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**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 42

post #1231 of 3142
Speakers I have listened to (in no particular order):

Golden Ear Triton Two
B&W 804 Diamond
B&W 7NT
B&W CM8
Sonus Faber Venere 2.5
Dynaudio Excite X32
Focal Chorus 726

OUSOONER 2, it's funny that you mention wiring. In a previous post, I mentioned this was an issue in our BF shipment delays. They found some of our centers to be out of spec and a part had to be either rewired or replaced, I do not recall which.

I just got the FEDEX labels today. I'm thinking about maybe sending just the towers and see if the EMP crew can troubleshoot it. We'll see.
post #1232 of 3142
You might contact EMP and ask them if they won't void the warranty if they'll allow you to open them up and make sure all the wiring is correct, make sure x-overs are okay, etc. I didn't know about the center issues though. I know the shipments were taking longer than expected, but I didn't realize they had actually found an issue. I'd MUCH rather them take few days more to find that problem and correct it there rather than box them back up, send them back, wait....wait for them to be sent back, unbox them again, etc.

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to look it over for you once they get back to EMP. I know I sure as hell would if it were my company. Wouldn't hurt to at least put that miswiring theory to the test wink.gif



btw...just got my Denon 1712 in a few hours ago and just got to playing with it. Looks much cleaner than my Yammy 663, GUI is nicer, etc. Ran a quick run with MultEQ XT and the sound isn't too bad at all. It definitely brings up the top end more to my liking. I'll definitely be playing with mic placement, etc...but not too shabby Audyssey. biggrin.gif
post #1233 of 3142
hmm.. maybe i'm over thinking all of this but now I'm worried that maybe one or multiple drivers could be out of phase with mine.. my gut reaction to my emp's were that they fell pretty flat which could happen if there's any cancellation going on.. i really had to push the EQ on these to get anything out of them for several of the music tests/demo's i did..

i'm very much in the same park as jkim2001.. i don't think I can actually buy a better speaker for the money at this class, but i'm still not 100% blown away by these just yet and only have a week left to return.. i might try and swap some of the wiring tonight, but that won't alleviate any internal miswiring unless they're all swapped.. and there's no way i'm cracking these babies open.. wink.gif
post #1234 of 3142
Hey guys, i am looking at possibly getting the Emptek EW30 or EW35 on wall speakers for a 3.1 setup. I have never heard or listened to Emptek before. I was originally going to look at getting Paradigm Cinema or Millenia on wall speakers. How do the Empteks compare? How good is Emptek? Like i mentioned, i have never heard of them so they are very new to me.

Thanks
post #1235 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecue View Post

hmm.. maybe i'm over thinking all of this but now I'm worried that maybe one or multiple drivers could be out of phase with mine.. my gut reaction to my emp's were that they fell pretty flat which could happen if there's any cancellation going on.. i really had to push the EQ on these to get anything out of them for several of the music tests/demo's i did..

i'm very much in the same park as jkim2001.. i don't think I can actually buy a better speaker for the money at this class, but i'm still not 100% blown away by these just yet and only have a week left to return.. i might try and swap some of the wiring tonight, but that won't alleviate any internal miswiring unless they're all swapped.. and there's no way i'm cracking these babies open.. wink.gif

Exactly. Again, I will not dismiss the positive comments that the owners have of the speaker. But I stand firm in my belief that the speakers are really flat. Now, if you add in room EQ, then that is when i think the speakers start to shape up. Which leads me to believe that wiring may not be an issue after all.

I will only judge a speaker w/ all Room EQ off. Adding room EQ is is tantamount to adding artificial sweeteners to your dessert (my opinion). And let me add that Brian @ Emp also agreed w/ me that the basis for all speaker comparisons should be with room EQ settings off.
post #1236 of 3142
I think that Emptek sounds great. I do have them running through an Emotiva amp which I am sure helps out with opening the bad boys up. I have never heard those on wall speakers before but if you don't like them you can send them back. They have a 30 day money back policy. Take advantage of it.
post #1237 of 3142
Can comment specifically about the on-wall variation, but I think the drivers in EMPtek speakers are excellent (and audioholics magazine review of the E5tis agrees, saying the drivers alone justified the price).

As for the issues a couple of you are having, I would bet if you work with EMP they would send you another set free. And then if those don't sound right, well, this just isn't the speaker for you...
post #1238 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecue View Post

hmm.. maybe i'm over thinking all of this but now I'm worried that maybe one or multiple drivers could be out of phase with mine.. my gut reaction to my emp's were that they fell pretty flat which could happen if there's any cancellation going on.. i really had to push the EQ on these to get anything out of them for several of the music tests/demo's i did..

i'm very much in the same park as jkim2001.. i don't think I can actually buy a better speaker for the money at this class, but i'm still not 100% blown away by these just yet and only have a week left to return.. i might try and swap some of the wiring tonight, but that won't alleviate any internal miswiring unless they're all swapped.. and there's no way i'm cracking these babies open.. wink.gif

Swap polarity and try again. What are you using or listening to that would make you think you have phase issues? Do you have any material like Autosound discs or any type of setup discs that have phasing tracks and/or stage tracks?

Opening them up would be very simple. I'm not sure if they've told you that would void the warranty or something, but it would be a very simple and quick task for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkim2001 View Post

Exactly. Again, I will not dismiss the positive comments that the owners have of the speaker. But I stand firm in my belief that the speakers are really flat. Now, if you add in room EQ, then that is when i think the speakers start to shape up. Which leads me to believe that wiring may not be an issue after all.

I will only judge a speaker w/ all Room EQ off. Adding room EQ is is tantamount to adding artificial sweeteners to your dessert (my opinion). And let me add that Brian @ Emp also agreed w/ me that the basis for all speaker comparisons should be with room EQ settings off.

They're definitely flat. Much more flat than most budget speakers that tend to overemphasize 120hz and under or 6-8kHz and up. When you do that, the midrange can really suffer. You should definitely audition a speaker with no EQ and preferebly in the same room, with the same equipment (though most won't/can't hear the difference). EQ isn't a bad thing though. Especially if you're mostly cutting db's, not boosting. I can definitely say that my first run with MultEQ XT has opened up the top end a little more than having the e55's play direct/stereo/etc (no EQ). I only had about 10 minutes to listen so I'm not drawing any conclusions. I need a LOT more time and many more tunes to really see if I prefer the effect, what areas it improves or doesn't improve the sound, etc. I like the e55ti's before, but my biggest complaint would definitely be a slight roll off in the top end.

Do you listen at lower volumes mostly?
post #1239 of 3142
I am sorry you guys think the E55ti's are flat in response, I do not share that viewpoint. I have nothing but praise for their midrange and high's- better than my old Polk CS-A6 center and my Polk RTI-10's. They lack a tad in the mid to lower bass area, so I keep my sub crossover at 120Hz, set the Yamaha RX-A810 AVR to "extended bass" and I am happy. Especially since I got my E55ti's and E56Ci center on sale for $ 872. I am guessing but I figure to significantly upgrade my speakers- to the point that the audible difference to ME is worth the increase in money- I would have to spend $4500 for the L/R/C.
post #1240 of 3142
Thread Starter 
A couple comments:

One, remember you dont hear the speaker unless your in an open quiet field, you hear the speaker in the room.

Whats being described here is speaker voicing. While most speaker manufacturers attempt to adhere to a flattish FR each has their own voicing which may have the upper FR tilted downward(softer highs) or a bass bump down low which some people like. Speaker voicing is an individual taste, not everyone likes the same sound.

Now if you think B&Ws have the "flattest" FR out there you def drank tha kool-aid.

Most people would learn a lot by taking the time to measure the FR of their speakers and see what they are actually doing, they also might learn that what they thought "soumded" flat was actually not that flat at all.

P.S. dont go monkeying around switching wires in your speakers, if you cant tell by listening and/or dont have measurement capability youll likely not be able to form any conclusions that way.

Find somebody local who can measure, if polarity is switched youll have a sharp null @ crossover and the rest of the FR will be fine. Your room likely introduces several nulls just like this so how would you know whats what?
Edited by NicksHitachi - 1/24/13 at 5:23pm
post #1241 of 3142
I agree with most of the comments on here about how good they sound with Mid's and highs, being a sound engineer for a lot of live acts I find it damn enjoyable to come home and listen to music or watch a movie on the EMP tek speakers. I also agree if they are not the sound you wanted go audtion some speakers either at best buy or a local shop and find a bases of what you like to hear, some like bass some don't, For myself you can never have enough mid range in a speaker and the E55ti give me all I need plus a little more as my SongTowers give me a lot of highs and lows but for double the cost which needs no sub. So it comes down to what makes your ears happy and the E55ti sound like they don't do that which is ok, its part of the hobby and in a few years I will look for the next best speaker that does my ears justice.
post #1242 of 3142
I do not understand why people want their speakers to have a lot of bass. That is what the sub is for. The bigger the driver the more displacement so the lower it goes. Do you think that a 6.5" driver is going to produce a lot of bass? I think it is more important how the speakers sound from 125Hz to 20KHz. These speakers do a great job of that in sounding more realistic and not too bright. They sound natural like it has been mentioned before in this thread. That is the most important thing IMO.
post #1243 of 3142
Btw, I have spent a couple weekends at my friends house recently and had a good chance to listen to his Ascend CMT340 front stage set up! I shared this in another thread, but thought it would be nice to bring it here. As I have said in the past, I have the e5tis and the smaller of the two centers as my front stage. Disclaimer...very differently room, mine is 16 x 20 with 8.5 foot ceiling, his is 20 x24 with 10+ foot ceilings! And he paid 2x for his Ascend over what I paid for the EMPs!

The ascend CMT340 really rock in two channel with no sub for music. In this arena, they blow away my mini towers. Really good tight bass from the 340s. The larger towers might compete...

For HT, I like the EMPs. Very dynamic midrange and really good clear highs. While the EMPs aren't going to hit lows really well, with a sub my EMP set up will give the Ascend a run for the money in the HT arena. The Ascend is a more balanced reciver, hits all freqs pretty well. The EMP might be a tad weak at the low end, but really make up for it with great midrange and really crisp, clear highs. prehaps the Ascends are alittle better at the high end, but that would just depend on a person's taste.
post #1244 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

I do not understand why people want their speakers to have a lot of bass. That is what the sub is for. The bigger the driver the more displacement so the lower it goes. Do you think that a 6.5" driver is going to produce a lot of bass? I think it is more important how the speakers sound from 125Hz to 20KHz. These speakers do a great job of that in sounding more realistic and not too bright. They sound natural like it has been mentioned before in this thread. That is the most important thing IMO.

+1

I could go on and on about this, but...+1. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Btw, I have spent a couple weekends at my friends house recently and had a good chance to listen to his Ascend CMT340 front stage set up! I shared this in another thread, but thought it would be nice to bring it here. As I have said in the past, I have the e5tis and the smaller of the two centers as my front stage. Disclaimer...very differently room, mine is 16 x 20 with 8.5 foot ceiling, his is 20 x24 with 10+ foot ceilings! And he paid 2x for his Ascend over what I paid for the EMPs!

The ascend CMT340 really rock in two channel with no sub for music. In this arena, they blow away my mini towers. Really good tight bass from the 340s. The larger towers might compete...

For HT, I like the EMPs. Very dynamic midrange and really good clear highs. While the EMPs aren't going to hit lows really well, with a sub my EMP set up will give the Ascend a run for the money in the HT arena. The Ascend is a more balanced reciver, hits all freqs pretty well. The EMP might be a tad weak at the low end, but really make up for it with great midrange and really crisp, clear highs. prehaps the Ascends are alittle better at the high end, but that would just depend on a person's taste.

Gene (from Audioholics) said the e55ti was a HUGE step up. I believe I also still have a PM from him that says something along the lines of "it's not even close" or something like that. Adding another 6.5" and another 5.25" midrange, plus a larger cabinet is going to yield (usually) more low end and much more ease through the midrange (if it's done right). More drivers doesn't always mean better, but the e55ti hits the nail on the head in the vocal range.

What's keeping you from steeping up to the e55 and e56 Elihawk? biggrin.gif
post #1245 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

I do not understand why people want their speakers to have a lot of bass. That is what the sub is for. The bigger the driver the more displacement so the lower it goes. Do you think that a 6.5" driver is going to produce a lot of bass? I think it is more important how the speakers sound from 125Hz to 20KHz. These speakers do a great job of that in sounding more realistic and not too bright. They sound natural like it has been mentioned before in this thread. That is the most important thing IMO.

sorry, i disagree with this.. i believe towers should easily be able to handle bass and perform at a decent dB level, that is not was a sub is for.. a sub should be for sub-bass IMHO and honestly i think all subs sound gross and boomy if crossed over any higher than around 80 (i keep it crossed at 60). Your mains should be able to handle the lower end extended to 80-200hz without disappearing. just my 2 cents..
post #1246 of 3142
My partner, my bank account, tells me I should stay put for now. Besides, what I have sounds GREAT to me!
post #1247 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecue View Post

sorry, i disagree with this.. i believe towers should easily be able to handle bass and perform at a decent dB level, that is not was a sub is for.. a sub should be for sub-bass IMHO and honestly i think all subs sound gross and boomy if crossed over any higher than around 80 (i keep it crossed at 60). Your mains should be able to handle the lower end extended to 80-200hz without disappearing. just my 2 cents..

You haven't heard a good sub then smile.gif

The e55's are easily capable of 80hz at the same spl that they are around 100-150hz (in-room). My room is pretty large. Placement is a big factor also. It's all about trade off's (usually in this budget range) and one reason the EMP's attracted me was because they were able to reach higher spl's rather than digging deep into midbass/subbass. Any good sub should be able to play up into the mid 80's with no problem. Our ears are extremely inefficient below 150-200hz, especially in the range most of us listen. You need larger diameter drivers with more power to reach the spl needed. No way around that. You can pick up towers in this budget that will play 60hz with authority, but have fun with that midbass hump and horrible lower midrange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

My partner, my bank account, tells me I should stay put for now. Besides, what I have sounds GREAT to me!

Good answer wink.gif
post #1248 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecue View Post

sorry, i disagree with this.. i believe towers should easily be able to handle bass and perform at a decent dB level, that is not was a sub is for.. a sub should be for sub-bass IMHO and honestly i think all subs sound gross and boomy if crossed over any higher than around 80 (i keep it crossed at 60). Your mains should be able to handle the lower end extended to 80-200hz without disappearing. just my 2 cents..

I don't, totally, disagree with you. I do think regular speakers should have a little thump/bass, but the people who expect some kind of thunderous rumble and sneer at any speakers that won't do it make me laugh. My biggest pet peeve is the phrase: "These speakers really need a subwoofer". Of course, they need a subwoofer! No speaker does what a subwoofer does. All I expect out of speakers is some decent midrange and a minor amount of bass. That said, I've owned a lot of towers and I wouldn't consider any of them as having really strong bass, and I've owned some expensive speakers.

I'm not sure why your subs sound gross and boomy. That shouldn't be the case if it's a decent sub. Perhaps, you just don't care for a ton of bass.
post #1249 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

You haven't heard a good sub then smile.gif

The e55's are easily capable of 80hz at the same spl that they are around 100-150hz (in-room). My room is pretty large. Placement is a big factor also. It's all about trade off's (usually in this budget range) and one reason the EMP's attracted me was because they were able to reach higher spl's rather than digging deep into midbass/subbass. Any good sub should be able to play up into the mid 80's with no problem. Our ears are extremely inefficient below 150-200hz, especially in the range most of us listen. You need larger diameter drivers with more power to reach the spl needed. No way around that. You can pick up towers in this budget that will play 60hz with authority, but have fun with that midbass hump and horrible lower midrange.

I 100% agree with you. I could not have said it better myself. That is that guys opinion and that is fine, but he probably has never heard a good sub or integrated a good sub correctly into his setup.
post #1250 of 3142
Even in live music it’s the same setup as the EMP tek have with their speaker’s setup. Again I have Songtowers that can handle music with no sub but the EMP tek with the sub sound better then the Salks. Separate pieces designed to do separate things is a good thing and that’s what you want in a good system. That way if you’re not a sub fan then you don’t need one and these speakers can handle the lows and mid very well with a little low end.
In fact right now a good friend of mine is using part of the EMP teks to do sound for a movie to see what the system sounds like on a 5.1 system. To get an idea of all parts are operating as they should.




the second picture is looking at where sounds should come from in right to left 2.0 setup and I'll have to see if I can get one of his assignments charts of what sounds go to what speaker.
post #1251 of 3142
Quote:
You haven't heard a good sub then
maybe so, but i even feel that way with the ES1010i and I love this sub..
Quote:
The e55's are easily capable of 80hz at the same spl that they are around 100-150hz (in-room).
agree that they're very capable of 80hz, but i definitely don't think at the same spl as 150hz.. i'd be interested in doing an actual measurement but i hear a significant drop off from 200hz down to 80hz when running straight frequency tests through the e55's.. Which is a bell curve to be expected there like you mention regarding our ears being terribly inefficient.. but i've heard better towers in that range. an easy solution on the e55's is to EQ that area IMO and they're fine..
Quote:
It's all about trade off's (usually in this budget range) and one reason the EMP's attracted me was because they were able to reach higher spl's rather than digging deep into midbass/subbass.
totally agree.. and which is why i'm probably going to keep them. remember, i'm not saying these are bad speakers by any means. heck two posts ago i even stated these are probably the *best* speakers you can buy at this price point. that doesn't neglect the fact that i think there are things they lack in.
Quote:
Any good sub should be able to play up into the mid 80's with no problem.
again, agree.. but it's just above that point (esp in the 100-120hz) that any sub i've ever heard starts to come across boxy.. i want to feel my sub not hear it - it's a non-directional source. however, i want to hear my towers and the human ear is perfectly capable of hearing 80-150hz as directional sound.. heck a good male baritone can reach to 100hz and below.. wink.gif
Edited by deecue - 1/25/13 at 10:08am
post #1252 of 3142
Quote:
but he probably has never heard a good sub or integrated a good sub correctly into his setup.

i broke a wine glass while watching the stampede sequence in Australia last night.. i wouldn't assume **** my friend.. wink.gif
post #1253 of 3142
Quote:
I don't, totally, disagree with you. I do think regular speakers should have a little thump/bass, but the people who expect some kind of thunderous rumble and sneer at any speakers that won't do it make me laugh. My biggest pet peeve is the phrase: "These speakers really need a subwoofer". Of course, they need a subwoofer! No speaker does what a subwoofer does. All I expect out of speakers is some decent midrange and a minor amount of bass. That said, I've owned a lot of towers and I wouldn't consider any of them as having really strong bass, and I've owned some expensive speakers.

I'm not sure why your subs sound gross and boomy. That shouldn't be the case if it's a decent sub. Perhaps, you just don't care for a ton of bass.

Hey MrEastSide,

Yeah, I definitely am in line with you here and agree with what you're saying.. Maybe I overstated the 'gross and boomy' part as if it was some cut off point that anytime a sub reach 81hz, it's just an awful experience.. Probably should have stated it better.. My point was that as the sub is allowed to reach in to the bass area and extend past sub-bass frequencies, it begins to sound directional and in my personal preference boomy/muddy/boxy/gross whatever you want to call it.. it's a natural progression the higher is moves up from 80 to 150. Again, maybe this is just personal preference.. But as a sub being non-directional, i don't want to it produce anything higher than mid-80's - in my case, i personally like it at as low as nothing above 60..
post #1254 of 3142
Speaking of subwoofers...I recently purchased the klipsch 10 inch sub (synergy, I think). I missed the sale on the EMP double es10i10i. Any thoughts on how the two subs might compare? The klipsch is a single 10" woofer and downfiring....but in terms if sound quality and output, what differences might I hear?
post #1255 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecue View Post

Hey MrEastSide,

Yeah, I definitely am in line with you here and agree with what you're saying.. Maybe I overstated the 'gross and boomy' part as if it was some cut off point that anytime a sub reach 81hz, it's just an awful experience.. Probably should have stated it better.. My point was that as the sub is allowed to reach in to the bass area and extend past sub-bass frequencies, it begins to sound directional and in my personal preference boomy/muddy/boxy/gross whatever you want to call it.. it's a natural progression the higher is moves up from 80 to 150. Again, maybe this is just personal preference.. But as a sub being non-directional, i don't want to it produce anything higher than mid-80's - in my case, i personally like it at as low as nothing above 60..

I definitely think the EMP Tek could have a little more bass, but they're not too far off for my taste. Luckily, most of the time, you can get a sub to do what you want and correct any deficiencies with a set of towers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Speaking of subwoofers...I recently purchased the klipsch 10 inch sub (synergy, I think). I missed the sale on the EMP double es10i10i. Any thoughts on how the two subs might compare? The klipsch is a single 10" woofer and downfiring....but in terms if sound quality and output, what differences might I hear?

The most obvious being the second 10" on the EMP Tek, which will move more air and will (should) give you more bass. They're both downfiring. Quality-wise, build, and audio quality, I'll bet they're similar.
post #1256 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecue View Post

i broke a wine glass while watching the stampede sequence in Australia last night.. i wouldn't assume **** my friend.. wink.gif


Just because it fell off the table doesnt mean anything. Your sub never broke that glass. The floor did. What sub do you have? What is your room size? How do you have it eq'ed? what are your room treatments? What amp are you using and how is it running off the amp? Answer those questions and maybe I can agree with you. You have not tole me anything otherwise.
post #1257 of 3142
Ok I see that you have the Emptek sub. So youi do not need to answer those questions. But I will tell you that I can assume that there is nooooooo waaaay your sub broke that glass. I have a 15" dayton driver in a diy THT sub that is running off of an EP2000 eq'ed with the miniDSP. That sub will crush your sub more than you know. Even though it rock my entire house (literally) and every room shakes, It has not nor could break a glass.
Edited by Pain Infliction - 1/25/13 at 11:54am
post #1258 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Speaking of subwoofers...I recently purchased the klipsch 10 inch sub (synergy, I think). I missed the sale on the EMP double es10i10i. Any thoughts on how the two subs might compare? The klipsch is a single 10" woofer and downfiring....but in terms if sound quality and output, what differences might I hear?

Integrating two different subs can be tricky. You will def need some type of eq and measuring tools. You can download REQ for free and use that with a good mic. You may be better off if you sell one of your subs and buy the same sub as the one you didnt sell. Having two identical subs will get you +3db in different locations and in the same location will get you about +6db. Two different subs can actually have cancellation issues or major dips in the response if not tuned correctly. REQ will let you see all of that.
post #1259 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

Ok I see that you have the Emptek sub. So youi do not need to answer those questions. But I will tell you that I can assume that there is nooooooo waaaay your sub broke that glass. I have a 15" dayton driver in a diy THT sub that is running off of an EP2000 eq'ed with the miniDSP. That sub will crush your sub more than you know. Even though it rock my entire house (literally) and every room shakes, It has not nor could break a glass.

alllright, let's take a breath.. it was a fun jest, a figure of speech.. no one in their right mind would believe that a sub would have broken the glass.. i believe the interwebs might have gotten you a bit too worked up here. i'm glad to hear your sub will crush my sub more than i know. thanks for bringing a knowledgeable adult forum to the likes of a cocky teenager.. well done.
post #1260 of 3142
Dude whatever you want to call it. Now you want to try to belittle me just because I called you out. That does not work on me so try again and also, everything that I am saying on here I can back up. I am not exaggerating or stretching the truth like you are. I can't stand people that do that. I always say..."you don'y have to lie to hang out". I was not trying to brag about my sub crushing yours but more of letting you know that I am not "assuming".
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