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BEST sounding HT receiver for right around $1000??? buying next week - Page 2

post #31 of 49
12/29/08 at 8:54am
I would prioritize the features you are looking for, which may help narrow it down. Do you want Audyssey, how many HDMI inputs, do you care about the on-screen GUI, do you need a good video scaler, what is your preferred method of firmware updates, how many watts, will you want to go 'separates' down the road, would you buy over the internet, etc..

Once you settle on the minimum feature set, then you can ask around about the particular speakers you have see what others feel about the particular model you are looking at.

Also things to consider are how large your room is, speaker efficiency, how long you plan to keep it, etc.
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post #32 of 49
1/3/09 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post

You're searching for a reciever that has "Pre outs" that will allow you to out put a signal to an external amp. The main reason for recommending a Reciever, as opposed to a true Pre/Pro, is the recievers have a lot of bells and whisles for a LOT less money than at ture Pre/Pro, which has no amp.



The main difference between the 806 and 876 is the 867 has a Reon upconverting chip that will make standard def TV and DVD look better on your TV.
Not sure what's in the Denon, but I believe it's still a Faroudja chip.

so the denon will NOT do as good of a job upscaling dvd and SD tv?
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post #33 of 49
1/4/09 at 12:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj79 View Post

so the denon will NOT do as good of a job upscaling dvd and SD tv?

Again, I'm not sure what chip the Denon has, but the Reon Chip is considered much better a scaling. There has been chatter about a lot of heat from the Onkyo units, parituclarly if it's in a cabinet. Some have placed a 120mm comuter fan on the top of the case there it gets hot at, and it seems to really help.
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post #34 of 49
1/4/09 at 1:34am
I have yet to see a chip excel simply because it's a good scaler. Any decent chip should deinterlace correctly.

Which brings us to stuff like noise reduction, which might help SD. Thing is, I never see chips evaluated for that, and it's a "high end" feature still. My RX-V3900, for example using ABT's best chip does nothing useful for SD. The Yamaha RX-Z7 using the same chip seems to include all the noise reduction options and such, but it's over 2k (we assume the 3900 could do the same thing, but it's not enabled or implemented.)

My point here is that most receiver VP is not useful in my experience. But some of the higher end Onkyos may include VP that goes beyond vanilla deinterlacing and scaling. And some Denon receivers may as well, it's hard to say without testing.
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post #35 of 49
1/4/09 at 6:10am
I'm with the ones here that say get a good receiver you can use as a pre-pro and go and order the Emotiva UPA-7. In your price range for a receiver for this type of configuration is the Yamaha 663, Pioneer 1018,Onkyo 706(close) or a used one from either here or one at Audiogon. What speakers are you using? Remeber one thing also you will always be looking to upgrade, problably sooner than you think. So get something that you don't have to shell out big bucks to start with, especially in your receiver because I feel when you hear what an amp can do with your system you'll never "just" use a receiver for your power needs. You can get the Pioneer 1018 and an Emotiva UPA-7 delivered to your door for around $1020.00. Sounds like a no brainer to me. Yamaha 663 and Emotiva a little more. Don't fall for the garbage you will get here that an amp will not make a difference. There are only a very few receivers out there that actually put out the power as their specs say. Sony is one of the worst. The amps are a different story, at least they come close to their stated power. You can also buy a lot of this equipment on-line, try it out in your home and return what you don't like. You be sure and buy from a reputable dealer with good return policies that don't hit you with some off the wall restocking fees.
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post #36 of 49
1/4/09 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

I'm with the ones here that say get a good receiver you can use as a pre-pro and go and order the Emotiva UPA-7. In your price range for a receiver for this type of configuration is the Yamaha 663, Pioneer 1018,Onkyo 706(close) or a used one from either here or one at Audiogon. What speakers are you using? Remeber one thing also you will always be looking to upgrade, problably sooner than you think. So get something that you don't have to shell out big bucks to start with, especially in your receiver because I feel when you hear what an amp can do with your system you'll never "just" use a receiver for your power needs. You can get the Pioneer 1018 and an Emotiva UPA-7 delivered to your door for around $1020.00. Sounds like a no brainer to me. Yamaha 663 and Emotiva a little more. Don't fall for the garbage you will get here that an amp will not make a difference. There are only a very few receivers out there that actually put out the power as their specs say. Sony is one of the worst. The amps are a different story, at least they come close to their stated power. You can also buy a lot of this equipment on-line, try it out in your home and return what you don't like. You be sure and buy from a reputable dealer with good return policies that don't hit you with some off the wall restocking fees.

+1 on the amp + receiver suggestion. I have a HK AVR 247 and a UPA-7. Total investment = $803!

I upgraded from an 8 year old HK AVR 520 that has ample power but I wasn't prepared for the massive difference the amp has made to the sound. The best thing about it is you won't have to shop for power when you are looking for an upgrade in your pre/pro.

Too bad Harman doesn't make the equivalent of the 354 without the amp section. (or do they?)
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post #37 of 49
1/5/09 at 4:50am
(WARNING: Thread jack.)

I'm very interested in this pre/pro vs receiver debate/discussion.

While for someone who has embraced the home theater hobby a pre/pro & amp setup may be/is a better choice, I can't imagine it is the right thing to push a newbie toward. A newbie MIGHT get into the lifestyle and want to upgrade to more powerful amps and speakers to be driven by them, or they might be very happy for many years with a 5.1 system with 35Wpc (assuming a powered sub). Why confuse them with more choices and variables?

With regard to more powerful amps: My impression is that bigger amps are needed to drive bigger speakers are needed to fill bigger rooms. Room size drives speaker size drives amp power. If a person has a 12x15 room, I can't imagine needing more than 50Wpc to drive speakers big enough to produce over 100dB in the room. A nice set of mini-monitors coupled with a subwoofer would be plenty of juice.

Someone mentioned that since they have separate amps they can buy a cheapish receiver to get the processing they need and still have the amp power. My impression is also that more features = more $$$ = more power. So if you have fairly sophisticated processing and connection needs/wants, you are likely to be buying receivers with about 100Wpc anyway. In that kind of scenario are separate amps still worthwhile?

Now, if your connection needs are modest, but your power needs are large, then I see separates as a good choice. You have a big room to fill, big speakers to drive, and don't need multi-zone, RS-232, blahbitty blah, feature list. Also, if you're into the hobby/lifestyle I could see a person liking a certain speaker & amp combo and wanting to keep that stable while changing out the processor side - but I think that person is not going to be asking here about first receiver choices.

To the original poster. Don't let people overcomplicate your decision. Try to understand the features available and what you want. Some of the receivers you've listed provide multi-zone support, i.e. can drive another set of speakers in another part of the house, e.g. in a sun room. Do you want that? If not, do you still want to pay for it because of other features the receivers offer (fancier video processing, MultEQ XT)? You may very well find that after analyzing your room/speaker, connectivity, and processing needs you would be happier with a much less expensive receiver than you were prepared to pay for. Be glad and pour that money into nicer speakers, a subwoofer, or separate amps if you need the power.

-Jasen.
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post #38 of 49
1/5/09 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

(WARNING: Thread jack.)

I'm very interested in this pre/pro vs receiver debate/discussion.

While for someone who has embraced the home theater hobby a pre/pro & amp setup may be/is a better choice, I can't imagine it is the right thing to push a newbie toward. A newbie MIGHT get into the lifestyle and want to upgrade to more powerful amps and speakers to be driven by them, or they might be very happy for many years with a 5.1 system with 35Wpc (assuming a powered sub). Why confuse them with more choices and variables?

With regard to more powerful amps: My impression is that bigger amps are needed to drive bigger speakers are needed to fill bigger rooms. Room size drives speaker size drives amp power. If a person has a 12x15 room, I can't imagine needing more than 50Wpc to drive speakers big enough to produce over 100dB in the room. A nice set of mini-monitors coupled with a subwoofer would be plenty of juice.

Someone mentioned that since they have separate amps they can buy a cheapish receiver to get the processing they need and still have the amp power. My impression is also that more features = more $$$ = more power. So if you have fairly sophisticated processing and connection needs/wants, you are likely to be buying receivers with about 100Wpc anyway. In that kind of scenario are separate amps still worthwhile?

Now, if your connection needs are modest, but your power needs are large, then I see separates as a good choice. You have a big room to fill, big speakers to drive, and don't need multi-zone, RS-232, blahbitty blah, feature list. Also, if you're into the hobby/lifestyle I could see a person liking a certain speaker & amp combo and wanting to keep that stable while changing out the processor side - but I think that person is not going to be asking here about first receiver choices.

To the original poster. Don't let people overcomplicate your decision. Try to understand the features available and what you want. Some of the receivers you've listed provide multi-zone support, i.e. can drive another set of speakers in another part of the house, e.g. in a sun room. Do you want that? If not, do you still want to pay for it because of other features the receivers offer (fancier video processing, MultEQ XT)? You may very well find that after analyzing your room/speaker, connectivity, and processing needs you would be happier with a much less expensive receiver than you were prepared to pay for. Be glad and pour that money into nicer speakers, a subwoofer, or separate amps if you need the power.

-Jasen.

Simple, because you are buying the amp just because it has more "true power". An amp has power reserves for when a scene in a movie soundtrack needs that extra "oomp" that a 35 watt or even 100 watt can't provide. As I have stated along with others here very few receivers provide the power they claim. Most if not all are tested with only one or 2 channels drivens. Now look at specs for amps and they will actually drive all channels driven at least close to what the specs are given. The only receivers I'm aware of that deliver on their true specs are the H/K's. But who wants to put up with their Q/C issues they seems to be having at this time. Also I'm sure no one here wants to continue to be a newbie. So why waste money on just a receiver to begin with.
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post #39 of 49
1/5/09 at 6:06am
jasen....quite frankly, there are plenty of bookshelf and mini-monitors that are much harder to drive than "large" speakers. Separates aren't really difficult to set up. More connections between the pre-pro to the amp, yes. Difficult, no!

Different rooms require different needs, too. A room with lots of reflective surfaces (hardwood floors, high ceilings, lots of glass) will have different requirements than a room with carpet, heavy upholstered furniture, etc.

Certainly, if your seating area is all very compact, you're sitting near the speakers (front and rear) will require less than a seating area where the speakers are further away (which in turn give a more spacious sound).

Point being, there are lots of factors that will determine what you need.

I've had both separates and high end AVRs. While the gap is very, very close between a high end AVR and separates (and closing), someone mentioned the one thing that can't be accounted for by using separates. That is, when new codecs or connection schemes come around, with separates, you only have to replace the pre-pro, not the entire system (including amp).

It's next to impossibly to say that 50W, 100W, 200W is enough power. There are so many other variables involved that it's impossible to say when "enough is enough".
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post #40 of 49
1/5/09 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

As I have stated along with others here very few receivers provide the power they claim.
...
Now look at specs for amps and they will actually drive all channels driven at least close to what the specs are given. The only receivers I'm aware of that deliver on their true specs are the H/K's. But who wants to put up with their Q/C issues they seems to be having at this time.

As an H/K owner I guess I'm just unaware of how badly rated other receivers are. I've never had problems with too little power. Perhaps it is more widespread than I realize.

It seems to me one would want to start with finding out what kind of space the newbie has to fill and work from there rather than jumping right to recommending separates.

Quote:


Also I'm sure no one here wants to continue to be a newbie. So why waste money on just a receiver to begin with.

Because many receivers are perfectly adequate for many people's needs. Would you encourage a new driver to buy a BMW, or just to get reliable transportation (a used Honda?). Obviously, if a person is asking around here, they are beyond the point of wandering into Circuit City and buying whatever the salesman gives them. But I don't think they need to be thrust into the world of separates.

- Jasen.
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post #41 of 49
1/5/09 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

jasen....quite frankly, there are plenty of bookshelf and mini-monitors that are much harder to drive than "large" speakers.

True. Speaker efficiency is not tied to size, sorry.

Quote:
Separates aren't really difficult to set up. More connections between the pre-pro to the amp, yes. Difficult, no!

But _BUYING_ separates creates another whole set of components and manufacturers to choose from. The poor newbie is already confused by HDMI, TrueHD, Audessey, YPAO, multi-zone, Watts vs Watts per channel, THD, etc., etc.

Quote:
Different rooms require different needs, too. A room with lots of reflective surfaces (hardwood floors, high ceilings, lots of glass) will have different requirements than a room with carpet, heavy upholstered furniture, etc.

None of which is known about the original poster - or many other posters I've seen pre-outs recommended to.

Quote:
I've had both separates and high end AVRs. While the gap is very, very close between a high end AVR and separates (and closing), someone mentioned the one thing that can't be accounted for by using separates. That is, when new codecs or connection schemes come around, with separates, you only have to replace the pre-pro, not the entire system (including amp).

Again, for a newbie just starting out, if the gap is that close why not just recommend the simplest, most newbie-proof solution? My limited experience has shown that good pre-pros cost as much as good receivers - and people have noted they buy receivers and just use them as pre-pros.

Quote:
It's next to impossibly to say that 50W, 100W, 200W is enough power. There are so many other variables involved that it's impossible to say when "enough is enough".

Right. And I don't think there's enough known about the original poster's situation to make any kind of power decision. I think he mentioned he wants TrueHD and otherwise is feeling a bit overwhelmed by the number of choices and variables involved in this decision. Tossing separates into the mix seems counter-productive.

To get back to my original premise: The blanket recommendation to "make sure" a receiver has pre-outs because the person asking "might" need or want separate amplifiers seems like a disservice to newbies coming in and trying to figure out this home theater craziness.

This forum has a sticky FAQ thread that explains many of the terms and technologies in the AVR world. I wonder if there shouldn't be a "How to pick your first receiver" sticky, too.


- Jasen.
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post #42 of 49
1/5/09 at 10:29am
the MSRP is down to $999 now and it is an excellent sounding unit. Only 3 HDMI inputs though, but it does have 2 outputs (not sure if you need that). From a sound quality perspective it blew the doors off of my old Denon 3802.
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post #43 of 49
1/5/09 at 10:51am
Take a look at the Marantz SR6003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the MSRP is down to $999 now and it is an excellent sounding unit. Only 3 HDMI inputs though, but it does have 2 outputs (not sure if you need that). From a sound quality perspective it blew the doors off of my old Denon 3802.


Influence,

Could you tell us a little more about your experience with the MarantzSR6003?
I could find very little in expert reviews. Two hdmi output for me is a valuable feature, but sound is the most important. Did you match it with a PS3 to see how the DD/DTS_HD formats sound????
I was considering denon3808 (1 hdmi output),although a little pricier. Thanks.
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post #44 of 49
1/5/09 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj79 View Post

Reading some reviews.. is this anything to be worried about???

The bad: Main remote isn't intuitive, although included simpler remote can be used; user interface could use some tweaks; graphical user interface crashed a few times; poor 1080i deinterlacing; not Sirius-ready.

don't concern yourself with the Denon remote. The receivers are great.
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post #45 of 49
1/5/09 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj79 View Post

Well i tried to narrow it down as much as i could.. so what are you guys thinking


im really liking the price on the onkyo 806 @ $600 shipped

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR806...0498637&sr=1-6

But i really like over all these 2 , both right around 1000

onkyo SR876

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR876...498637&sr=1-18


Denon 2809

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR2809C...02868&sr=1-22#

Denon 3808

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-3808...502868&sr=1-14

Onkyo = poor quality control, poor customer service and poor funtionality. Make usure you buy a service agreement
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post #46 of 49
1/5/09 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by john barlow View Post

Onkyo = poor quality control, poor customer service and poor funtionality. Make usure you buy a service agreement

I'm with you on the poor qc and customer service with Onkyo, but I've experienced good functionality with their receivers.

They seem to be one manufacturer that has gotten HDMI switching right - at least with my equipment.

Another factor is Onkyo's 2 year warranty which negates needing a service agreement. With things changing so fast, I'd doubt many people would keep a receiver more than 2 years.
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post #47 of 49
1/27/13 at 10:01am
The original post was about best sounding. I think that, if driven within the power envelope provided by the receiver, you will not hear any audible differences. Rather you will find at the price point of around 1k that features and convenience will dominate your experience. Since there are no reliable reliability records kept on these things there's no reason to think that one brand will outlast another. The worst experience I ever had (in 40 years of audiophilia) was with Pioneer Elite equipment I bought - every single component from the preamp to the amp to the tuner to the cd player had to be repaired over a ten year span. I have two cheap Sony receivers now, both over 12 years old, still going strong. So, you need to go to a store where you can actually use the equipment if you really want to get "the best". Honestly, though reading the manuals should give you some idea of how to set up whatever you buy and how user friendly you'll find it. Finally, my advice is to keep researching features until you absolutely know what you want in the receiver particularly in terms of connectivity - internet radio, apple air play, etc. That's really the key element in these boxes these days.
Rgrds-Ross
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post #48 of 49
1/27/13 at 1:20pm
Uh, maybe you should "research" what year this thread started. I'm pretty sure sure the OP has solved his dilemma.
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post #49 of 49
1/27/13 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross View Post

The original post was about best sounding. I think that, if driven within the power envelope provided by the receiver, you will not hear any audible differences. Rather you will find at the price point of around 1k that features and convenience will dominate your experience. Since there are no reliable reliability records kept on these things there's no reason to think that one brand will outlast another. The worst experience I ever had (in 40 years of audiophilia) was with Pioneer Elite equipment I bought - every single component from the preamp to the amp to the tuner to the cd player had to be repaired over a ten year span. I have two cheap Sony receivers now, both over 12 years old, still going strong. So, you need to go to a store where you can actually use the equipment if you really want to get "the best". Honestly, though reading the manuals should give you some idea of how to set up whatever you buy and how user friendly you'll find it. Finally, my advice is to keep researching features until you absolutely know what you want in the receiver particularly in terms of connectivity - internet radio, apple air play, etc. That's really the key element in these boxes these days.
Rgrds-Ross

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

Uh, maybe you should "research" what year this thread started. I'm pretty sure sure the OP has solved his dilemma.

I am also pretty sure that this forum has identified problematic brands in the past 4 years.

What MANUAL. Today's manuals are either online or or useless if in print.
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