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The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 94  

post #2791 of 4963
6/2/09 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Tonight's cast of characters include PG[rgb]. I was sort of sure I tried these before but it would seem not. The attached data is with GMM:2 DRP:1 and PG[rgb]:8. rgb clearly needs work but the main point is that the gamma droop is mostly gone.

If I manage to get something I'm happy with I'll post an update.

Is "PG[rgb]:8" a setting or are you referring to the Point Gamma graph?
Your gamma numbers do look better (where is 10%?) but be aware that the default Calman Point Gamma graph's small size and large y-axis scale (0-5) tends to hide the small changes at each point.
Your luminance chart looks excellent - that was with Color @3?

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post #2792 of 4963
6/2/09 at 10:15pm
I have a question, and it may be silly, but I am not familiar with the quality of video processing in general. I know the HQV realta chip is better than the HQV reon chip which is better than the farouja DCDi chip.

However, I am curious as to where the KRP-500M's processing would stand up to these processing chips. I'm talking about scaling and de-interlacing. If I were to get a receiver with a reon, would I be better off letting the pio do the processing jobs or the reon?

I've got a receiver with the anchor bay ABT1010 in it, but it's not that great. I'm hoping someone will know the answer to this, but if not, no worries.

Thanks.
post #2793 of 4963
6/2/09 at 10:19pm
Considering a 500m and looking for a stand. A guy local to me has a stand that he says came off of a '07 elite but can anyone confirm by chance?

The legs are 20" apart and I have a crappy picture he provided.

He couldn't find a model # or anything other than some #s that Google couldn't relate to.

009285

z8163

thanks in advance
LL
post #2794 of 4963
6/3/09 at 4:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Is "PG[rgb]:8" a setting or are you referring to the Point Gamma graph?(where is 10%?)

I used the monitor P Gamma settings (PGR PGG PGB). There are presets for 1.6 to 2.4 and 8 is nominally 2.3 but my meter says they run lower than advertised. My i1 has decided not to read below 3% so I'm using the 9 point (20-100) run. I assume those values reflect the common practice of ignoring below 20.

Quote:


... be aware that the default Calman Point Gamma graph's small size and large y-axis scale (0-5) tends to hide the small changes at each point.

Yeah, that's why I included the numbers.

Quote:


Your luminance chart looks excellent - that was with Color @3?

Yes.
post #2795 of 4963
6/3/09 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tly View Post

Considering a 500m and looking for a stand.

I used to suggest a PDK-TS23 because they could be had quite reasonably. Now I'm not so sure.
post #2796 of 4963
6/3/09 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I used the monitor P Gamma settings (PGR PGG PGB). There are presets for 1.6 to 2.4 and 8 is nominally 2.3 but my meter says they run lower than advertised. My i1 has decided not to read below 3% so I'm using the 9 point (20-100) run.

I think you lost me on the presets - are these Calman settings? Sorry for being dense.

Also, would you be able to pull and post the config for Optimum mode using netcat? I am curious as to which Pro Adjust settings Optimum uses.
post #2797 of 4963
6/3/09 at 6:46am
I played around with the PS3 settings last night and what I found (on my 500m):

PS3: YCC and Limited
Kuro: Auto
=Correct black level

PS3: RGB, Limited
Kuro: Auto
=Incorrect black level

PS3: RGB, Full
Kuro: Auto
=Correct black level

For RGB, Full I did not test for picture quality but in terms of black levels the first method and the third method should work for everyone unless Pioneer made a change to the TVs firmware at some point (or receivers are screwing up).
post #2798 of 4963
6/3/09 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

I think you lost me on the presets - are these Calman settings?

Yes, they have 21, 11, 9, 5 and 4 point presets for those who don't want to edit the xml.

Quote:


Also, would you be able to pull and post the config for Optimum mode

Sure, but some parameters don't have a read option e.g. P Gamma. How annoying is that?

Given these parameters:
Code:
AVMode                  TextOpt                 Drive
Input                   C-Temp                  ACL
Brite                   Rhigh                   Esave
Cont                    Ghigh                   IPmode
Color                   Bhigh                   Intell
Tint                    Rlow                    RoomLit
Sharp                   Glow                    SizeMod
DRE                     Blow                    BlkNR
Gamma                   CMS-R                   FieldNR
C-Space                 CMS-G                   Moskito
PureCin                 CMS-B                   3dNR
Enhance                 CMS-C                   Gamectl
BlakStr                 CMS-M
CTI                     CMS-Y
It looks like Optimum does this relative to (my adjusted) Pure:
Code:
+DRE           DRPS02
+Gamma         GMMS03
+C-Space       CSMS01
+Enhance       ENHS02
+BlakStr       BLKS01
+CTI           CTIS01
+TextOpt       TOPS01
+C-Temp        CTPS03
+ACL           ACLS01
+Intell        ITMS01
+BlkNR         BNRS01
+FieldNR       FNRS02
+Moskito       MORS01
+3dNR          NR3S02
post #2799 of 4963
6/3/09 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

[/code]
It looks like Optimum does this relative to (my adjusted) Pure:
Code:
+DRE           DRPS02
+Gamma         GMMS03
+C-Space       CSMS01
+Enhance       ENHS02
+BlakStr       BLKS01
+CTI           CTIS01
+TextOpt       TOPS01
+C-Temp        CTPS03
+ACL           ACLS01
+Intell        ITMS01
+BlkNR         BNRS01
+FieldNR       FNRS02
+Moskito       MORS01
+3dNR          NR3S02

Thank you, that is very interesting. Are you sure the Pure mode settings affect these?

I am not surprised that has a lot of the processing features turned on, but it does surprise me that it uses Colorspace 1. Then again, CS1's oversaturation is probably more apealing for a "set and forget" mode.
post #2800 of 4963
6/3/09 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Are you sure the Pure mode settings affect these?

Not 100%. I may take a few minutes this evening to compare User/Standard/Optimum/Pure on an used resolution since that should be comparing factory defaults. I suppose I should see what a reset to Factory does too.

If you could read all the values this would be trivial rather than just easy.

It would also be nice if Pioneer provided a correctly annotated list of all the non-factory mode commands in a text file. Ah well.
post #2801 of 4963
6/3/09 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I played around with the PS3 settings last night and what I found (on my 500m):

PS3: YCC and Limited
Kuro: Auto
=Correct black level

PS3: RGB, Limited
Kuro: Auto
=Incorrect black level

PS3: RGB, Full
Kuro: Auto
=Correct black level

For RGB, Full I did not test for picture quality but in terms of black levels the first method and the third method should work for everyone unless Pioneer made a change to the TVs firmware at some point (or receivers are screwing up).


I dont recommend putting the PS3 on YcC and limited. Reason being is that when you play blu-rays, the black levels are correct. But the moment you play a video game, you will get incorrect black levels. Odd but true if I can remember correctly from my trials...
post #2802 of 4963
6/3/09 at 9:07am
Glad to hear you are still enjoying your calibrated display. Happy viewings
Quote:
Originally Posted by frustated View Post

I recently had the pleasure of welcoming D-Nice into my home to calibrate my 600M. I had followed his break in procedure, but did watch some tv programming and movies in the evenings. Prior to cal, I was very impressed with the picture (after applying elite-home's post cal settings for Pure mode), but thought that black detail was not quite there, and that overall, the picture was somewhat dim. I'm coming from a 50" Sony Grand Wega II, which was "calibrated" by me with an Avia disc. I watch mostly during the evening with only a bias light. The room is not very bright during the day, and I usually only watch sports daytime.

Calibration was straight forward except for one time-consuming glitch. My DVD player (Samsung HD950) was adequate for gray scale, but not for color management. After D-Nice switched to his pattern generator, he quickly fininshed the color adjustments. I'll leave it to you all to see the difference between pre and post cal in the attached charts.

Post cal I can definitely see more detail in blacks, and I can tell the colors are much more accurate. Pure is still slightly dim to my eyes, but I think I will get used to that. I also asked him to calibrate Standard mode, which is definitely brighter than Pure, and I will use that for daytime sports. Unfortunatly, the Calman reports for Standard were corrupted, so I can't post them. As I recall, D-Nice said the luminance was about 50 fl for Standard. BTW, he told me that it takes a 4-5 fl change to be noticed by most people.

My goal going into the cal was to get my Kuro aligned as good as possible, and to get more brightness for daytime viewing. Both of those goals were accomplished, and I'm very pleased. Highly recommend D-Nice if you're interested in a professional calibration.

And I will post some settings soon.
post #2803 of 4963
6/3/09 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I used to suggest a PDK-TS23 because they could be had quite reasonably. Now I'm not so sure.

Thanks for the reply.

Do you mean they're no longer reasonable or because the stand has issues?

Is that the stand the guy near me is selling? It sure looks like it to my newbie eyes.

thanks again!
post #2804 of 4963
6/3/09 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantGSR View Post

I dont recommend putting the PS3 on YcC and limited. Reason being is that when you play blu-rays, the black levels are correct. But the moment you play a video game, you will get incorrect black levels. Odd but true if I can remember correctly from my trials...

Interesting. Does RGB impact Picture Quality opposed to YCC? If not, then RGB/Full may be the way to go to prevent the hassle of changing the settings when flipping back and forth between games and blurays
post #2805 of 4963
6/3/09 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tly View Post

Do you mean they're no longer reasonable or because the stand has issues?

The stand is fine. It even looks nice (to me) as opposed to some of the other Pioneer units. When I got my 500 the stand was a separate item at a fraction of prices found using Google. Then they started including it in the purchase of a 500. Now it's only listed as part of a KRP-500M bundle so if they would sell one separately it might be at the same $250 everyone else wants or it might be some other price altogether.

Quote:


Is that the stand the guy near me is selling?

I don't know but you can find pictures of the ts23 on-line.
post #2806 of 4963
6/3/09 at 10:25am
That stand is on ebay for way under $100. Finding an inexpensive Krp-TS01 for the 600M, now that's another story.
post #2807 of 4963
6/3/09 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckhunt View Post

That stand is on ebay for way under $100. Finding an inexpensive Krp-TS01 for the 600M, now that's another story.

I see. And everything in the blurb I read about it is true. The "downside" is that there's less than 3 inches from the top of the base to the bottom of the bezel. My center channel comes to just below the top of the bezel and covers the Pioneer logo. I can pretend it says Elite.

Quote:


This stand may have retailed as much as $400 - it has the brushed aluminum finish and is the classiest of the stands Pioneer has made. It is quite heavy - none of that lightweight stuff - about 13 pounds.
post #2808 of 4963
6/3/09 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I see. And everything in the blurb I read about it is true. The "downside" is that there's less than 3 inches from the top of the base to the bottom of the bezel. My center channel comes to just below the top of the bezel and covers the Pioneer logo. I can pretend it says Elite.


I've thought of this my self...

...just the other day I was in my local electronics store and tried to see how easy it would be to peel off the ELITE logo and cover my PIONEER logo.

then I'd be
post #2809 of 4963
6/3/09 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J0HNNY H0PK1NS View Post

I've thought of this my self...

...just the other day I was in my local electronics store and tried to see how easy it would be to peel off the ELITE logo and cover my PIONEER logo.

then I'd be

You're not the only one.

I believe for the 9G Elites, the "Elite" emblem is either part of the bezel or behind the bezel itself. I don't think it's any sort of emblem you can take off (unlike car decals and badges). That being said, you may be able to order a 141 bezel from Pioneer and swap bezels, though I don't know if it's a straight plug and play.

Someone else can correct me if I am wrong.
post #2810 of 4963
6/3/09 at 1:01pm
I spoke with two online dealers, one that is a sponser here, on Monday and both said they were expecting shipments of the 600 the second or third week of this month.
post #2811 of 4963
6/3/09 at 1:26pm
I spoke to a retailer and they would not commit to even a guess about when they were expecting shipments. Last month they expected 4 to 6 weeks.
post #2812 of 4963
6/3/09 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McCune View Post

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks...

I know I read it somewhere... can someone help me out with my PS3 rgb setting? My PS3 is running a little 'dark'

So I did 150hrs D-Nice disc and after setup the pure settings..
I hooked up my PS3 to it. I noticed the blacks are pretty dark. But I left it.. for now.

My Oppo BDP-83 arrived last night and I set that up.
At first I thought the brighness was to light, the sun was still up, I could see the black bars in widescreen mode.

Later last night I decided to play with the settings, but before I did, it was dark out at this time, and WoW. As soon as the movie, Dark Knight, played in D-Nice's pure mode setting they were just right. I couldn't see the gray bars anymore.

I guess I will have to watch movies in a dark room from on...

Oops, back to the PS3, so I played Kill Bill I on the PS3, and Kill Bill II on the Oppo. The PS3 plays the blurays darker, less brightness.
Will setting the rgb setting make the PS3 'lighter'?
I have my players hdmi to an SC-05, and SC-05 hdmi to 500M.

Or should I have different settings/mode for each player? Can you do that?
Like Pure for the Oppo, and User for PS3.

Hmm.. anyone else notice watching The Dark Knight, the screen changes from full screen to widescreen? Not the mode but the movie screen. Like the beginning of the movie it's full, but it would switch back and forth during the movie. I thought I was going crazy. Good thing we have replay.
I don't think I would have noticed it, but I was checking to see if I could see the black bars.
post #2813 of 4963
6/3/09 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcubed91 View Post

Thanks...

I know I read it somewhere... can someone help me out with my PS3 rgb setting? My PS3 is running a little 'dark'

So I did 150hrs D-Nice disc and after setup the pure settings..
I hooked up my PS3 to it. I noticed the blacks are pretty dark. But I left it.. for now.

My Oppo BDP-83 arrived last night and I set that up.
At first I thought the brighness was to light, the sun was still up, I could see the black bars in widescreen mode.

Later last night I decided to play with the settings, but before I did, it was dark out at this time, and WoW. As soon as the movie, Dark Knight, played in D-Nice's pure mode setting they were just right. I couldn't see the gray bars anymore.

I guess I will have to watch movies in a dark room from on...

Oops, back to the PS3, so I played Kill Bill I on the PS3, and Kill Bill II on the Oppo. The PS3 plays the blurays darker, less brightness.
Will setting the rgb setting make the PS3 'lighter'?
I have my players hdmi to an SC-05, and SC-05 hdmi to 500M.

Or should I have different settings/mode for each player? Can you do that?
Like Pure for the Oppo, and User for PS3.

Hmm.. anyone else notice watching The Dark Knight, the screen changes from full screen to widescreen? Not the mode but the movie screen. Like the beginning of the movie it's full, but it would switch back and forth during the movie. I thought I was going crazy. Good thing we have replay.
I don't think I would have noticed it, but I was checking to see if I could see the black bars.

For the ps3 try these settings
Output in RGB and use RGB Range Full
or
Output in YCC and use RGB Range Limited

For Dark Knight:
The scenes that are full screen are the special scenes filmed for IMAX. So this is actually normal
post #2814 of 4963
6/3/09 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

For the ps3 try these settings
Output in RGB and use RGB Range Full
or
Output in YCC and use RGB Range Limited

For Dark Knight:
The scenes that are full screen are the special scenes filmed for IMAX. So this is actually normal

RGB on the PS3 should always be set to Limited. BDs are not encoded per PC standards.
post #2815 of 4963
6/3/09 at 2:21pm
After a 3+ week wait, my retailer called me to let me know my KRP-600M had come in and was sitting at the distributor's

That was the good news. The bad news was that I had bought a bundle deal with the KRP-TS01 (at a good discount for the stand off MSRP, too). I was told that when the reseller called the distributor to get the stand sent, they were told that the company had just filed for bankruptcy last week

He tried to find a stand at other distributors but came up empty-handed. He suggested I call Pioneer directly at they still had some, and he said some other customers had done so and gotten "a good deal" from Pioneer directly.

Has anyone else successfully ordered a stand (and paid less than the $400 MSRP) via calling Pioneer directly?
post #2816 of 4963
6/3/09 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carftopher View Post

You're not the only one.

I believe for the 9G Elites, the "Elite" emblem is either part of the bezel or behind the bezel itself. I don't think it's any sort of emblem you can take off (unlike car decals and badges). That being said, you may be able to order a 141 bezel from Pioneer and swap bezels, though I don't know if it's a straight plug and play.

Someone else can correct me if I am wrong.

its in the bezel.. and a new bezel runs over $300 i think....
post #2817 of 4963
6/3/09 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

I have a question, and it may be silly, but I am not familiar with the quality of video processing in general. I know the HQV realta chip is better than the HQV reon chip which is better than the farouja DCDi chip.

However, I am curious as to where the KRP-500M's processing would stand up to these processing chips. I'm talking about scaling and de-interlacing. If I were to get a receiver with a reon, would I be better off letting the pio do the processing jobs or the reon?

I've got a receiver with the anchor bay ABT1010 in it, but it's not that great. I'm hoping someone will know the answer to this, but if not, no worries.

Thanks.

+1

Been wondering the exact same thing as I shop for a receiver upgrade I dont need.
post #2818 of 4963
6/3/09 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

RGB on the PS3 should always be set to Limited. BDs are not encoded per PC standards.

Completely agree however some users are reporting that limited is not working for them which is strange.
post #2819 of 4963
6/3/09 at 5:16pm
Well I got my 500m at 11am today and wow. It is really something. No dead pixels, screen perfect. I'll give a more detailed analysis of it in a few days, but so far it is just incredible. The blacks, oh my, the blacks.

But damn this thing puts off some heat! Compared to my 60A3000 it is like a small space heater. Just stand near it and you can feel the air is warmer around it. Not good since my AC struggles to keep the heat at bay in that room as it is. I tried power save mode 1 and while is uses a full amp less than standard, I just like the vibrant picture as it guzzles its 400 watts.

I am a proud kuro owner now, and so far I just love looking at my entertainment center, and seeing that beautiful thin panel with "Pioneer" written on it, let alone actually watching stuff on it. I'm pumped!

-Blake
post #2820 of 4963
6/3/09 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Completely agree however some users are reporting that limited is not working for them which is strange.

As far as the PS3 goes, I was just playing around with it as well, and I found that on limited or full the PS3's black levels do not change during a movie. However, as soon as you change the setting to limited, the menu interface of the PS3 becomes a much lighter shade of gray as opposed to the black black screen on rgb full.

This was all done with the rgb setting at auto on the kuro.
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