having to go buy or rent it; then that's great. Streaming is simply to supplement when there ISN'T SOMETHING ON MY 250+ DirecTV channels. LOL!!! And it's free; so I will never complain about it. I might complain about the Roku box if it doesn't work; but that's between me and the equipment company. Not the content provider.

Received the Netflix Roku box yesterday and had it up and running in about 10 minutes using component and optical cables. My home LAN/wireless network is upstairs, so I'm using a Linksys WRT54G w/ DD-WRT as a wireless brige downstairs in the family room to maximize the signal strength/quality for the Roku box; getting 4 dots steady for the data bit rate. The Roku automatically updated itself with FW 1.5 (for HD) at the first power up. It's working great and the PQ of the streaming movies is very good.

The only peculiar discovery so far is that there's no power on/off switch or function: To turn off the Roku, you unplug it! Just remember, the full operating manual (54 pages) can be downloaded from the Roku site. Also, the Roku is a supported device for Logitech's Harmony One remote control.
First Impression: Roku Rocks!

Got mine last weekend and it did the update thing via my wifi router.
It was playing a movie about 20 minutes out of the box.

Getting "The Thing" to play in HD (720p) was on the hairy edge, so I moved
the router up out of the basement and now it's running wireless like it's wired.

I have the cheapest, slowest broadband service my ISP sells.
It's just under 5 megabits, and amazingly, I can still get good speed
out of the desktops & laptops, while watching HD with the roku.

I did go into the hidden menu and tweak the bits a little and so far,
I'm very happy with my gift.

PQ for SD sources is about the same as DVDs.
PQ for HD sources (like The Thing) is excellent on both of our DTVs.

IMHO, If I had the full choice of everything Netflix offers in DVD,
I would skip using the US mail, And just watch ALL my movies via roku.
Especially the HD movies. (Since my DVD player is an old 480p).

Cheers,
Rich

I currently have Netflix and stream from my laptop that has HDMI out to large panel. I'm considering getting the Roku but am wondering if it is capable of silverlight upgrades as often as in Windows. Do the hardware based players even use sliverlight? Since Netflix constantly improves their encoding with almost every set of streaming releases, I want to use the player that can best adapt to the latest encoding methods. Should I wait for nextgen Roku with 1080 out?

Also, I don't see HD titles available from PC version of Netflix. Is it for Roku only?

No, Roku and similar hardware Netflix devices don't use Microsoft's Silverlight, which is a web browser based player. However they do stream the same VC1- Advanced Profile video encodes, so you'll get the latest encodes that Netflix provides.


Netflix HD encodes currently max out at 720p. The only reason to wait might be if you have a very old HDTV that inputs HD in 1080i format only. HD streams are NOT available for the PC player.