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**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 41

post #1201 of 3142
Anyone know if there is a sale going on soon? I just demo'd my speakers and the guy wants to buy them!! So I'm looking to buy soon.
post #1202 of 3142
I hope they do so I can get the e56ci. 450 is too much in my opinion
post #1203 of 3142
Maybe a super bowl sale. I figured they'd do a new years sale, but I was wrong. $450 is a little pricey I think. $325-350 would be a little closer if you ask me

The 3009 & 818 look nice, but I'm definitely not looking to spend more on my avr than my speakers. Not even half. Looking about $350 & below. I'll add an amp later. I don't need networking or any other bs. I wish they'd just make a 150+.watt 7.1/7.2.avr without all the networking & stuff. So many people out there have streaming devices already.

I actually was just bidding on a 1712.on ebay from $165 to $250...and then this dumb ass blocked my bids in the last 10 mins & I lost. Sounds pretty darn fishy to me & immediately reminded me why I don't use Ebay.
post #1204 of 3142
Like you two I wish they would do another one, I need one more sub more to finish the 7.2 setup!
post #1205 of 3142
I'm debating the CHT 18.1 or Empire..... Though Epik looks to be having some troubles on their thread right now.
post #1206 of 3142
DIY your sub for cheaper than those and the DIY will crush them. Personal experience. I am not a carpenter at all and I pulled off the THT build. That thing rocks my entire house literally.
post #1207 of 3142
Yeah but I need that finish to be really nice looking. Not sure how hard vinyl is to do, but I definitely know I wouldn't be able to do a piano black without a ton of money spent on errors lol. Those boxes from PartsExpress look nice that are gloss black. Come in 2cuft and 3cuft, but supposedly the grill is a little shallow and a sub with a good amount of xmax/xmech will hit the grill. Bad design. I guess you could make a baffle behind it that's slightly smaller and recess it....hm. It's a bit pricey though for just a box that's gloss black and with a grill (like $220-$235). What's the THT build btw? I'll try searching, but if you could link it that'd be even better

I definitely wouldn't mind just buying a Crown XLS amp or something and adding my own sub. Finishing is my biggest issue..........with the sub box that is! eek.giftongue.gif

I wish A4L would lower their price on the Denon 1712! They had it for $240 and $260 not even a month ago and now it's gone up (weird) to $309+shipping. The 3312 looks mighty nice, but the 135watts over the 90watts isn't a big deal so I think money would be better spent on a emotiva xpa-2 or something like that.
post #1208 of 3142
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

DIY your sub for cheaper than those and the DIY will crush them. Personal experience. I am not a carpenter at all and I pulled off the THT build. That thing rocks my entire house literally.


+1
post #1209 of 3142
Emotiva amps are very nice! They do not run hot at all either like you think an amp would.
Here is the THT build info I think that there is somebody on the forums that did it in piano black too. He shows his process. Also, you could wrap it in velvet. That are many different finishes people have done. Also with the THT build you do not need a lot of power. before I connected my ep2000 to it, I was only running 100w to it and it sounded great.
Edited by Pain Infliction - 1/17/13 at 7:19am
post #1210 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

+1

I know you have gotten a lot of comments about your sig but I think it was......up, down, up, down, B, A, B, A, select, start
post #1211 of 3142
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

+1

I know you have gotten a lot of comments about your sig but I think it was......up, down, up, down, B, A, B, A, select, start

Yeah, I got some fond memories crankin with my brother when we were young on the ole NES.

There many variations ions apparently.... I used konami codes on the original contra and Mortal combat at some point. Only later when folks asked me about it did I find out it was used in a bunch of games and slight variations to some.

The official one(According to Wiki):



Cheers!
Nicholas
post #1212 of 3142
oh I didn't know that. I wish I knew that as a kid because i was always trying to get codes for games. Then the game genie came out and that ruined it all haha.
post #1213 of 3142
Yea, I'm definitely looking forward to a sale. Hopefully soon!!
post #1214 of 3142
Might have to wait it out until July 4th. Seems like that's the other sale they had last year. You all might try to start a list or something and if they get enough people buying they might throw you a 10% discount or something

Anyone have experience with the 3310 or any Denon AVR's?

Denon 3310 w/ no warranty (local) = $380
Denon 1712 w/ 1 yr warranty (A4L) = $335

What do you all think? The 3310 is a local guy that's on here and Audioholics. I just dont want anything to fall apart on it in a few months and be SOL. I don't need any networking, but I cant seem to find any better AVR's for the price out there. The Onkyo's around $350 are about the same as the Denon's, but don't feature MultEQ XT
post #1215 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

Might have to wait it out until July 4th. Seems like that's the other sale they had last year. You all might try to start a list or something and if they get enough people buying they might throw you a 10% discount or something

Anyone have experience with the 3310 or any Denon AVR's?

Denon 3310 w/ no warranty (local) = $380
Denon 1712 w/ 1 yr warranty (A4L) = $335

What do you all think? The 3310 is a local guy that's on here and Audioholics. I just dont want anything to fall apart on it in a few months and be SOL. I don't need any networking, but I cant seem to find any better AVR's for the price out there. The Onkyo's around $350 are about the same as the Denon's, but don't feature MultEQ XT

I would stick with Denon, get a receiver with Audyssey and ideally pre-outs so you can add on separates later. That said I would go for the Denon 3310, you won't get something with pre-outs unless you spend $430, and this way you have some future proofing. I would wager if the receiver has run well so far, it will probably keep working well.
post #1216 of 3142
Well he's actually got 2 of the 3310's and said if anything happens within the first year or so he'll refund me like $100 OR sell me the other 3310 he has for like $300. Seems like a good guy from when I've talked to him. Has TONS of higher end equipment (salon2's, 201/2's, 802D's, etc) so I think he knows how to take care of his equipment properly.

That's a good idea about the pre-outs though. I don't need them now, but I'd like to add a 3 channel amp down the road since my room is larger than most. Now I need to pick up the TV stand and sub. I think I'm going to go with that 74" Legends Downtown Loft stand as it'll fit the e56ci and should fit all AV equipment (shelves are close at 17.25" wide, but should hold AVR's as most are right at 17" lol). Just need to keep it well ventilated in there. Just saw that the 3310 only has MultEQ though, unlike the 17xx that has MultEQ XT where it EQ's the sub. That's a bummer. I'll have a sub way before I put an amp to the front 3 or 2 channels
post #1217 of 3142
There are inexpensive ways of tuning a sub unless you count time. Time to some people is more valuable than the money they spend.
post #1218 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

Well he's actually got 2 of the 3310's and said if anything happens within the first year or so he'll refund me like $100 OR sell me the other 3310 he has for like $300. Seems like a good guy from when I've talked to him. Has TONS of higher end equipment (salon2's, 201/2's, 802D's, etc) so I think he knows how to take care of his equipment properly.

That's a good idea about the pre-outs though. I don't need them now, but I'd like to add a 3 channel amp down the road since my room is larger than most. Now I need to pick up the TV stand and sub. I think I'm going to go with that 74" Legends Downtown Loft stand as it'll fit the e56ci and should fit all AV equipment (shelves are close at 17.25" wide, but should hold AVR's as most are right at 17" lol). Just need to keep it well ventilated in there. Just saw that the 3310 only has MultEQ though, unlike the 17xx that has MultEQ XT where it EQ's the sub. That's a bummer. I'll have a sub way before I put an amp to the front 3 or 2 channels

I had a 3310 a couple years back. It was a real nice receiver. I'd be nervous about no warranty though for any product.
post #1219 of 3142
frown.gif

Well EMP gang, it was fun while it lasted. I plan on returning my speakers.

First, let me say the 55Ti towers, ES1010 sub, E56ci center and E55 wi surrounds were an outstanding deal. I got these on BF and don't think others systems come this close to the features/specs it offers.

Second, I gave these puppies a real good listen throwing everything I had at it. It is great for a good HT set-up. Good volume, incredible bass.

Musically it just fell flat. High cymbals and percussion was shockingly muted, voices were hidden. It really felt that I was listening with a towel over my head. Settings on my Pioneer SC-1222K receiver was with zero EQ and room correction. It certainly does wake up a bit on MCACC Room EQ setings but still it didn't have the air or high freq sizzle and decay I was look for.

Thinking it was my receiver, I took the 55Tis over to my friends house. We did A/B comparison to his older Infinity and B&W CDM-7NT on his Yammy receiver. No comparison.

I believe another person on this forum or elsewhere had issues with his speakers. Perhaps we got a bad batch? I've checked polarity, listening positions relative to wall, different toe-in angles, you name it i did it. It goes to show how much I desparately wanted to keep this system.

I spoke to Brian and he admitted the mids/highs are a bit laid back compared to other speakers. But it's not to my taste.

Honestly, if it even gave 50% of the high freq performance of other speakers I listened to, I would have kept them!

I've asked EMP when the speakers are returned back to perhaps take a look into my speakers and see if there was a wiring issue. If so, i may consider keeping them and getting another pair. If everything turns out to be normal, I think EMP should maybe consider getting tweeters retrofitted for their next impression line speaker.

Still, I think for HT purposes, it is a good buy.
post #1220 of 3142
While my e5ti mini towers are clearly better for HT than music, IMHO...they are aound pretty damn good. Before I placed them with my theater system, I had them in a bedroom 2.1 set up and did an A/B comparison with my Def tech SM450s and Polk M40. They clearly were the best of the three and I felt, really produced excellent midrange and highs, but perhaps were a little weak in the bass area.
Edited by Elihawk - 1/22/13 at 12:27pm
post #1221 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkim2001 View Post

frown.gif

Well EMP gang, it was fun while it lasted. I plan on returning my speakers.

First, let me say the 55Ti towers, ES1010 sub, E56ci center and E55 wi surrounds were an outstanding deal. I got these on BF and don't think others systems come this close to the features/specs it offers.

Second, I gave these puppies a real good listen throwing everything I had at it. It is great for a good HT set-up. Good volume, incredible bass.

Musically it just fell flat. High cymbals and percussion was shockingly muted, voices were hidden. It really felt that I was listening with a towel over my head. Settings on my Pioneer SC-1222K receiver was with zero EQ and room correction. It certainly does wake up a bit on MCACC Room EQ setings but still it didn't have the air or high freq sizzle and decay I was look for.

Thinking it was my receiver, I took the 55Tis over to my friends house. We did A/B comparison to his older Infinity and B&W CDM-7NT on his Yammy receiver. No comparison.

I believe another person on this forum or elsewhere had issues with his speakers. Perhaps we got a bad batch? I've checked polarity, listening positions relative to wall, different toe-in angles, you name it i did it. It goes to show how much I desparately wanted to keep this system.

I spoke to Brian and he admitted the mids/highs are a bit laid back compared to other speakers. But it's not to my taste.

Honestly, if it even gave 50% of the high freq performance of other speakers I listened to, I would have kept them!

I've asked EMP when the speakers are returned back to perhaps take a look into my speakers and see if there was a wiring issue. If so, i may consider keeping them and getting another pair. If everything turns out to be normal, I think EMP should maybe consider getting tweeters retrofitted for their next impression line speaker.

Still, I think for HT purposes, it is a good buy.

I will agree with the highs being a lot more laid back than the average. My room is very reflective. That's why I actually got these speakers. It definitely took some eq'ing with Audyssey to open them up & make them sing. I know if I set my receiver to pure audio, they sound very neutral. It definitely is a very laid back sound. Hopefuly you can find what you are looking for. Maybe check out the Infinity Primus line(if you are looking to stay in this price range). If I had more money to spend, I would have gotten the Aperion's or Ascend's.
post #1222 of 3142
I am sorry for your disapointment with EMP. I think my EMP speakers are great, and have more mid and high definition than my Polk A6 center that I sold. These towers are a tad weak on bass, which I attempt to compensate for with a high subwoofer crossover of 120Hz, but otherwise am happy. The sound for what you pay for is incredible, having to spend a LOT more money to get any significant improvement in sound.
post #1223 of 3142
Not discounting anyone's opinion, but I've just never understood how someone can think a speaker is good for HT and not for music and vice versa. Obviously, there's differences in the two, but movies are filled with music and all kinds of dynamics. It just doesn't make sense to me how a speaker can be great for one and not at least moderately good for the other. That said, sorry for your bad luck. I can't get enough of my EMP!
post #1224 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkim2001 View Post

frown.gif

Well EMP gang, it was fun while it lasted. I plan on returning my speakers.

First, let me say the 55Ti towers, ES1010 sub, E56ci center and E55 wi surrounds were an outstanding deal. I got these on BF and don't think others systems come this close to the features/specs it offers.

Second, I gave these puppies a real good listen throwing everything I had at it. It is great for a good HT set-up. Good volume, incredible bass.

Musically it just fell flat. High cymbals and percussion was shockingly muted, voices were hidden. It really felt that I was listening with a towel over my head. Settings on my Pioneer SC-1222K receiver was with zero EQ and room correction. It certainly does wake up a bit on MCACC Room EQ setings but still it didn't have the air or high freq sizzle and decay I was look for.

Thinking it was my receiver, I took the 55Tis over to my friends house. We did A/B comparison to his older Infinity and B&W CDM-7NT on his Yammy receiver. No comparison.

I believe another person on this forum or elsewhere had issues with his speakers. Perhaps we got a bad batch? I've checked polarity, listening positions relative to wall, different toe-in angles, you name it i did it. It goes to show how much I desparately wanted to keep this system.

I spoke to Brian and he admitted the mids/highs are a bit laid back compared to other speakers. But it's not to my taste.

Honestly, if it even gave 50% of the high freq performance of other speakers I listened to, I would have kept them!

I've asked EMP when the speakers are returned back to perhaps take a look into my speakers and see if there was a wiring issue. If so, i may consider keeping them and getting another pair. If everything turns out to be normal, I think EMP should maybe consider getting tweeters retrofitted for their next impression line speaker.

Still, I think for HT purposes, it is a good buy.

That's a pretty interesting take on these! I don't think I've seen one review say the midrange was "hidden". That sounds like a serious room or setup issue to me. There are multiple members, not including Gene (Audioholics mod) that have heard TOOONS of speakers and they say the midrange is spot on with the e55ti's. Let me say though that all that matters is what YOU hear and how YOUR ears perceive the sound. I have no affiliation with EMP and, not to sound like a dick, but I don't really care what speakers you have lol....as long as you end up happy with the sound that's all that matters. I would just hate to see you spend 2x+ for the same level of midrange/lower treble capabilities. I agree in that the tweeter should be a db or so higher, but that would be very close to inaudible most of the time. Sounds like you're definitely after a "brighter" top end type of speaker though. You might check out the Focal 814v's at A4L. I've heard the polyglass line multiple times and it strikes me as very forward. I would say HTD speakers, but I've seen a few people say they have more of a laid back sound for the horn (level 3) so that might not be good for you.

I've never had the chance to use MCACC, but it seems like many on here are much more fond of Audyssey. I wonder if MCACC isn't doing anything for you or is somehow getting something wrong. Have you check the settings after EQ? Are the "changable" after MCACC does it's thing?

Also, just because a speaker isn't as bright on that top end doesn't mean you're necessarily "missing" information. It can definitely be added also!

Have you checked all the drivers to make sure they're all working correctly? You don't have settings on the Pio altered or anything (bass/treble crap on the front of most AVR's)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEastSide View Post

Not discounting anyone's opinion, but I've just never understood how someone can think a speaker is good for HT and not for music and vice versa. Obviously, there's differences in the two, but movies are filled with music and all kinds of dynamics. It just doesn't make sense to me how a speaker can be great for one and not at least moderately good for the other. That said, sorry for your bad luck. I can't get enough of my EMP!

Lol I was going to post this same general idea/question. I hate that saying. A frequency is a frequency. It's reproduced at a decibel in which it's told to. Sure that's a SUPER oversimplified version, but you know what I mean. I also don't get how people say brighter speakers are for movies and more laid back ("flat") speakers are for music. The main goal is to reproduce the source accurately, with low distortion, etc. Peoples ears are certainly different, but things aren't any different from movies to music.
post #1225 of 3142
I would say there is a vast difference between the sound requirements of a HT speaker and one delivering music. HT speakers have- my guess- 80% of their tonal output mostly in the narrow band of human speech and sound effects - certainly the center channel! Again my crummy opinion but I say it takes 5 times the HT speaker quality to reproduce music- at least. Crummy HTIB speakers can do a credible job of reproducing the movie effects, but would be miserable for music. Music reproduction, on the other hand, has the entire frequency range to reproduce- think of a symphony with deep bass kettle drums and high piccalo's. Music, when in a movie, is itself a sound effect and temporary, not the main reason for it. Listening to a music CD however has 100% of the experience is music. Subwoofers are not even needed in music reproduction- traditionalists hate them for music. The entire existance of subwoofers is for home theater. Not trying to raise controversy, just expressing an opinion.smile.gif
post #1226 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

That's a pretty interesting take on these! I don't think I've seen one review say the midrange was "hidden". That sounds like a serious room or setup issue to me. There are multiple members, not including Gene (Audioholics mod) that have heard TOOONS of speakers and they say the midrange is spot on with the e55ti's. Let me say though that all that matters is what YOU hear and how YOUR ears perceive the sound. I have no affiliation with EMP and, not to sound like a dick, but I don't really care what speakers you have lol....as long as you end up happy with the sound that's all that matters. I would just hate to see you spend 2x+ for the same level of midrange/lower treble capabilities. I agree in that the tweeter should be a db or so higher, but that would be very close to inaudible most of the time. Sounds like you're definitely after a "brighter" top end type of speaker though. You might check out the Focal 814v's at A4L. I've heard the polyglass line multiple times and it strikes me as very forward. I would say HTD speakers, but I've seen a few people say they have more of a laid back sound for the horn (level 3) so that might not be good for you.

I've never had the chance to use MCACC, but it seems like many on here are much more fond of Audyssey. I wonder if MCACC isn't doing anything for you or is somehow getting something wrong. Have you check the settings after EQ? Are the "changable" after MCACC does it's thing?

Also, just because a speaker isn't as bright on that top end doesn't mean you're necessarily "missing" information. It can definitely be added also!

Have you checked all the drivers to make sure they're all working correctly? You don't have settings on the Pio altered or anything (bass/treble crap on the front of most AVR's)?
Lol I was going to post this same general idea/question. I hate that saying. A frequency is a frequency. It's reproduced at a decibel in which it's told to. Sure that's a SUPER oversimplified version, but you know what I mean. I also don't get how people say brighter speakers are for movies and more laid back ("flat") speakers are for music. The main goal is to reproduce the source accurately, with low distortion, etc. Peoples ears are certainly different, but things aren't any different from movies to music.

I'm currently playing Lego Lord of the Rings on my XBox360 and while this is a video game, I've got this thing jammin' right now, with huge orchestral arrangements just crashing from my setup and I don't feel like I'm missing a single detail, simply amazing. So these speakers are good for videogames with music, but not music-music... lol. That's why I just never get the argument between different types of content. Really, I'm just poking a little fun. If they don't sound good to him, they don't sound good to him. I do wonder, though, sometimes, if it's partially a mental thing.

As for the Focal 814, I did not find my set forward at all, I couldn't detect anything I could consider bright or enhanced treble. What I did notice was the bass was definitely stronger on the Focal than the EMP. However, I had those Focal set up in a small and more enclosed area. That may have made them seem more boomy than they really are. If he doesn't care for the EMP, I can't see him caring for the 814s. I think they're fairly comparable speakers, minus the inflated price tag that the 814s used to sell for.

At any rate, it could be possible (although, I suspect, highly unlikely) that he got a bad pair of speakers. Perhaps, it's just not the sound he's looking for, or a combination of other variables that he just couldn't get them sounding right.
post #1227 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by cme4brain View Post

I would say there is a vast difference between the sound requirements of a HT speaker and one delivering music. HT speakers have- my guess- 80% of their tonal output mostly in the narrow band of human speech and sound effects - certainly the center channel! Again my crummy opinion but I say it takes 5 times the HT speaker quality to reproduce music- at least. Crummy HTIB speakers can do a credible job of reproducing the movie effects, but would be miserable for music. Music reproduction, on the other hand, has the entire frequency range to reproduce- think of a symphony with deep bass kettle drums and high piccalo's. Music, when in a movie, is itself a sound effect and temporary, not the main reason for it. Listening to a music CD however has 100% of the experience is music. Subwoofers are not even needed in music reproduction- traditionalists hate them for music. The entire existance of subwoofers is for home theater. Not trying to raise controversy, just expressing an opinion.smile.gif

I see what you're saying. I'm not disagreeing, because I think we're talking about the same thing...but kinda characteristics of it. I don't know how to word it. I believe what you're saying is that most people want music to be accurate and for movies to have impact/dynamics throughout the movie...yes?

I mean you could easily say that a music speaker is usually set up in 2.0 and most of the time HT is setup with a center so your 2.0 setup would for one need better dispersion characteristics. But who would NOT want that for a HT speaker? You could also say that a music speaker has more bass below 70-80hz and it can be more of a full range speaker, but if your speaker doesn't play down into the 20's...you could still be missing quite a bit of info. And if it's not playing it at the same spl or slightly higher throughout the bandwidth then it's really not useable. That's not even taking distortion characteristics, power compression, your tune, etc. I don't know of a single thing for a HT speaker I would NOT want for a music setup and vice versa. That's just my mind mind so I'm open to discussion on this kind of stuff because I really like hearing outside opinions.

Sound effects/Musical soundtracks might not be in a movie as much as the vocal range, but it can be very close or more in lots of movies. There isn't a smaller range of frequencies movie producers use. They can and do still use the useable bandwidth (20-20kHz..give or take).

My main point is that 99.9% of people want a speaker that can reproduce the source accurately. Let me say that everyone's ears are different and everyone will not have the same opinion about each speaker, that's what makes choosing speakers such a hard thing without hearing them. Personal preference of sound, room acoustics, tune, etc will play the largest part in speaker choice





Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEastSide View Post

I'm currently playing Lego Lord of the Rings on my XBox360 and while this is a video game, I've got this thing jammin' right now, with huge orchestral arrangements just crashing from my setup and I don't feel like I'm missing a single detail, simply amazing. So these speakers are good for videogames with music, but not music-music... lol. That's why I just never get the argument between different types of content. Really, I'm just poking a little fun. If they don't sound good to him, they don't sound good to him. I do wonder, though, sometimes, if it's partially a mental thing.

As for the Focal 814, I did not find my set forward at all, I couldn't detect anything I could consider bright or enhanced treble. What I did notice was the bass was definitely stronger on the Focal than the EMP. However, I had those Focal set up in a small and more enclosed area. That may have made them seem more boomy than they really are. If he doesn't care for the EMP, I can't see him caring for the 814s. I think they're fairly comparable speakers, minus the inflated price tag that the 814s used to sell for.

At any rate, it could be possible (although, I suspect, highly unlikely) that he got a bad pair of speakers. Perhaps, it's just not the sound he's looking for, or a combination of other variables that he just couldn't get them sounding right.

So you're saying you do not like these speakers for your music listening? Why not? Just wondering
post #1228 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

That's a pretty interesting take on these! I don't think I've seen one review say the midrange was "hidden". That sounds like a serious room or setup issue to me. There are multiple members, not including Gene (Audioholics mod) that have heard TOOONS of speakers and they say the midrange is spot on with the e55ti's. Let me say though that all that matters is what YOU hear and how YOUR ears perceive the sound. I have no affiliation with EMP and, not to sound like a dick, but I don't really care what speakers you have lol....as long as you end up happy with the sound that's all that matters. I would just hate to see you spend 2x+ for the same level of midrange/lower treble capabilities. I agree in that the tweeter should be a db or so higher, but that would be very close to inaudible most of the time. Sounds like you're definitely after a "brighter" top end type of speaker though. You might check out the Focal 814v's at A4L. I've heard the polyglass line multiple times and it strikes me as very forward. I would say HTD speakers, but I've seen a few people say they have more of a laid back sound for the horn (level 3) so that might not be good for you.

I've never had the chance to use MCACC, but it seems like many on here are much more fond of Audyssey. I wonder if MCACC isn't doing anything for you or is somehow getting something wrong. Have you check the settings after EQ? Are the "changable" after MCACC does it's thing?

Also, just because a speaker isn't as bright on that top end doesn't mean you're necessarily "missing" information. It can definitely be added also!

Have you checked all the drivers to make sure they're all working correctly? You don't have settings on the Pio altered or anything (bass/treble crap on the front of most AVR's)?
Lol I was going to post this same general idea/question. I hate that saying. A frequency is a frequency. It's reproduced at a decibel in which it's told to. Sure that's a SUPER oversimplified version, but you know what I mean. I also don't get how people say brighter speakers are for movies and more laid back ("flat") speakers are for music. The main goal is to reproduce the source accurately, with low distortion, etc. Peoples ears are certainly different, but things aren't any different from movies to music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cme4brain View Post

I would say there is a vast difference between the sound requirements of a HT speaker and one delivering music. HT speakers have- my guess- 80% of their tonal output mostly in the narrow band of human speech and sound effects - certainly the center channel! Again my crummy opinion but I say it takes 5 times the HT speaker quality to reproduce music- at least. Crummy HTIB speakers can do a credible job of reproducing the movie effects, but would be miserable for music. Music reproduction, on the other hand, has the entire frequency range to reproduce- think of a symphony with deep bass kettle drums and high piccalo's. Music, when in a movie, is itself a sound effect and temporary, not the main reason for it. Listening to a music CD however has 100% of the experience is music. Subwoofers are not even needed in music reproduction- traditionalists hate them for music. The entire existance of subwoofers is for home theater. Not trying to raise controversy, just expressing an opinion.smile.gif

HI everyone. Speakers certainly not due to a room issue or receiver issue. Speakers sounded the same with both receivers. I even reset the Pioneer to ensure all MCACC data was deleted and again placed speakers on pure direct mode.

I agree with CME4BRAIN and stick to my opinion that the speakers are great for HT. Mr. Eastside, I honestly find it difficult to assess musicality of speakers during a movie, especially when my tastes veer toward action movies. But for me it is easer to assess speaker strengths and weaknesses with a CD. Take for example, Sting's "Hounds of Winter". I want to hear Vinnie Colaiuta's drums and cymbals. But it's hard to hear on my speakers.

As i said before, I tried in good faith to make sure it wasn't anything else. Perhaps tweeter was wired incorrectly? Who knows.

I'm starting to feel the fangs of Emp fans out here and I understand that many of you are happy. I just wish I was frown.gif
post #1229 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

I see what you're saying. I'm not disagreeing, because I think we're talking about the same thing...but kinda characteristics of it. I don't know how to word it. I believe what you're saying is that most people want music to be accurate and for movies to have impact/dynamics throughout the movie...yes?

I mean you could easily say that a music speaker is usually set up in 2.0 and most of the time HT is setup with a center so your 2.0 setup would for one need better dispersion characteristics. But who would NOT want that for a HT speaker? You could also say that a music speaker has more bass below 70-80hz and it can be more of a full range speaker, but if your speaker doesn't play down into the 20's...you could still be missing quite a bit of info. And if it's not playing it at the same spl or slightly higher throughout the bandwidth then it's really not useable. That's not even taking distortion characteristics, power compression, your tune, etc. I don't know of a single thing for a HT speaker I would NOT want for a music setup and vice versa. That's just my mind mind so I'm open to discussion on this kind of stuff because I really like hearing outside opinions.

Sound effects/Musical soundtracks might not be in a movie as much as the vocal range, but it can be very close or more in lots of movies. There isn't a smaller range of frequencies movie producers use. They can and do still use the useable bandwidth (20-20kHz..give or take).

My main point is that 99.9% of people want a speaker that can reproduce the source accurately. Let me say that everyone's ears are different and everyone will not have the same opinion about each speaker, that's what makes choosing speakers such a hard thing without hearing them. Personal preference of sound, room acoustics, tune, etc will play the largest part in speaker choice
So you're saying you do not like these speakers for your music listening? Why not? Just wondering

No, I like the EMP and the Focal for music. They're both real nice in all respects, to my ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkim2001 View Post

I'm starting to feel the fangs of Emp fans out here and I understand that many of you are happy. I just wish I was frown.gif

It's all good. If your ears didn't like them, not much you can do. I'm just kind of surprised, most of the owners in this thread have been real happy. But, we're all different. I hope you find something else that meets your expectations! cool.gif
post #1230 of 3142
Nope, no fangs wink.gif Choosing speakers is 99.9% personal preference. You can't ever say for certain that someone will like speaker A over speaker B. Tons of factors in those decisions and only the end user can make that call. Like I said, in the end, all that matters is that you're happy with what you have. I was just trying to help ya in the journey for that personal perfection.

Any idea's what you're going to go after? And...can I ask you what you've heard before or what you've had before that you might have liked (just someone I like to ask to see if my opinion on something is a little more factual than not).

I'm assuming you've already sent them back, which is a bummer. Would have been cool to open them up and see if anything was miswired. I know they did...or at least he said they did more checks than normal on all the BF purchases since there were so many, but wiring one out of polarity could have done some weird stuff for sure. I would be more interested to see if one or both of the midranges had their polarity swapped. Once you get a little higher in the spectrum it becomes more dependent on levels rather than phasing/polarity issues.
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