**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 13

uncola, I tell you one thing...that is one nice looking speaker! Mine were B stock, but I sure couldn't see the flaw(s)!

I'm not happy with the sound of my E5Ti's. I'm certain it's because my reciever does not have enough power.

Onkyo HT-S5100
75 Watts/Channel @ 8ohms (FTC) I don't know what "FTC" means. Not RMS I presume.
130 Watts/Channel @ 6 ohms (IEC) I don't know what "IEC" means.

I lost an auction for a Denon AVR-3806 with no setup mic yesterday. My max bid was $260 it sold for $265. Those 120 watts per channel looked appealing to me. Plus it had a phono connection. I have an ART DJ phono preamp. I'd like a phono in on a receiver but I can live without it right now as I am morbidly poor due to a temporary disability.

I'm looking at the Denon AVR-1712 & the AVR2311CI refurbished if I don't win the auction for the
Denon AVR 2807 on the bay of e.

What I need to know is, could I hook up an amplifier to my receiver? Does it have to have preamp outs? Could I hook up a Onkyo M-282 2-Channel Power Amplifier to my receiver to give the speakers the power they need just to see if I like them?
I don't know what to do.
I can post pics of my situation if need be.

*first post, I love this forum btw

Your receiver does not have Pre-outs so yes...you do need a receiver with pre-outs.

I will now get blasted for this.....

PLEASE DO NOT spend a ton on a receiver and an amp. You are very smart to look at used receivers and that 3806 is a fine unit. BUT.......you bought what I am guessing the B-stock speakers for $250.....either that or you did not spend over $500 for them. The bulk of your money should be spent on speakers....not a receiver. People are buying these speakers....which essentially are entry level speakers.....and then buying huge amps to drive them. That is not the way to go. I have heard these exact speakers and the 55's......while they are nice looking....they do lack in the low mids and bass....sounded muddy with not a lot of detail. For what it is worth....an Adcom amp was driving them. Again, I am NOT insulting the speakers.....they are decent for what they are but there are a LOT of speakers out there for the same money or a few bucks more that can best them. If sonically you are not happy with them.....then sell them and get something different.... audition audition audition....it's part of the fun.

Put my E5Ti's as fronts on my HT 5.1 system, w/o matching center channels speaker (the center and the surrounds are SLS Q line speakers). the speakers are replacing a couple Polk m40s, which I moved to my 2.0 bedroom system. In terms of music, the E5Ti's sound very good....but wow, they absolutely excel as fronts in my 5.1 HT system. Very dynamic! So I guess this is where they will live and I will have to purchase the matching center speaker....

I agree that HT sounds better than music but the music I play is mp3s' from my computer over a 100' rca cable so I am losing a lot of quality. I have also tested these speakers in a small room compared to a large room and the bass sounded much better in the small room. Room acoustics are a major factor for all speakers though.

As of today,4/2,there are no more E5Ti's on clearance.The March sale is still running,even though it was scheduled to end on 3/31.

No way to tell if people on the waiting list are being notified of pending clearances.....anyone been contacted?

Got my 56ci's in today and Brian at EMPtek is really cool with helping me out on the E55ti's surrounds. so far i love em! i'll take pix as soon as the rears come in. running everything through Pioneer 1121 which i still haven't calibrated yet and Quantron 60" led display!

Bummer about having to have pre-outs in order to use an amp.

The E5ti's I bought were clearance A stock not B stock. I would LOVE to audition speakers as that would mean I was healthy enough to leave the house. Unfortunately that is not the case.

I agree with you on your description of the sound. I am hoping the new receiver will improve the sound and provide a little more kick. The EQ provided with my motherboard improves the sound drastically. I can't stand to listen to a CD through the PS3 after hearing it through the computer. I run an optical out from all my devices as my current receiver has no HDMI video through. I think I'll put RTi A7's up front and move the E5ti's to the back (which was the plan from the get-go). I like the shape of the speakers. The RTi A line is similar in shape. Because I'm unable to audition speakers I have no interest in spending more than what the RTi line costs. Being unable to work also factors in to that equation. I doubt I'll be buying the E55ti's for the front, B stock or otherwise. I'm not hatting. I'm just not smitten. The EMP Tek employees deserve praise. Nobody from Polk will email me upon my purchase should I decide to go that route that's for sure.

I bought the Denon AVR1712 refurbished for $240 from MacMall. 125 watts per channel at 6 ohms which is what these speakers are. That should suffice... shouldn't it? Recomended power for the E5ti's is 50 - 150 watts according to the pamphlet that came with them.

This is my third post so now I think I can post links and pics. I'll give it a shot later.

Just FYI, the 125W rating on the 1712 is at 1kHz (6ohm)... Think of it as an inflated, "hey look at me" type spec that's meaningless marketing BS... Just like the 130W (6ohm) peak rating on the Onkyo you're replacing.

The 90W (20Hz-20kHz @ 8ohm) rating is the "realistic" rating. This is the continuous power rating over the entire frequency spectrum and much more meaningful.

Assuming all other things equal, the real world difference between 75W and 90W isn't much. But the 1712 does have a solid amp section, and depending on how well that Onkyo actually performs relative to its specs (ie. how much power it can actually put out without clipping or producing bunches of distortion), the difference may be more than expected from a 15W increase... and the addition of Audyssey MultiEQ XT is a nice bonus.

Without knowing how big your room is, or how loud you listen, I can't say if the 1712 will have enough power.

I'm not going to blast you....you did a pretty good job of it,yourself....The 55Ti's are "entry level" with poor mid-bass and "muddy" woofers?......pleeez....what are you talking about?

The 55Ti's have one of the best fabric dome tweeter and mid-bass woofers that I've heard......lacking in detail?....I bought them precisely for this reason...they put my polk m70's to shame and are at least on par with my Polk lsi 7's.I have it paired with a Revel sub and the combo is terrific.

As to your advice regarding more power,I agree,but what you should have picked up on was the poster running an optical cable from his ****** sound card to the recv'r....listening to Mp3"s!!!!!....No wonder the speakers sound lousy.

What you should have advised is that he get a $100 V-link to a low-priced Dac then out to any decent Onkyo or Pioneer recv'r.......and listen in 2 channel,pure direct only.

I have a $250 Dac with a Yaquin Cd3 Tube Buffer With upgraded Raytheon V-231 Black Plate Tubes.Total cost for the Dac and Yaquin was less than $450 dollars....I also have a 4yr old Pio Elite
The sound with Emp 55ti's is friggin' Extraordinary!

Get away from amps......get a tube preamplifier and a decent Dac for less money.....THIS is the advice you should have given,instead of denigrating speakers,that you obviously know nothing about.

Got it?........lesson over,peter

I even got a follow up email from emp asking me how I liked the speakers!
No expert...but I have found that the emp speakers sound really good with some sources and less good with others..in which case it just isn't the speaker! Some of my mp3 files are clearly crap and sound like it. Good old fashion fm radio sounds great! And for HT, realty outstanding (even with something that doesn't have a great soundtrack, like the NCAA bb game tonight!)
Also, remember these are 250-500 dollar per pair speakers...a great speaker for the price. However, they won't be perfect...

regarding with using an external amp i did my research and decided to hear what the E55ti's sounded like with just the 1121 receiver and the power is more than enough! so decided to hold off on the amp. so far with the E56ci i'm still awwwed with the performance. can't wait for the E55wi's to complete the system. for what it's worth the performance of these speakers are more than what i expected. for the price i paid i don't see why i would need to spend $thousands more for a higher end speaker when so far all i've heard were good reviews from here and audioholics forum. there are those who will always chime in and discredit emptek.

Thanks for the recomendations Krell44. I'm a total audio layman. I'm going to look into that Dac primarily because I have no idea what it is. I admit listening to audio through my pc's optical out isn't the best method, it's just the best method I have right now. I can assure you all the Pink Floyd is FLAC as are many others and most other albums are 320 kbps. I was suprised at the auto eq software included with this mobo. I clicked the loud preset and it was like my 750 watt psu was pushing the music and not that HTIB Onkyo I have. Listening to cd's through the ps3 now sounds like I have pillows over my ears. The music just came alive through this motherboard. I'm hesitant to purchase a 7.1 card because I want don't want it to cancel out the preset I'm currently using. Love it!

Remember I don't have the larger E55ti's. The pictures should allow you to see what I'm dealing with here. I ran audyssee (spelling?) and wasn't happy with the results. I turned the sub off and re-ran it. Much better. When I switch the fronts to "large" the bass sounds like that of a low quality speaker. That's why I was thinking maybe it needs more power, even with blu-ray audio. The room that this is in is just ridiculous. File it under things that should not be. Nothing sane about it at all. I've been trapped in that insipid den of suffering for over a year and a half often near death. Dreams die here. Lol, where am I at, what am I doing? Oh yeah, when I turn the sub on and turn the fronts back to "small" it sounds pretty darn good. I don't get that kick in the chest I'm looking for from the combination of the drummer, the bass player, and the six/seven/eight string guitar player when the palm mute happens simultaneously with the others. I can't help but think that two of those RBH T series speakers would give me the desired effect I seek. That defibrillator thud to the chest a powerful mid can create. I'm accepting donations.

My new receiver will be here tomorrow and I'll be sure to update my impressions of the E5ti's shortly after.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah......ok..... I'm going to tell somebody who just bought some decent entry level speakers who is moving up from a HTIB and is running things out of optical on his computer to do what you just said. I'm pretty sure anybody who is going to start their first real HT would look at you if you gave that advice....smile...nod....and move on. As for your EMP's....glad you like them. Comparing them to Polk is about the worst benchmark since Polk has inflated mids and boomy bass. The Monitor series from Polk is pretty much their entry level that they sell at BB. The LSI 7's are a small bookshelf....I HOPE the Emp's are more dynamic than those!! Give yourself a little lesson.....buy some nice speakers from Ascend, Paradigm, PSB, etc and tell me if you still think that wonderous silk dome is still.......ummmmm....wonderous......

Class dismissed.....

So just what is an "entry-level speaker!? Please define that for me, since when I hear that, I hear "boy you are stupid for buying those..."

Albert...my very first impression wasn't all that great either...but after listening to about 15 of my favorite songs, I realized that some of my Mp3 files are crap and that when I found a decent quality mp3, the speakers sounded way better than what I was listening to them on and most of the speakers I had heard (all "entry level", Infinity Primus, Polk Mon and Pioneer...). You have to decide what your expectations are for under 300 dollars per speaker and do they meet or exceed those expectations. Of course, they won't sound like a $3,000/pr tower!

if you don't like the speakers, you should return then. Maybe that won't be cheap, but, once you decide they are dissapointing, you will never fully embrace the speakers!

This dude is just a person that wants to bash people for having these speakers. He doesnt even own them and has no business, except for bashing people, posting in here. Just ignore him. I hope he realizes that when you say people have entry level speakers, its kind of rude. Guys do what you please and do what ever makes you happy. Let him be mad at the world and I know people like that and just think "man it sucks to be you".

Not sure how you get "Boy, you are stupid for buying those" out of somebody saying they are decent entry level speakers.......

Well, that is the way it sounds to me..."entry level" is hardly an enduring description in the world of audio! What is the criteria for the the term "entry level"? A dollar value? A certain type of driver?

Can you please explain your experience with the the EMP impression series that has lead you to your conclusions?

There is NOTHING wrong with saying speakers are entry level. All it means is that the speaker line is lower in the manufactures model line-up. It doesn't mean they are horrible......just that they cut a few corners in terms of crossovers and drivers. There is a reason they are well under $500. People who own these speakers are now starting to chime in and say how they are not as happy with these speakers with music as they are with HT. Music is where you can hear the importance of the driver and the crossover.....that is what makes these more of an entry level speaker......sorry that is insulting but it should not be. For the price point....yes...these are very good speakers.....however, to sit there and say (like many have) these sound like speakers that cost 3 times as much would just be silly. I have heard these speakers a great deal....and the 55's. I would choose them over Polk Monitor and others listed here....but again....you are comparing these with those manufactures entry level. Now put these up against the model up and I think you will see where these fade away. So yes....while they are 'entry level'....they are DECENT entry level. My point though....if you were reading what I wrote....was simply that it is silly to spend a fortune on an amp to drive them. Money is better spent on speakers......that is HT 101.

I am sorry that I don't think your speakers are the best speakers in the world...... Remember, speakers are VERY subjective. Just because I like a certain sound characteristic...doesn't mean I am right......and vice versa..

Fair enough......just commenting on how some comments can be rude if you are trying to prove a point against what people are enjoying. sometimes there is just a better way of saying things.

Class dismissed? Someone needs to brush up on their basic math skills again.

You're right. Ascend, Paradigm, PSB, and Aerial Acoustics make incredible speakers that blow these away. Those speakers also cost several thousands of dollars more than the EMPs.

These are great value speakers with above average performance for the price range. They are not entry level, and to consider them that is ignorant.

The same line of thinking went into my setup. My JBL 190's cannot match an Aerial 7T overall, but they have incredible imaging that blow away my friend's Axiom M80s, Aperions, and several other high end speakers. The kicker was I only spent $230 on a brand new pair. You tell me where you can get similar performance for the price and maybe I can take you seriously. I know full well the EMPs and 190s cannot match those speaker brands listed, but you tell me where you can spend 1/30th of the price and get 80% of the performance? Your argument will hold more weight then.

Do you mean endearing or enduring? If "enduring"....then check out the multiple threads here about people asking what some good entry level speakers would be. If "endearing" then I am sorry you feel the need to defend your speakers. Like I said....they are very decent entry level speakers.....most would call that a compliment...

As for my experience with the Impressions series... My friend was in the market for some entry level speakers for his bedroom. I suggested he look at these since they got a lot of good review and have a risk free trial. He decided to get both the 56 and the 55i. When they came in we plugged it into hi Adcom set-up. Forst impressions were that they were VERY nice looking. Pretty solid.....a bit tippy but that's to be expected. The way we audition speakers is to listen to music that shows the highs, lows and mids. highs in Orchestral music.....mids with voices....and lows with Jazz. Speakers were allowed to break in for a few days....although to me that's a myth....but he wanted to. When listening to Orchestral music I was pleasently suprised byt the highs.....however at higher volume the instruments became a bit 'strained'. Overall I liked the detail better than some older Polk RTI70's I had. When listening to voices.....that is where these lacked. The crossover simply sounded like it was deisgned more for HT as it seemed to be set a bit too high before the bass cutoff. Didn't sound full at all......no real depth. I was expecting this though as they are $500 speakers so to expect more would be silly. Through the 'Jazz test'.....the bass with there.....but it simply didn't sound 'real'. It was tight and quick but almost sounded like a boomy sound as opposed to a crisp sound. It didn't go as low as I would like but again....that is the inability of the driver/crossover.

We then compared them to some older Boston Acoustic VR20's, new Boston VS260 bookshelves, Paradigm Monitor 7, Studio 60 and Polk RTI70. Once the BA's and the Digm's were plugged in....everything opened up. They did best the Polks by a good margain however......which is why I just sold them!

So anyway......very good entry level speaker that is great for HT.....but if you want more out of your music....I would look elsewhere. Remember...this is MY opinion....doesn't mean I am right or wrong..... He decided to return them and go with Boston VS260's for the same price.

So tell me......what speakers have you compared them to? What kind of audition did you do? I would be curious to hear. Always nice to hear what people have compared.

Several thousands more? Only if you're talking about their high end offerings...

Don't forget about lines line PSB Alpha/Image... Paradigm Monitor... Ascend CBM/CMT... they certainly aren't several thousands more...

I'm not saying those blow the EMP's away... Some may though... Just like some would pick the EMP speakers.

I still don't get why so many at AVS get so butthurt when someone doesn't like a speaker they own. It's almost as if you cannot post a negative opinion of something, even if you have direct experience with that product, without other owners coming out to tear heads off.

I suppose it's because of those who really are just around to stir up crap... who badmouth something without even hearing it... I guess that type of behavior around here makes people quick to defend their own purchases.

Audio preferences are very subjective... and also very relative to other products an individual has listened to.

If you like something... just enjoy it... and don't get caught up in whether Mr. X has good things to say about it or now... or whether Mr. Y feels another product in the price class outperforms it.

Paradigm Monitor 7, Boston Acoustic VS260, Mirage OMD15, Energy RC50, Ascend 340CE, PSB T5, Aperion Audio Intimus 4T etc..... all are under $1000.....all I heard....all have better components and a flatter frequency response. None are 'thousands more'. Also...the $25o for these EMT's are B stock. They are $500 speakers.....the 55's are $750 speakers.....all at the same price point.

I'm not a Math guy......but that's pretty basic I think.....

Looks like I'm taking some flack for using an optical cable. If someone could help me understand why this is a negative I'd be grateful.

I was under the impression that the optical cable I was using was on par with HDMI audio.

Also when I look at this video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW1ewGBX3jc
then I look at the movement on my E5ti's it's not even close. There's hardly any air coming out of that back port on my E5ti's. I increase the bass until it starts sounding a little distorted and still not much movement or air. Certainly bass isn't everything and I can hear peoples saliva click against their tongues on Mad Men so the highs are fine for me. The caaaaaaarrrrrrack of the rifles in Battlefield 3 will make you seize in fear. I would just like more kick. I may have better luck with the Denon. I've been satisfied with the Denon hooked up to the bose downstairs.

Well said. I have NO IDEA how saying something as simple as I did could cause so much unrest around here......full moon coming up I think??

As far as why Albert's Fish is unhappy with the sound of his new EMP speakers... and agrees with NewToHT's "muddy" description...

Looing at the room layout, I don't think amplifier power is the issue, and I don't see the AVR1712 not being plenty for that room size.

Perhaps we should point out the speaker placement, and how both towers are tucked into corners. This is a great way to accentuate the upper bass and muddy up the lower midrange...

It looks like the towers are pulled out from the rear wall a good bit... but they're still in a corner... Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there is much to be done in the way of placement.

Audyssey might help a bit here... but maybe some room treatments are in order. Places like ATS Acoustics and Acoustimac offer relatively inexpensive options... and that may be worth looking in to. I'd argue that addressing the room acoustics would be way more worthwhile that buying a DAC or external amp.

Of course, the source material has to be up to par too... and as already pointed out... MP3's can be a great way to make nice speakers sound... less nice... although some folks would say high enough quality MP3's are indistinguishable from FLAC/WAV... but that debate could be an entire thread (and I'm sure it is elsewhere on the forum).

Sorry, yes, I meant endearing...much like I think you meant FIRST impressions.

And I compared the EMPs with Polk M70s, Infinity primus p363 and the pioneer Andrew Jones towers...all speaker exactly in the price range of these (under 500 dollars per pair). To compare the EMP smaller towers to speakers at or over 1000 per pair, well, that is like having a welterweight box a middleweight!

Okay, so we just differ in opinion about these speakers, no problem and you likely have a lot more experience than I do. While I get that these are not high end speakers...i just feel that when people throw out the "entry level" description, they are "labeling" your purchase as cheap. i prefer to look at it as I got a good deal without spending a lot of money...

And in no way would I describe these speakers as muddy. Very clear and detailed...perhaps lacking some at the lower end, but not muddy.

I already told you.....



We already know that you dont care for these speakers because you have expressed it to us for the past few months. It just seems like you are trying to convince us that these speakers are not all that great.