HD-SDI 1080P23.93 on a SIM2 HT5000

Im having trouble with the output from a Teranex doing 480 to 1080P23.98 on a SIM2 HT5000. The D-Cine SIM2 division calls this projector the Pro5000.

The output from the Teranex is fine when displayed on other display devices. The projector however shows a picture that is 1/3 shifted off screen. This projector has no picture position adjustments for HD-SDI inputs.

SIM2 has not responded to repeated requests on this issue.

Does anyone here have any experience feeding a HT5000 at 1080P23.98 ?

yes, This does not work at all. No lock.. Also the Pro5000 does not list this as a supported format, which makes sense as sf is more of a tape format not a display format.

1080I59.94 works, but of course is not ideal..

Also, I noticed that my thread title said 23.94, this is obviously wrong, I meant 23.98...

Really ? Interesting..

Do you know which it works with and which it does not ? I know it works with Sony BVM's. My experience has been that the Teranex has extreme compliance with standards and that the display device is always at fault in subtle ways. At least thats so far in my experience.

What pattern generator worked where the teranex did not ?

Also what part of the spec does the trex not comply with if you know ?

I will submit a query to my friends at Trex.. I will also ask some guys who left Trex some time back who have some in depth knowledge of this subject..

Overall however I would still like to hear from anyone who has used 1080P23.98 successfully on the SIM2 HT5000 or Pro5000.

Even more interesting !

Good stuff... Thanx !

I have sent a few emails to the Teranex boys, we shall see. I have some contacts, no longer at Teranex, who can prob give me a good answer as well.

I wonder what in the world could technically be different in the bit stream ? This is interesting in itself. I thought 292M was 292M. If there is more then one way that the 23.98 format can exist then I would think that the display devices should allow for this and still display it. I still feel that the display manufacturer is the one who should help with this issue.

I wonder if the HT5000/Pro5000 implements this stuff in hardware or software updatable firmware ?

Good info, thanks again

Hmmmmmmm......

Looking at the standard,,, it seems the only thing that seems to have any effect that might shift my picture is the flag bits on the 4th word. These define horiz blanking and various things like 'start of active video' and 'end of active video'. Also the "F" bit is the difference between P and SF.

Again I think its up to the display to correctly render these flag bits.

I am still thinking that Teranex is implementing these correctly but that the display is not rendering them correctly.

But who knows. I would need a damn expensive protocol analyzer to sort this one out.

I have sent a email today to the HQ at Sim2 and I got a response right away that their offices are closed until the 7th and that I will get a response once they reopen. I would imagine that they have someone who can sort this out.

Hi Alan !!!!!!! Been a while it has

I did the above post while you were doing yours...

But I think it makes sense in your description of the problem... The bits I describe define porch...

Well we will see what comes from Trex and Sim2...

Alan are you using the newest Teranex hardware, the "P4" stuff ?

Maybe I can get the Teranex guys together with the Sim2 guys and work it out.


Well Alan, I hope your doing well. I am still doing good. So far so good

The every few second blank out sounds like the difference between 24 and 23.98. Remember the output from a DVD is 23.98 cuz its coming from a 480 59.94, it does take BluRay to get real 24.

Or,,, the Teranex can do a demo mode where it blanks out every few seconds on formats you have not paid for. If you are paid up then you need to talk to them and get your keys fixed.

I have started a discussion with the guys at Teranex. I have sent in the suspicion that we are having a timing issue with a number of projectors.

I would bet that Teranex is outputting a "legal" signal per HD-SDI specs but that display devices are having trouble rendering it.. I did confirm with a friend in a post house that Teranex 23.98 is no problem with gear like VTR's and servers. Even Avid work stations seem to work ok with its output... Soooo it seems that displays are having the trouble.

I do gotta point out tho that even running 1080i59.94 output, upconversion from the Teranex is pretty amazing stuff.. I still want to eliminate the 3:2 tho and do 23.98.

Stupid question 101,,, what does the Sim2 produce from a 23.98 input ?.. IE does the DLP output really change at 23.98 ? or is there some internal conversion to some other frame rate ? I would hate to go through all this effort only to discover that the projector converts the 23.98 back to a p59.94 adding back in the 3:2... The Sim2 is not a DC 2K DMD engine..

Hmmmm another stupid question,,,

I wonder if the Teranex is producing 2048 rather then 1920. That might explain it.

Well it will be interesting ! I think its gonna be both and neither. I think the Teranex is doing something odd but legal per the HD-SDI spec. I also think that the projector should still render it because it is legal per the spec even tho it is odd.

A Sony BVM displays it just fine.

I think a Teranex is not normally used as a display driver and we are experiencing something most people don't see because it is hooked to gear like VTR's and post stuff. These flag bits might not even be looked at if your a VTR or server.

I wish i could see what the flag bits were for both the Teranex and the output of a S&W pattern generator doing 23.98. Im not quite clear on what are legal timings. I cant seem to find this part of the spec anywhere.

Sim2 seems VERY happy to help,, once the factory reopens after a long holiday after the 7th. Teranex has the support request, however it might take some days for this to go to the people who wrote the code for this.

We shall see.....

ANYone else who might have some insight into this, or knows more about the flag bits and legal timings please post, pvt message me or email.