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**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 78

post #2311 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

The best Blu ray player in your budget is the Oppo 103 but it may have features you don't need and won't use. Look it over. Most blu ray players in the $100-$150 range will also provide all the performnace you need. I use the Samsung BDF5900 because it will play about any rental blu ray Netfix sends me without any fuss. $88 bucks on Amazon. DACs are DACs, the numbers are different but they all sound the same so ignore that issue completely. The receiver is just a matter of choosing the capabilites and features you want and will use - number of channels, multi room - that sort of stuff. None of it has to do with sound quality. Like the DAC's they all sound the same as well. Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, Harman and Marantz all have good reliability records. Just get what you need and choose whatever floats your boat. My own receiver is about 7 or 8 years old. It is a Pioneer Elite. It just keeps chugging along happily. If it ever breaks I'll get something newer.
dacs are not just dacs!!!! There are huge differences btween a good dac and a cheaper dacs! Digital is digital but when It comes to analog, that is entire different game. There is a great article in this months version of Sound and Vision magazine if you guys have the magazine or can look it up online.

This guy wants two channel for music so don't tell him wrong info and to ignore that completely. Go ask the turntable guys about dacs.
post #2312 of 3142
What would a turntable have to do with a DAC? Sorry, but you're dealing with an individual who has done years of bias controlled testing. The DAC's manufacturered over the past 20 years all sound exactly the same in a bias controlled test. I'm not suggesting they are the same or that their specs are the same. I'm telling you that they all sound the same whether they are on a computer sound card or a $10,000 high end component DAC.. They all produce the same results sonically. The differences in specification are all below the threshold of audibility. Worrying about DACs is truly pointless. There are no good DACs and bad DACs. Just DACs. Go do a bias controlled listening test and learn from it. It will amaze you.
post #2313 of 3142
Lest ye all not forget the BF sale has started at EMP.

https://store.emptek.com/HolidaySale.php

This thread had not been so active in a long time and the sale info is pushed back a way.
post #2314 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

"Define a good dac"..... Well that would be who has the best chip in their board. Marantz probably have one of the better dacs at a reasonable price without unloading the cost of a car for a pre/pro or avr.

So Marantz/Denon are the only good dacs? What is the chip?
Edited by gregoryperkins - 11/24/13 at 6:55pm
post #2315 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post

So Marantz/Denon are to only good dacs? What is the chip?

No. I gave an example, and even though Marantz owns Denon, they have different dac's other than the 4520ci. The dac is TI Burr Brown PCM179. Even the x4000 does not use that DAC and that is the model below the flagship 4520ci.

Besides that, I feel that you are trying to call BS on what I say by the simple vague questions you are asking me, and asking me things you think that I do not know.
Edited by Pain Infliction - 11/24/13 at 7:05pm
post #2316 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

What would a turntable have to do with a DAC? Sorry, but you're dealing with an individual who has done years of bias controlled testing. The DAC's manufacturered over the past 20 years all sound exactly the same in a bias controlled test. I'm not suggesting they are the same or that their specs are the same. I'm telling you that they all sound the same whether they are on a computer sound card or a $10,000 high end component DAC.. They all produce the same results sonically. The differences in specification are all below the threshold of audibility. Worrying about DACs is truly pointless. There are no good DACs and bad DACs. Just DACs. Go do a bias controlled listening test and learn from it. It will amaze you.

You may have tested dac over the last 20 years, but technology changes. Not only do they do the normal conversion but they do more than that such as DSD stream conversion. Makers such as Onkyo/Integra or the Oppo BD players amongst others can also send the digital DSD stream over HDMI in a "direct" or "pure" mode directly to the DACs for conversion inside the DAC itself. Most higher-end DAC chips these days feature direct DSD stream conversion inside the DAC. That is what Marantz means by "Sound recorded in source is played as is."
Edited by Pain Infliction - 11/24/13 at 7:08pm
post #2317 of 3142
I'm not trying to call bs. I'm asking for some examples. People (not me) are asking for advice on receivers and you are saying, get a good dac.

Some examples at different price points would be a good thing to provide. I am genuinely interested, and have heard a lot of opinions.

I think very high end dacs are probably not a good way to spend your money, especially when we are in a thread for a value oriented speaker manufacturer.

I provided a Pioneer 823 as a good entry level receiver sub $200. Is that a good dac?

What chip should a person look for?
post #2318 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post

Lest ye all not forget the BF sale has started at EMP.

https://store.emptek.com/HolidaySale.php

This thread had not been so active in a long time and the sale info is pushed back a way.

+1
post #2319 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

You may have tested dac over the last 20 years, but technology changes. Not only do they do the normal conversion but they do more than that such as DSD stream conversion. Makers such as Onkyo/Integra or the Oppo BD players amongst others can also send the digital DSD stream over HDMI in a "direct" or "pure" mode directly to the DACs for conversion inside the DAC itself. Most higher-end DAC chips these days feature direct DSD stream conversion inside the DAC. That is what Marantz means by "Sound recorded in source is played as is."

I didn't say they weren't different. I didn't say technology hasn't progressed. I said they all sound the same and they do. It has been proven over and over. If you want to separate good and bad DACs by the technological advancements or specifications, that's fine. I'm just telling you that those advancements don't change the way we perceive the sound they generate. Those advancements are all below the level of audibility. That's why I suggested to a an audio novice that he shouldn't be concerned about DACs. DACs won't make the system sound better.
post #2320 of 3142
I have a potential buyer for my rw-12d's....


Do I swap them for dual e1010i's? What do you all think?
post #2321 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

I have a potential buyer for my rw-12d's....


Do I swap them for dual e1010i's? What do you all think?

Tough call, If you can break even or come close it might be worth it. You gain accuracy but lose a little output.
post #2322 of 3142
I'll make $50 lol. Well...get my $50 back. I paid $550 for them and I'll be selling them for $550. Pay $500 for dual e1010i's and call it a day for awhile.

I need to take a measurement of my room again before I sell them (if I do). I was basically missing a HUGE chunk of volume below about 38-40hz. Between no low end and my top end (above 6kHz) dropping by 25dB....I've got some weird ish going on!
post #2323 of 3142
let see...rw12d vs 1010i...
1. Alittle more output from the Rw12d from what I can tell and from the measurements posted on here.
2. IMHO, the EMP are more accurate and just easier to listen to. not as boomy as the RW12d
3. Way easier on the eyes!

I actually have the Rw12 AND the Klipsch synergy sub and while the Synergy sub (10 inch) clearly doesn't put out like the Rw12, it is a smoother and easier sub to listen to! just haven't been a fan of the Rw12d
post #2324 of 3142
I contacted Brian from Emptek and I too got a refund because of the price drop for BlackFriday. Now that is some awesome customer service. I am tempted to purchase the Center Channel speaker to match my tower but I am trying to stay away from rear ported speakers because there isn't much space to mount the speakers and leave enough gap in the rear. Anyone have an alternative suggestion of another company that makes some decent front ported or sealed center speakers? Or maybe I have to go with some on-wall speakers.
Edited by revlimit - 11/25/13 at 11:50am
post #2325 of 3142

Emp Tek contacted me to tell me that the speakers will be shipped only in another week or so due to the holiday rush. :( 

post #2326 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by revlimit View Post

I contacted Brian from Emptek and I too got a refund because of the price drop for BlackFriday. Now that is some awesome customer service. I am tempted to purchase the Center Channel speaker to match my tower but I am trying to stay away from rear ported speakers because there isn't much space to mount the speakers and leave enough gap in the rear. Anyone have an alternative suggestion of another company that makes some decent front ported or sealed center speakers? Or maybe I have to go with some on-wall speakers.

How much room behind the ports would you have? I would much rather run no center than a center that isn't timbre matched to the mains. The e55's are definitely good enough at creating solid center image in stereo so I would do that before picking up something that will throw off the front stage.
post #2327 of 3142
I would say I have about 2" if I were to place the center speaker on the fireplace mantel.
post #2328 of 3142

On the subject of center channels... I'm going to build a tv stand and it'll have spaces for avr, htpc, etc... I'm guessing if I leave the back of the center channel space open it is better than closing it off?

 

I've also been reading about subs and I'm so torn on what to get. Originally thinking a SVS PC12+ but I might go cheaper with a PSA XV15 or a HSU VTF-15H... I don't know what to do lol!

post #2329 of 3142
post #2330 of 3142
Yeah I saw that late yesterday. Good price compared to what it normally is. Bad thing is if you need 2 of them...that's $1200!! Definitely a helluva sub, by the numbers, for that price though (non-DIY sub). Having someone come by to look at my rw-12d's today. Still can't decide if I wan't to trade them for the e1010i's or not. Not ready to spend $1,000+ on a pair of subs
post #2331 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post





Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post




I would like to add that these charts I posted earlier......are wrong. Please do not use these. I was just informed that HSU used 1m bursts instead of CEA 2m groundplane measurments. Still trying to find out if there's a way to make them more alike, but some have said it's hard to do and be correct. The HSU subs will be closer to the others when corrected though, so not such a huge difference

Sorry redface.gif
post #2332 of 3142
Anyone here running the e5bi bookshelves with the e5ci center and es1010i sub? If so what do think? Sound good with music as well as movies? I'm seriously considering this set up and loking for some thoughts from owners.
Thanks.
post #2333 of 3142
2 out of 3...I have the smaller center and the 1010i sub and it is excellent for music and movies. I am also using the e5Ti mini towers, however...
post #2334 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudVH View Post

Anyone here running the e5bi bookshelves with the e5ci center and es1010i sub? If so what do think? Sound good with music as well as movies? I'm seriously considering this set up and loking for some thoughts from owners.
Thanks.

If you can get away with the height aspect of it, run a bookshelf (e5bi) as your center instead. Much more seemless front stage, better timbre match and better horizontal dispersion
post #2335 of 3142

Thanks for the info. For a room of 23' x 21' is the LFM-1 Plus enough?
post #2336 of 3142
"enough" is relative to what you think is 'enough'. Assuming 8' ceilings and a completely closed room, that's just shy of 4,000cuft. I'd think more along the lines of an LFM-1ex....or 2 if you want the pressurized room, full on movie mode effect lol. A lot of us don't need crazy crazy bass though, or bass into the teens at 120+ dB biggrin.gif
post #2337 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

"enough" is relative to what you think is 'enough'. Assuming 8' ceilings and a completely closed room, that's just shy of 4,000cuft. I'd think more along the lines of an LFM-1ex....or 2 if you want the pressurized room, full on movie mode effect lol. A lot of us don't need crazy crazy bass though, or bass into the teens at 120+ dB biggrin.gif

+1. Need to know more about the room. I used to own two of the lfm plus subs and had a room about the size of yours at the time. It was not closed off and pretty much open floor plan. Those two subs were nowhere close to pressurizing the room, but they did sound good. When I moved, They were in a smaller room and sounded even better for the obvious reason.

What is your budget on a sub or subs and we can help you pick a sub.
post #2338 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by moussaka View Post

On the subject of center channels... I'm going to build a tv stand and it'll have spaces for avr, htpc, etc... I'm guessing if I leave the back of the center channel space open it is better than closing it off?

I've also been reading about subs and I'm so torn on what to get. Originally thinking a SVS PC12+ but I might go cheaper with a PSA XV15 or a HSU VTF-15H... I don't know what to do lol!

That HSU VTF-15H is a beast! So is the PSA! Please come back and post with what you went with!

Also, what is your sub budget?

Oh, I also want to mention the Rythmik FV15HP. That thing is awesome!
Edited by Pain Infliction - 11/26/13 at 2:17pm
post #2339 of 3142
My budget is $600 and the Outlaw hits the mark. Debating on the Outlaw or the HSU VTF-2 or -3. I currently have a HSU STF-2 and it is a simi open room. It has a 12ft high ceiling sloping downard.
post #2340 of 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by revlimit View Post

Thanks for the info. For a room of 23' x 21' is the LFM-1 Plus enough?
The plus will work in that size room. However it will not be an even response. I would opt for two. For $1000, the two pluses would be freaking awesome, put mildly.
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