The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 72  

I bought a 6020 (which came with a stand) for about $3k. If you really need a stand, the 141 (+stand) for $4k sound likes a great deal....especially from a local B&M.

thanks man, wasn't sure if it would be worth the extra $$ over the 600M since i figured they were pretty much the same as far as specs go - i've never seen the 600M in person, but man i love that 141 and think i'd be more than happy with it for the next few years or more.

still a little on the fence here, but appreciate the input man

thank you for input. i am new to all this, i cant even load a file the right way lol. you are correct, i used full screen colors for primary and secondary measurements (edge), but white was also a full screen. it was just easier, and i dont really understand the Y value for colors. i guess i can try to lower my red channel to maybe 97% and see what that looks like. where you able to view my attachment for my post calibration greyscale and primary tests? i really havent figured out whats the best way. if so what do you think of results. i really dont have any experience with calibrations. for example when i run contrast at 39 the color blue on my gamma curve takes a nose dive. why is this bad?

johnnyb05,

Always use window patterns (with the black border around the color or white pattern) for plasma - do not use full screen patterns. The % does not refer to the window size, it refers to the % stimulus or amplitude of the pattern. For grayscale you will obviously use the 0% to 100% windows. For color (HCFR's primary/secondary combo measure), use the 75% color windows and a 75% white window. HCFR will then calculate it's basic color decoder % errors and deltaE's for each color (more on this later). What source are you using for the patterns - AVSHD, GetGray DVDs or something else?

I did see your post-cal colors (with the wrong white % reading), but I don't think you posted the post-grayscale numbers - both pre and post numbers were the same. Upload the HCFR .chc files - that would be easier.

The blue gamma dip at 39 contrast shows that you are beginning to clip. If you want more light output, use User or Standard mode.

Without using a reference meter, there is no way to be sure that shooting for a lower red value during grayscale measurements will be correct, but if you get your grayscale close to D65 (.3127/.329) and it looks green/blue then it might be worth trying.

I would recommend starting with getting the grayscale right, maybe even resetting the CMS values to 0. Then take a look at the deltaE and % in HCFR's color measures (or use one of the free spreadsheets in the Calibration forums) and adjust the Color control to get the best trade-off. At that point you could use the CMS to try and tweak, and that will require some fine tuning of the grayscale and color again.

Attachment 142383 this is with the setting i posted earlier. iam using my edge VP to supply the test patterns. i can use the color bars pattern, but have too move the meter around. i dont know if that gives as good results as window patterns. the edge doesnt have window patterns for colors.

Attachment 142384

 

Color contrast 39.pdf 19.1083984375k . file

 

Color contrast 39, primaries.pdf 18.5361328125k . file

I am not that familiar with that DVDO box, but using the color bars or full screen color windows will most liklely effect the luminance (Y) readings for the colors, and possibly impact chromaticity (xy) points a little as well. When you combine those variables with the D2's limitations, you may actually be introducing more error by changing the CMS controls.

Even considering those possible errors, your CIE chart looks pretty good. However, there is no way to tell how the color decoder is performing without having the correct white reference value in your color measure - hence, the deltaE and delta luma values shown are useless. Do you have a DVD or Blu-ray player? The Calibration forum has 2 free pattern disks you can burn and use for the color measurements.

The grayscale looks okay with the exception of 90-100% where it looks like it is clipping. Overall, I would expect the picture to look good to very good (and maybe better with contrast set to 37) in a room with low lighting. If it doesn't, then I would suspect the meter's accuracy is the main problem.

Sorry all, I didn't have time to get to this. Probably in another day or two.

Did you manage to try it yet?

Quick question about ISFccc... calibrating the night mode, will this mean ligher blacks because of more light output? Or is the difference insignificant?

What is the difference between Pure mode light output and ISF night output?

I only ask in case my next 500m comes cracked. Then I am going to think about just getting a 111fd

did you mean isf day? i think i remember reading reports of isf night mode being calibrated to 18fl average. thats way under the pure factory setting. isf day has been reported to be up in the 55fl range with no colorshift whatsoever. pure mode has been reported to create a colorshift in the upper 30's of the contrast setting. i think above 37.

So if I am only choosing to watch TV at night, it sounds like I do not need the ISFccc stuff then.

Is 40+fl too much for night mode? My panny is at 32-34fl right now and that is more than enough I feel like

sounds like your right in the ballpark and shouldnt need any isf calibrations unless you feel you need it for other reasons than light output. my panny is also in that range and i find it suitable for daytime also. but ya, your more than good for nighttime viewing.

Of course I will always want better color accuracy, but for the price I got the 500m, a 111fd would cost be $1000 more from best buy. I just graduated college and as much as I want to get the 111fd and get it calibrated, I rather put that $1000 to a subwoofer and a nice couch

But if my next TV comes cracked, I may change my mind

Thanks Roman. That's one of the wall mounts I was looking at. I listed several here and RichB also listed several here. Two that I listed in addition to the Pioneer KRP-WM01 and the Peerless SF670 are the Sanus VMPL3 and the Chief LSMU. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any review comparisons between these and other wall mounts. I'm interested in finding something that pretty much works out of the box without having to resort to visiting a local machine shop and also mounts it fairly close to the wall (I have no need for tilt, etc.) Is there a thread somewhere which compares wall mounts? I was even thinking of asking this question in the Pioneer PDP-141 Owners thread since I think that the PDP-141 and the KRP-600M have identical mounting holes ...

Casey

I'm in the same boat. I'm sure all of these are good mounts, but for me, specifically, I'd like to find out the one that keeps the plasma closest to the wall, i.e. lowest profile. If you come across this info, I'm sure everyone here would appreciate it. I'll do the same.

sanus vmpl3. 1.25" total depth total for flat flush mount. 2.5" for tilt mount.

Any sponsors/dealers to buy from that ship from the East Coast?

A local dealer here in Texas has several 500's instock with stands. They dont have any 600's though but claims they can order them.

They are super cheap IMO as they claim they got a great deal with their buying group? They are giving the stands away free. I checked the dealer on Pioneers site and they are indeed listed.

PM me if interested and I will hook you up with them.

No sorry not yet. Was letting the burn in finish and mother in-law was over this weekend so no fooling with my toys.

I am going to do it this weekend for sure if not sometime this week.

Well from the prices I checked a week ago on the 600m thats still about 1000k less then your 141 price plus the stand for about $200, so its about $800 difference which is no small amount. You may be able to get the stand for free like I did on the 500m I ordered.

I am not going to get into a which is better discussion because I only know what I have read here from other forum posts but I can tell you that my 500m is disgustingly good looking. The common consensus though is that unless you are going to have your set professionally calibrated the tv's are essentially the same for most people.

I guess it all comes down if you want the ISF modes for professional calibration, how much of a videophile you are, and how much that 800-1000 dollar difference weighs in.

I dont know if anyone has posted yet who has gotten the latest batch of 600m's but the rumor is they have sorted the packaging issues out so the shipping should not be an issue anymore.

I am looking for a stand for the 600M and I was wandering if the PDK-1015 Table Top Stand would fit??any help would be much appreciated.

My understanding is that if you are in a light controlled room, there isn't a difference. On the other hand, if your room is not light controlled and is fairly bright in the daytime, then the ISF mode for daytime viewing cranks up the brightness. So it comes down to your room/viewing environment.

Been using my broken-in 500m for a couple weeks now and the picture is great! I used D-Nice's settings but the only thing that bothers me is sometimes whites look very dim or yellow/greyish. Is this normal? I don't really have any issues with the brightness, even during the day, but the whites seem off to me.

I am trying to decide if I need to call a tech to come out. I am getting strange banding on my 500m and I don't know if it is normal. I can see horizontal lines on the screen and notice it on some PS3 backgrounds. It's not horrible but it is noticeable. I am also seeing ghosting when I bring up the menu (the menu ghosts/extends to the right). Many of the PS3 backgrounds have a layerd look to the color (looks like banding but it might be the source). I also noticed it on the calibration white screen on the Wall E blu ray (you can see the bands/lines going across). Last night while playing Assassin's Creed I could see faint horizontal lines all over the screen whenever I looked up at the sky. They aren't major but again I don't remember seeing this on my other Kuro's. This isn't dirty screen as I know what that is (the set has a little of that to, but nothing major). Can anyone with a 500m check this? I just want to be sure before I call a tech out.

I originally posted about this in another thread but didn't get much response from fellow 500m/600m owners. Here is the link with a little more description of what I am seeing. Thanks again to everyone and sorry if I seem overly anal about this issue .

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1146235

Yotr - I don't have a PS3 although I did look at some of my DVR menus where I can see banding on my HD8 Panasonic, and I don't see any on the Kuro.

I don't see any of the described issue on my 600m. Does it only happen on your PS3? Have you try different HDMI cable and ports? If you exhausted all avenues, I think you should get a tech out to take a look at your set.

Thanks for the response. Do you see any banding when you bring up the menu for the tv though? That's the only place I see very light banding (it's very light and can only been seen more if I lower the contrast). Also, if you have a blu ray player, do you notice any light banding or "layered colors" in the background on still screens? I noticed some on the Wall E blu ray when I went into the setup menu on the disc where you can calibrate your settings. I can see it on the white screen with the various Pixar characters. That's also how I noticed it on the PS3 because they are static background images.

I tested each gamma setting last night in Pure mode. Here are the results:

Gamma 1: 2.28
Gamma 2: 2.22
Gamma 3: 2.14
Gamma 4: 2.10
Gamma 5: 2.04

All the results follow the luminance curve (i.e., they are flat in the Gamma graph) almost perfectly.

I also noticed that Standard and User mode have more of an S-curve on Gamma setting 1,2, & 3, but I need to re-measure them to be sure.

YOTR- I looked for it on the TV menu but didn't see any banding with the still DVR menu background. I will look at my Blu-ray menus later, but so far I haven't noticed any.

As far as I can tell I have noticed it on the PS3 and XBOX 360. I don't believe I have seen it on my HD DVR because many times the feed is not the best (even high def on the DVR isn't as clear as blu ray obviously). If you have a PS3, you can't see any banding or layered color on any of the background colors correct? The easiest one to see it on is the Metal Gear Solid 4 wallpaper on the PS Store. When I installed that, the top area of the screen had a grey layered look to the wallpaper (like different shades of grey). I assumed this was just the source or wallpaper being low res. I also noticed this layed color look in the PS Store on the blue background. It isn't horrible but definitely noticeable. Those instances don't look like banding to me. It seems like it is the source. I have tried different cables and even moved stuff around power wise to make sure. It just seems weird to me that I am the only person noticing this. The set arrived safely and I have had no quirks with it other than this issue. My wife thinks I am being way to anal about it but then again I have had enough Pioneer plasma's over the last few years to know what to look for if there is an issue. Again I only noticed it once on the XBOX and that was last night while playing Assassin's Creed. This time though it looks like very very faint horizontal lines (very small/thin at that, not the normal large banding lines) that could only been seen if you were a few feet from the set. It wasn't overly dramatic.