The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 66  

alex actually has inventory? or did you just get on the reserve list?

Well i put my order in and they will be getting inventory next week. I'm in no rush since they confirmed it wouldn't arrive this week and would have loved to watch the pacquiao fight tomorrow on it!! Oh well!! But dealing with Alex and Pat has been a very pleasant experience.

I calibrated my 500M in Pure mode for a moderaly dim to dark nightime viewing environment - about 32fL. I was targeting this calibration for my SA8300HD, so I set the blu-ray player to 1080i/60/RGB to eliminate as many variables as possible (to do: check 720p RGB for any differences). I am using an i1Pro meter, a DTP94 with a calibration file built from the i1Pro for the 500M (for more consistent low stimulus readings), HCFR, and AVSHD. At this point I have changed only the User and RBG grayscale controls; I have not made any changes to the CMS controls.

Pre-Calibration RGB Balance:
Pure, Contrast 35, Bright 1, Color + 6, Tint 0, Gamma 2, all Pro Adjust settings at defaults, Color Temp: Manual 0,0,0,0,0,0:

This results in a 6200k to 6400k color temp - very good out of the box performance. The gamma was an almost perfect 2.22. One thing that was interesting is that when I switched to Color Space 1, the RGB levels stayed the same. And Color Space 1 looks suspiciously similar to a PDP5020 on the CIE chart.

Post-Calibration RGB, CIE, and Gamma:






My calibrated settings:
Input 5 Sony BDP-350
Signal 1080i/60 RGB (for SA8300HD)
Mode: Pure
Cont 37
Bright 1
Color 7
Tinit 0
Sharpness -15
Color Temp Manual:
RH -4
GH 0
BH -2
RL -3
GL 0
BL -1
Gamma 2
Pro Adjust:
Film Mode off
Text Optimization off
Intelligent Mode off
DRE off
Black Level off
ACL off
Enhancer Mode 2(natural)
CTI off
Color Management:
R 0
Y 0
G 0
C 0
B 0
M 0
Color Space 2
3DNR off
field NR off
block NR off
mosquito NR off
I-P mode 1
drive mode 1

Note that not all of these setting effect the measurements. And of course, you may get completely different results using these on your 500M.

jdbimmer--

Those are great results. It's interesting to me that your gamma out-of-the-box was 2.22. I ran my 500M in pure mode with the default settings and got more like 1.9, which is what I ended up with in user mode as well. I guess I can't blame HCFR, since you used it too.

I have never measured a display that was this accurate - it's amazing.

I thought that you got 1.95 in standard mode, and 2.1 or something in Pure.? Part of the difference may be in the higher peak output levels you used. Also, in your standard settings, your DRE=low setting may lower the gamma as well, but I am not sure about this. I did notice that DRE extended (or remapped) both BTB and WTW so that way below 16 and above 235 were visible on a test pattern. This leads me to believe that DRE may effect gamma, but I will have to test it to be sure.

Below is my gamma curve for pure, with the out-of-the-box default settings.

Something must be going on with my meter, or something, as I got very similar results with user mode, and also when I calibrated my Epson 1080UB projector. At least to my eye, the images don't look like the gamma is off.

I think the default Gamma setting for Pure is 3 and I must have changed it to 2 for my out-of-the-box reading (I changed Contrast, Brightness and Gamma for that measurement). Could that be part of the difference?

Here's the effect of DRE on gamma. Increasing the setting does throw off the curve at the upper end (I didn't try high, but I suspect it's more of the same). These were using my User settings, which include gamma setting #1, which is highest:

DRE off:






DRE low:






DRE mid:

My out-of-the-box readings were truly the default settings; I used the "reset" function in the menu. The different gamma setting you used would account for some of the difference, but probably not all of it.

Eric,
It could be your meter, but I can't be sure. I suggest measuring grayscale in Pure mode with something like my "out-of-the-box" setting - Con 36, Bright 1, Gamma 2, CTemp Low. Then compare the Y values in HCFR's Gray Scale measures with the "Gamma Y" values in the last row (scroll down) of the numbers. Those are the target Y values for the 2.2 gamma reference. If they don't agree, first try adjusting brightness to see if you can get your 10% Y values close to the Gamma Y value. Then re-measure the rest of the grayscale and see if the other measures follow the curve correctly.

What source are you using - PS3, other blu-ray player? If the source output is RGB, is it set for 16-235 and the 500M is set to 16-235 as well?
JD

I'm using a series 3 TiVo connected via HDMI. I converted the AVS disc test patterns to MPEG-2 and transferred them to the TiVo. Maybe there's something weird about the conversion software I used, but then again the W6RZ test patterns, already in MPEG-2 format, produced the same results. I guess that leaves the TiVo itself. (It doesn't have any pertinent settings.)

I'll experiment more next time I have the meter out, but as I recall I did try lower contrast numbers and got a similar gamma curve.

There is no need to convert the patterns to MPEG-2. The TiVo will play MP4 videos, as is.


The 11.x software added native MPEG-4 and VC1 support to the TivoHD. With Streambaby, you can stream MP4 files to the TiVo, as is, without any reprocessing or reencoding. I uploaded a high-definition screen capture showing MP4 playback right here.

Can anyone comment or PM me where to get the KRP-600M? I can't seem to find this monitor anywhere online.

Thank you

It has been mentioned many times in this thread already. Please call forum sponsors and you will find them there. Its the best place to start anyways. Take care!

I wish that turbe was still following this thread -- I have a feeling that this question has been asked a couple of times and it would be nice to get the information in the first post (along with post links to various people's settings ala the "famous" elite-home/D-Nice settings here).

Robert is looking for a Pioneer KRP-WM01 for me -- Pioneer's wall mount for the KRP-600M -- but there's a good chance that there won't be any to be had anywhere. So what are people's suggestions for good, high-quality wall mounts for the 600M? I have no need of tilt, etc., I just want to mount it flat against the wall -- preferably the closer the better as long as sufficient ventilation remains.

Or, if anyone knows where there's a "secret stash" of KRP-WM01's from which I can order that would be great!

Casey

Well AFAIK, pretty much nobody has them in stock at the moment. They were having something like a 40% breakage rate in shipping. Re-packing them combined with Pioneer's end of the financial year inventory has delayed shipments for over a month.

40% breakage rate. You've got to be kidding.
Why so much?

Nope.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129322

Nobody seems to be entirely clear on exactly why, but best guess is that Pioneer tried to shave a couple of dollars on the packaging. Not like it would be the first time a company was penny wise and pound foolish.

Doing some more research, here are some of the alternatives that I've found so far. Anyone have any thoughts or reviews on these:

• Pioneer KRP-WM01
• Sanus VMPL3
• Peerless SF670
• Chief LSMU

The Chief looks attractive because of the move the display back and forth (17.5") and up and down (8.75") after install but I'm not really sure how valuable that would be considering my intent is to mount it once and forget it ...

Casey

... And I see that RichB did a similar search for KRP-600M wall mount options and summarized that on page 6 of this thread here.

Casey

I'm back with an another almost complete calibration to report. This time feeling more confident, but knowing I have still more to learn.

This is for XBMC running on my HTPC (Mythbuntu 9.04). I have to say unless you are running this setup, these settings will probably do you no good. What others say about the different results for different sources is very true.

I did not adjust the CMS yet. Comments and suggestions are most welcomed.

Next up will be Pure with the PS3.

Thanks,
pbjr.

Almost forgot, the settings are in the post pdf.

 

600M Pure Pre 2009-05-02.pdf 164.3955078125k . file

 

600M Pure Post 2009-05-03 Better.pdf 156.1962890625k . file

I'm just learning about this stuff myself, but I think your contrast is too high. That leads to the blue not being able to keep up with the light output at 100%, resulting in the grayscale curves diverging at the top. Otherwise, everything looks great.

eelton, thanks for the comments. Yes, you are correct I am sacrificing at 100 to achieve an overall higher light output. I noticed D-Nice did this with elitehome's 600M. To get the brightness correct at 100 would get me in the 31-32fl range.

I'm really surprised how D-Nice got EH's up to almost 37fl. This was the best I could do. I hope it is something that I am missing. I would be very happy with a perfect 35fl for my dark room.

Can anyone comment on how much the max light output can vary with the same model TV and source?

Inter-display variation could certainly account for some of the difference between your 34 ftL and D-Nice's 37. Your pre-calibration grayscale is off a bit more than what I've seen of x00M models, which speaks to the variability between units.

As I've found, the size of the window displayed also makes a difference in peak light output--potentially a big one; I found a 10ftL difference between the AVS disc windows and a moderately larger one.

Anyone use the Xbox 360 on the 500M, or even the 600M?

I get weird issues when I use the VGA cable for the 360 on my 500M. I would be watching a movie and the brightness and how red skin tones are would just change on the fly. Randomly? Why is that? Anyone seeing this issue or mind testing this as well.

Works fine over component. By the way, the upscaling over VGA is amazing when watch regular DVDs on my 360. It's night and day between component outputting 480p. Was shocked!!! But the issue annoys me when I see it.

10ftl? Wow, that is good to know. I have both DVE and AVS discs and I think the DVE is a little larger than the AVS. That could very well explain it.

Well I have had my set for a couple of weeks now and feel that it was definitely worth the upgrade from my old 5020. I think I noticed some very minor banding though which bothers me somewhat. My PS3 loaded up this morning and was on the dark green default background of the system. I thought I noticed some very light banding (up and down lines or bars) but I don't know if it was my mind playing tricks on me (that and I have been reading to many of the problem threads with the Kuro's.......lol). I changed the background color of the PS3 to every other color available (7-8 colors I believe) and could not see this minor banding at all. Maybe I am imagining it but it seems strange I would only notice it on the dark green color. I have a little over 100 hours on the panel so far so maybe I just need to give it more time (I don't remember having to on my other Kuro panels). On a positive note, this tv has less DSE than my 5020 which was already great in that regard. The buzzing is slightly annoying but not a deal breaker. I watched Iron Man last night and only could hear it when there was no dialogue at all which was very rare. I will say that the Save 2 option really does eliminate 95% of it and doesn't really degrade my picture (just darkens it a bit). I am probably obsessing over it as every technology is going to have issues.

Overall though I love it and feel the picture is superior to the 5020 without a doubt. To me this was a worthy upgrade (I honestly didn't feel that way fully about the upgrade from my old 5080 to the 5020).


Update: Checked the settings again this morning and I can still only see the so called banding (still don't know if that is what it is) on the dark green background on the PS3. I changed some of the settings on the tv but nothing helps (I am using elite-home's settings and they are great to begin with). I don't think it's DSE but at this point I am not sure. I did bring up the menu screen and then turned down the contrast to 0 to see if I could see any lines. I did notice some ghosting to the right of the menu screen when it was pulled up but I believe that is normal with plasma's when you turn down the contrast to 0. It's just very strange that I only notice these light bands on the green screen. As stated though I have been reading a lot of problem threads lately which in turn makes me want to check my tv for the same issues (huge mistake I know.....lol ). Maybe I am imagining it or it's just normal (or I'm to anal......lol). I have watched several blu-rays and have not seen this banding (even paused the green preview screen message before a movie preview and couldn't see them). My tv has minor DSE like all of my previous Pioneers but I think this is different. Of course I never paid much attention to this until reading about it.

why not just copy those settings and tweak from there for any variance in your set? ive read that alot of people used those same exact settings and were highly pleased.

PBJunior2--

If you're concerned about light output, and since you're doing your own calibration, you could use standard or user mode and still get a very accurate result. I was able to get 52 ftL from user mode, although I dialed it back to 47 in order to get a flat gamma reading. (Those measurements are with the AVS disc 100% window.)

Cant wait to see the results!