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18" JBL PA subwoofers for home audio - Page 4

post #91 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

mynym, if you are shooting for some good mid-bass slam, then it would seem that a good place to begin is to determine what spl you require. once you have determined that, then you can select a configuration that meets your requirements. there are many ways to skin the mid-bass cat. just remember to include light drivers with large magnets, which tend to be high efficiency designs and as tom danley noted try to avoid as best as possible sharp knees in the frequency response that cause large group delay as this may reduce the subjective slam of the system.

if you are shooting for relatively low spl (peaks in the vacinity of 115db) you might choose mains with pro audio 12-15 inch drivers covering the range from 50-150hz. this will provide more mid-bass slam than most 'audiophile' type speakers, so it would be a good start.

if you are shooting for higher spl (peaks of 120-125db or so), then dual 15 inch drivers or 18 inch drivers with a medium power pro amp are about what you will need. a couple jbl 2226h (15 inch) or 2242h (18 inch) drivers with a good pro amp will blow you out of your house. a simple combination of a pair of 2226H drivers ($330 ea) in an 8 cu ft enclosure tuned to 40hz and a cheap behringer ep2500 amp (~$300) will give you around 130db +/- in a house. as we have discussed, there are several companies that make drivers more or less comparable to the jbl's. 18sounds, b&c, rcf, bms, and electrovoice are some worth taking a look at.

if for some reason, you need more than that, several of the horn designs could work. it would seem these fall into the "wastefull-overkill" category for a home environment however. they will be 110db+ 1w sensitive in a home setting, which gives you upwards of 140db+ at 1000w. maybe somebody needs that much firepower, but probably not. of course, reduced distortion is always a benefit of overkill systems, but from what i have seen, i'm not sure that would really matter for these purposes (as a single 2242h can blast out over 120db mid-bass with less than 0.4% distortion in room).

i hope this helps.


Very good point.

I may be what many refer to as a "bass-head". I'm still in pursuit of the clean SPL I achieved in my younger years in Car Audio. 130 - 140dbs would would be nice.

I'm really intrigued with folded horns as I am familiar with how they sound. With Bill Fitzmaurice's designs it appears you can achieve some serious SPL in a pretty small package (relatively speaking) which IMHO fits my requirements for home use.

Thoughts?
post #92 of 125
One thing I'd like to mention is power compression which I think explains some of the benefits of horn loaded bass. It's not necessarily about overkill SPL.

I hope Tom doesn't mind me quoting him here and I'm more than happy to remove the post at toms request.

Quote:


In real life, power compression begins on modern drivers, somewhere between 1 / 8 and 1 /10 rated power.

Quote taken from Tomservo (Tom Danley) over at AA.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...compression&r=

Basically this is a form of nonlinear distortion where the driver's voice coil heats up causing the driver to become less efficient. In a nutshell this waters down the dynamics and drive of the music. Or in electrical terms that 1000watt driver stops getting any louder at 500watts and starts to compress the music as early as 100watts.

So if we horn load that same driver then we get an extra 10db of output before power compression kicks in. Of course we could just forget about horn loading and add more direct radiators, but that can get expensive.
post #93 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post

130 - 140dbs would would be nice.
Thoughts?

130-140db for any length of time is going to cause permanent hearing damage. That's the hardest part of listening to my horns... being responsible with the volume control.
post #94 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post

So if we horn load that same driver then we get an extra 10db of output before power compression kicks in. Of course we could just forget about horn loading and add more direct radiators, but that can get expensive.

Or another option would be some kind of cooling. I remember seeing the Pi subs with some kind of aluminum plate with a pipe that attatched to the pole piece of their driver? It increased the power handling, which also means reduced power compression.
post #95 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post

One thing I'd like to mention is power compression which I think explains some of the benefits of horn loaded bass. It's not necessarily about overkill SPL.

I hope Tom doesn't mind me quoting him here and I'm more than happy to remove the post at toms request.



Quote taken from Tomservo (Tom Danley) over at AA.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...compression&r=

Basically this is a form of nonlinear distortion where the driver's voice coil heats up causing the driver to become less efficient. In a nutshell this waters down the dynamics and drive of the music. Or in electrical terms that 1000watt driver stops getting any louder at 500watts and starts to compress the music as early as 100watts.

So if we horn load that same driver then we get an extra 10db of output before power compression kicks in. Of course we could just forget about horn loading and add more direct radiators, but that can get expensive.

this is a good point.

power compression definitely presents a challenge for high spl. jbl recognized this long ago and has engineered their transducers accordingly.

just to scale the problem...with 300 watts pink noise, the 2226h reaches steady state compression of around 2db.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/tn_v1n18.pdf

just keep in mind that transients are not as effected by power compression, since they are very short in duration. much of the mid bass punch that we are talking about here is transient in nature. this is very different than the power compression of high average spl.
post #96 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Or another option would be some kind of cooling. I remember seeing the Pi subs with some kind of aluminum plate with a pipe that attatched to the pole piece of their driver? It increased the power handling, which also means reduced power compression.

good point. another option that we see for enhancing cooling is to place the drivers with their a$$es facing outward. the jbl asb6128v which is designed for club use, prolonged periods of extreme spl, exemplifies this approach.



http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/genera...?PId=172&MId=2
post #97 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

(as a single 2242h can blast out over 120db mid-bass with less than 0.4% distortion in room).

i hope this helps.

Hi bro, I quite doubt that, even with whatever room gain that the mid-bass region has, if any dimension of your room is that super small to begin with. Mid bass = 1 octave 40-80Hz right? (that's supposed to be technically correct). Or perhaps you could point me to whether you got that from (don't really see that on the PDF spec).

Mynym, it would be quite difficult to get what you experienced in car audio as a typical big room in your country has much less room gain. When Ricci put his RE sealed box into his vehicle the gain was absolutely humongous (do a search in the DIY section). But at least you won't get vibrating panels kinda sound (if you managed to hear that from all the din!).

Talking about tapped horns, anyway to do some advertising for DSL, there will be some new competition in the big boys arena, in the name of TH-212, TH-221, TH-812. Real performance data should be ready in a couple of weeks.
The TH-212 with 36x36x15 and goes slightly lower than the TH-115 should probably be suitable for home music use, duals would be nice and balance out the bass....the others are way too loud. Won't be cheap though, as DSL is gaining recognition nowadays.
post #98 of 125
2100, i'd call mid-bass roughly the range from 50-150hz. the 2242h puts out 113db at100hz with distortion at that level is down about 50db for both 2nd and 3rd harmonic. that is in 4pi space. theoretically, you get +3db for every 1/2 space reduction. so if you go from 4pi space to corner loaded in-room, you should pick up around 9db or so. so 113db + 9db = 121db. at 80hz, it would be a couple db less.

http://www2.jblpro.com/pub/components/2242.pdf
post #99 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder-rush View Post

After having experienced Hi-FI audio systems compared to what I used to have when I DJ'd 15 years ago I'm really disappointed. I have 2 MFW's in a 12x16x8 room opening to the kitchen and for music they lack the bass punch I'm used to for HT they shake and rattle things but in music I'm missing something. Its really disapointing spending money on whats supposed to be top notch sound or overpowering and come back underwhelmed. This goes to all HIFI home cinemas I auditioned on specialty stores not only to MFW-15 that I are in perfect working condition. This thing about making subs "dissapear" is taking away from what's supposed to sound. Even the neighbor's kid has more bang with a single 15" on his car with music. And yes I feel it on my house 10ft away..!

Sorry to hear you're disappointed in your MFW's. I work with both home and professional audio equipment. Professional sound equipment for live concerts is designed for volume, impact and durability first, and accuracy last. That is the compromise they make to fill large areas. Accuracy is less important because most venues are not designed for sound.
I also have two MFW's in my theater/music room and their sound quality is much more accurate than the JBL subs I work with. The JBL subs can play louder but they are not effective below 30hz. they also peak around 60hz which is where you feel that slam in concerts. The point is good quality home audio tends to be more accurate than live sound systems and is closer to what you would see in a recording studio. You should be able to EQ your MFW's to get that sound you're looking for.

My theater/music room is 16'x39' with 9'ceilings and my stacked MFW's have no problem playing loud enough. My in room response is flat down to 13hz.
post #100 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytech View Post

Professional sound equipment for live concerts is designed for volume, impact and durability first, and accuracy last. That is the compromise they make to fill large areas. Accuracy is less important because most venues are not designed for sound.
.

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there, Jay. You cant lump it all into one category. The equipment talked about in this thread from Danley, 18sound, and JBL don't fit your description at all.

Its like lumping Sony and Yamaha subs in with MFWs and ULS 15s.

Doesn't work.
post #101 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

theoretically, you get +3db for every 1/2 space reduction. so if you go from 4pi space to corner loaded in-room, you should pick up around 9db or so. so 113db + 9db = 121db. at 80hz, it would be a couple db less. [/url]

I see. Cool. Hmm....you gave me an idea, I'll try to measure what kind of SPL I get in room at any bass freq i'm interested in with 1 watt(good that Danley publishes the impedance curve) and i'll correspond that with the 2pi published sensitivity curve. In theory I should get +3dB as I am parking it right at the wall/floor boundary (firing the thing into the room at the doorway but not at the corner).
post #102 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytech View Post

Professional sound equipment for live concerts is designed for volume, impact and durability first, and accuracy last.

this is inaccurate.

jbl and many others take great pain to minimize distortion in their systems. they provide data sheets for their drivers and systems that show the various distortions (second and third harmonics, power compression, etc.). here are some examples that have been discussed here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2226.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2242.pdf

as you can see, these drivers are down -40 to -50db (1% to 0.3% distortion) at over 110db at 100hz. further, they employ big motors and light moving masses.

we don't seem to be able to find similar data for the driver used in the mfw. can you provide a link?
post #103 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 View Post

I see. Cool. Hmm....you gave me an idea, I'll try to measure what kind of SPL I get in room at any bass freq i'm interested in with 1 watt(good that Danley publishes the impedance curve) and i'll correspond that with the 2pi published sensitivity curve. In theory I should get +3dB as I am parking it right at the wall/floor boundary (firing the thing into the room at the doorway but not at the corner).

sounds good. make sure that you average across a sweep because at any one or two frequencies you might get faked out by modal/boundary peaks and nulls.

here is one example of how the 4645c (18" driver, ported enclosure) measures:



theoretically, the gain is +6db as you go from 4pi to 2pi space and another +6db from 2pi to 1pi, then another +6db from 1pi to 1/2pi, but that only seems to occur by the time that you get down to the lower bass (30hz or so), which is why i suggested +3db gain for the mid-bass for each halving of space. note that they have a 150hz low pass filter engaged which is why the top end rolls off. the driver itself is flat out way past 200hz on the high end.

same kind of thing happens with tweeters on baffles. theoretically, the baffle step transition should be 6db, but in reality many find 3-4db is what is measured.
LL
post #104 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

this is inaccurate.

jbl and many others take great pain to minimize distortion in their systems. they provide data sheets for their drivers and systems that show the various distortions (second and third harmonics, power compression, etc.). here are some examples that have been discussed here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2226.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2242.pdf

as you can see, these drivers are down -40 to -50db (1% to 0.3% distortion) at over 110db at 100hz. further, they employ big motors and light moving masses.

we don't seem to be able to find similar data for the driver used in the mfw. can you provide a link?

I did not mean to imply that JBL and other pro sound equipment has higher distortion or is of lesser quality. What I was trying to say is that the design goals are usually different between live sound and home audio equipment.
I'm familiar with the JBL drivers. I have used several of the SR series of subs. The JB 2226 driver for example has usable bass extension to about 40 hz compared to the MFW at about 17hz. I would never consider using MFW's for live sound because it's not capable of filling a larg room or area. I also would not consider using a Jbl pro sub for home audio because of it's limited extension. As far as data goes for the driver in the MFW you would probably need to ask Mark Seaton as I beleive it was custom design for him by Eminence.
post #105 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there, Jay. You cant lump it all into one category. The equipment talked about in this thread from Danley, 18sound, and JBL don't fit your description at all.

Its like lumping Sony and Yamaha subs in with MFWs and ULS 15s.

Doesn't work.

You are correct. There are always exceptions. I think I chose the wrong word when I said accuracy. Most of the JBL subs have limited extension below 35hz. The MFW and PB-13 easily extend below 20hz. The point I was trying to make is that home audio and PA systems generally have different goals. It's not about which is better. The pro subs like the JBL's are designed to cover larger rooms and give good quality bass and are usually very efficient. Home audio subs are usually designed for smaller rooms and extension is often a higher goal than efficiency.
post #106 of 125
The JBL cinema subs extend down to 22 hz in big cinemas and probably better in smaller rooms. I had two pro subs that were tuned to 25 hz(like the JBL) and in my room I would still get 110 db's at 15 hz. That was uncorrected, probably closer to 118 db's. Nothing wrong with that for any sub. Again I think pro subs kick serious butt(not all of them) for HT, just try it. I played that pulse scene with my pro subs which is a very low 15-20 hz sweep and hit 118-120 db's. Of course anything over 25 hz was at over 130 db's. It was awesome. Most small to medium rooms have room gain so these subs will benefit alot from that.
post #107 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytech View Post

The pro subs like the JBL's are designed to cover larger rooms and give good quality bass and are usually very efficient. Home audio subs are usually designed for smaller rooms and extension is often a higher goal than efficiency.

to help clarify this point....jbl pro cinema systems are used to master most movie soundtracks in the first place and jbl pro cinema systems are designed to playback the entire soundtrack as it was mastered. most of these systems are tuned to around 25hz, which gives sub 20hz extension. jbl uses "home audio" style subwoofers in almost all of its consumer lines, many of which are quite disappointing. however, they are "small & pretty".

jbl steps up to "pro audio" style subwoofers in its top-of-the-line synthesis systems. they are ugly and meant for build in.

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/the_systems.aspx

the reason for this progression has nothing to do with "better extension" on the home subs. typical home subs are all about waf. the pro subs blow them to dust. however, pro subs have no waf.

if your goal is high spl sub-harmonics, frequencies less than about 20hz, then you really need drivers with huge xmax. this is where svs, epik, exodus, et al begin to achieve a _performance_ advantage. almost every pro audio driver will get blown to dust if trying to play 10hz even at moderate spl.

important to note however is that to take advantage of the large excursion capability, the enclosure must be sealed or a huge, low-tuned, ported, monster. if you put a super big xmax driver in a medium sized box and tune it to 20hz, you are wasting its design potential. you don't need super big xmax with a >20hz tuning and the driver will come undone much below 20hz anyway, so xmax down there doesn't help much.

the mfw is a good home sub. it plays deep and it looks pretty. it is of modest girth. it will (perhaps) beat the jbl pro sub for a couple of hz of extension. it is plug-n-play. it is a good value sub.

the jbl pro sub (s1s-ex / 4645c) will blow it away for spl, accuracy, efficiency/mid-bass punch, power handling, and power compression. it looks like a$$ and nobody would want one sitting in their living room. it has no on-board amp or controller, so requires more equipment and set-up expertise. it is an all-out performance sub.

both can be said to have met their design goals well, but suggesting that they are anywhere close to equal performers would be inaccurate.
post #108 of 125
Well put
post #109 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The JBL cinema subs extend down to 22 hz in big cinemas and probably better in smaller rooms. I had two pro subs that were tuned to 25 hz(like the JBL) and in my room I would still get 110 db's at 15 hz. That was uncorrected, probably closer to 118 db's. Nothing wrong with that for any sub. Again I think pro subs kick serious butt(not all of them) for HT, just try it. I played that pulse scene with my pro subs which is a very low 15-20 hz sweep and hit 118-120 db's. Of course anything over 25 hz was at over 130 db's. It was awesome. Most small to medium rooms have room gain so these subs will benefit alot from that.

I thought the idea for a sub was to extend the lower frequencies without exaggerating any and maintaining an even response. By using your figures your sub has less than 1/2 the volume at 15 hz.
Why would any one want to listen to anything over 130db's?
If loudness is all that matters then for sure pro subs are better.
The idea that pro PA subs use better drivers than home subs is a joke.
post #110 of 125
You missed my point. The numbers I posted were uncorrected and with correction and EQ you are flat(+/-3db's) from 15-80hz with pro subs in MY room at a higher level than most commerical subs. Again I will state this, Comparing my SVS dual 16-46cs+ subs vs the pro subs I had(same money overall). The SVS subs are tuned to 16 hz, the pro subs to 25 hz. The difference was not only much more spl but much more midbass, tighter(more accurate), and no compression with the same effects at the low end. Everyone picked the prosubs over the SVS subs for a HT system. Now this is my room and I have great room gain. I now use 8 sealed DIY subs which lay waste to both, but the pro subs come close.
post #111 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytech View Post

You are correct. There are always exceptions. I think I chose the wrong word when I said accuracy. Most of the JBL subs have limited extension below 35hz. The MFW and PB-13 easily extend below 20hz. The point I was trying to make is that home audio and PA systems generally have different goals. It's not about which is better. The pro subs like the JBL's are designed to cover larger rooms and give good quality bass and are usually very efficient. Home audio subs are usually designed for smaller rooms and extension is often a higher goal than efficiency.

I hope everyone doesn't dismiss jaytech's comments because there have been a select few pro subs getting some praise. I've tested and heard many pro audio subwoofers helping with at least 4 large comparison events. There are a few surprises out there, but it's important to remember those are more often exceptions rather than the rule. Many 18" pro subs start rolling off in the 45-55Hz range (not kidding). Many that are tuned lower for 30-35Hz extension have a drooping response that requires significant EQ to flatten (notice that JBL response above has a high pass with a Q=2!). Specification games can get pretty creative when there are many sales on the line.

One of the reasons I collaborated with Jeff Permanian of JTR was to help push a few more products to the pro audio world which had sound quality as a priority in the design. Until recently, most are designed first to be loud, then to not break, then be easy to transport, and again, to not break. Only later do they typically come back and see how good they can make it sound.

Jaytech, you might enjoy a demo of some JTR or Danley products, as well as the YorkVille products using Danley's inventions (Unity series). All fill rather different niche's in the market, so keep in mind appropriate uses if you do get a chance to hear them.

There have been some promising trends with new products being introduced, but don't blindly assume that loud = good sound at low volume.
post #112 of 125
Hi Mark. I always tell people of my experiences in my room and never say it will do this in all rooms. I took a chance and it worked. I know not all subs are the same and some work better than others for certain applications. I have a medium sized room that is sealed with room gain that made sealed a front runner. The ported subs worked great but the sealed sound better to me. I don't even use EQ because how well the sealed work in my room. People tend to forget that JTR was intended for pro audio first(music) and always ask how they are. I know your catalysts and submersives come from the same background but with an emphasis on home applications(I think) which makes them the best of both worlds. I agree that most pro subs don't due justice for theater. I always look for a lower frequency response but that does not guarantee it will do what it says.
post #113 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I hope everyone doesn't dismiss jaytech's comments because there have been a select few pro subs getting some praise.

But...Those "select" subs are really what this thread is about. I don't see why we keep getting sidetracked by junky PA stuff. We know its out there, so what?

As far as having to use EQ, the Submersive isn't using any? No LT? EQ is kind of a fact of life with subs, no?

Personally, I'm not looking to my JBL clone as a stand alone solution. I use it for the upper ranges because it sounds so much better in that range than anything I've heard. That said, if you'd like to gift me a couple Submersives, I'll set clone-boy out in the garage.

BTW, Jaytech, calling peoples opinions a joke isn't going to get you anywhere.

Read Marks post for an example of making a point without being a jerk. Thanks in advance.
post #114 of 125
Quote:


Why would any one want to listen to anything over 130db's?

Um.....what is 130dBs at 10 meters....some of us have bigger rooms!!

Quote:


If loudness is all that matters then for sure pro subs are better.

Louder/clean sound (very low distortion) is what people should be striving for when building the ultimate theater....My main speakers have 12" pro drivers and they beat the crap out of weak comercial stuff!!! Not even a contest. People do not realize that true SPL dynamic ranges do matter....enjoy your comercial stuff, I want something better.

Quote:


The idea that pro PA subs use better drivers than home subs is a joke.

Jaytek, you are obviously a NOOB with little knowledge if after 12 posts you are calling something a joke....go back and learn before you post again!
post #115 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

But...Those "select" subs are really what this thread is about. I don't see why we keep getting sidetracked by junky PA stuff. We know its out there, so what?

As far as having to use EQ, the Submersive isn't using any? No LT? EQ is kind of a fact of life with subs, no?

Personally, I'm not looking to my JBL clone as a stand alone solution. I use it for the upper ranges because it sounds so much better in that range than anything I've heard. That said, if you'd like to gift me a couple Submersives, I'll set clone-boy out in the garage.

BTW, Jaytech, calling peoples opinions a joke isn't going to get you anywhere.

Read Marks post for an example of making a point without being a jerk. Thanks in advance.

Hi Tack,

EQ is a very useful tool with subwoofers and offers many advantages, especially where gross size is even somewhat limited.

I honestly didn't have time to read all of the thread, which is why I might have contradicted some earlier topics. The use of EQ isn't a problem with a passive sub, but unless you are testing the fully powered system, it also leaves a lot of room for incorrect assumptions, especially in terms of output and power required to achieve it. A 2nd order HP with Q=2 is +6dB of gain near the corner frequency, or 4x the power.

There are some great pro drivers out there in the 12-18" size that will do a wonderful job above 30-50Hz and do it better than the vast majority of home subwoofers. The SubMersive needs its full 1kW of power to deliver what would be considered as a moderate to light-duty, "pro-audio" subwoofer above 35-40Hz (mid 120dB range @1m gp). Of course you need a much larger box or limited low frequency extension to get significantly louder. If you are building a subwoofer to not go lower than 35-50Hz which will be augmented, I would say in most cases that a few quality 15" drivers in the right location will trump the larger drivers in more manageable box sizes.

The part so often missed is that placement of the subwoofer and listener in a home environment makes a HUGE impact on the frequency range we are discussing. Case in point would be those not getting much "punch" from MFW-15s.
post #116 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I hope everyone doesn't dismiss jaytech's comments because there have been a select few pro subs getting some praise. I've tested and heard many pro audio subwoofers helping with at least 4 large comparison events. There are a few surprises out there, but it's important to remember those are more often exceptions rather than the rule. Many 18" pro subs start rolling off in the 45-55Hz range (not kidding). Many that are tuned lower for 30-35Hz extension have a drooping response that requires significant EQ to flatten (notice that JBL response above has a high pass with a Q=2!). Specification games can get pretty creative when there are many sales on the line.

One of the reasons I collaborated with Jeff Permanian of JTR was to help push a few more products to the pro audio world which had sound quality as a priority in the design. Until recently, most are designed first to be loud, then to not break, then be easy to transport, and again, to not break. Only later do they typically come back and see how good they can make it sound.

Jaytech, you might enjoy a demo of some JTR or Danley products, as well as the YorkVille products using Danley's inventions (Unity series). All fill rather different niche's in the market, so keep in mind appropriate uses if you do get a chance to hear them.

There have been some promising trends with new products being introduced, but don't blindly assume that loud = good sound at low volume.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the input. I will check out the latest products you suggest as I will be setting up a system for an auditorium that seats about 250.

My posts were to counter some suggestions that pro audio is more accurate and of higher quality than home audio. I know that you of all people realize that every design needs a goal and compromises to get there. I'm sure one could find a PA sub that works good in a home system but the design was intended for larger rooms and I believe limited extension was the compromise they used to get there. JBL uses -10db in their specs as usable low end response and it takes a lot of power to EQ that flat. I think there are a lot of people that prefer the 30-60hz bass boost and define that as good.

I really appreciate your design of the MFW. I have duals stacked in the front corner in my 6500 cu ft room and with the BFD EQ I get a fairly smooth response down to 12hz (-3db)
post #117 of 125
They sound great. I run the MRX500 rig for all my gigs and also use them in my house when not in use at gigs on weekends.
I absolutely love the MRX500s and they are my new reference for speakers, home audio or not.
http://www.youtube.com/user/spezzy
The accuracy and lack of audible distortion is fantastic. I get nothing but compliments on this rig for it's sound quality when out at gigs or when friends visit.

Although if you are going to buy some for home use I'd get a pair of the SRX728s as they dig a little bit deeper than the MRX 528s. It honestly isn't noticeable, I've AB'd both systems extensively, more time than I would like to divulge to the public. That is mainly why I chose the MRX over SRX, even though they were within budget.
post #118 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Um.....what is 130dBs at 10 meters....some of us have bigger rooms!!



Louder/clean sound (very low distortion) is what people should be striving for when building the ultimate theater....My main speakers have 12" pro drivers and they beat the crap out of weak comercial stuff!!! Not even a contest. People do not realize that true SPL dynamic ranges do matter....enjoy your comercial stuff, I want something better.



Jaytek, you are obviously a NOOB with little knowledge if after 12 posts you are calling something a joke....go back and learn before you post again!

I guess I haven't spent enough time learning about pro audio on this forum.
How is my statement any worse than you calling commercial stuff weak?
I've spent the last 20 years working with PA equipment and know it quite well. I never suggested either type of audio equipment as being inferior. just having different design goals. My statement was not meant to offend anyone, just to point out that something labeled pro, does not always mean it's superior. As far as people designing their own ultimate theater, I will offer my opinion if asked but leave the rest up to them.
post #119 of 125
Well actually the original poster did ask about home audio / music. That's where the punch thingy came about.

More about JBL for hifi.
http://www.audioheritage.org/

The most hardcore example I can think of is the Wilson XS subwoofer...costs usd18k, passive. Uses the seismic 8196 driver (its supposed to be pro arena, right?). Or the PMC's studio lines like XB3.

But after experiencing 7 SVSs in a small 1000cu ft room, I think one day i'd go into HT myself..... hope Mark's Terraform XL is within reach (and probably put it on wheels so that I can roll it and the TH-112 out of the storeroom when I have the need!). Actually on the really dynamic music stuff I am already pushing the boundaries of the TH-112.

Really would love to one day hear stuff like the Meyer X-10D. (only have the HD-1 here)
post #120 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 View Post

Actually on the really dynamic music stuff I am already pushing the boundaries of the TH-112.

Then you need the TH50 or the soon to be released TH-221.
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