New Canons on the block !!

Hi,

I saw these on Canon's site. They are all flash based, and I am not very happy with the flagship HF-S10 only having a 10x optical zoom. However, the sensor size is 1/2.6.

We'll see -

Pam

Damn! These look very interesting.

The HF S10, and HF S100 look like they they'll be packing some heat when they are released.

Ken, ready to take the plunge for us?

Pam,

Welcome to AVS!

Yes, it is interesting that the HF S10 is listed with a 10x optical zoom.

Many of us who have been staying on the cutting edge of HD consumer cams, will be looking to see how it performs picture quality wise.

Money, money, money...........

The HF200 is obviously the succesor to the immensely popular HF100. I was going to get the HF100, then the HG20, but decided to wait, I"'m glad I did. At first the HF200 sounds like the camera to get, but the HF S100 just sounds awesome. Will probably be my next camera.

great, another '100' camcorder. Now everyone has identical sounding products

The waiting game never pays off. The HF200 is going to be at least $500 MORE than what the HG20 is going for, no matter how good it is, its not going to be $500 BETTER.

Yes, it is, but I wasn't even considering that camera anymore than I considered the new SD camera's on Canon's site.

Also, the "flagship" model the HF-S10 has a 58mm lens which is sweet, but why only a 10x zoom?

Thanks BLASST

Chances are that 1 or 2 months after it's released it's going to be simmilar in price to those mentioned cameras, especially on Amazon.

Sorry but i have to disagree. It took several MONTHS, not 2 months for the HG20, HG21 and the HF11 to get to where they are now. All 3 listed above had MSRP of around $899-$1199 and sold for near MSRP for a while.
Even now the HF11 is still at around $800ish at Amazon (depending on week) and at or above $850 at major stores.
The "New" Cameras will not even be available for sale until a couple of months AFTER CES which is in Feb, and will be sold for atleast 2-3 months at MSRP or JUST below MSRP.
You are now looking at 4-5 months from now. People will then pay $900-$1100 for them 4-5 months from now only for them to be sold at $550-$600 in late 2009 the whole cycle starts all over again.
MY point is that the HG20 is now and has been for 4-6 weeks sold for $550 SHIPPED. Thats $450-$550 cheaper than any of the "new" cameras.
No matter how you look at it, the new cameras will not have features or picture quality that is $450-$550 MORE than the Hg20.

You really think they're going to kill a money-maker? The HV series cam has top points in camcorderinfo.com. It's used as a B roll cam in pro shoots and has a top quality picture.... and it's cheap.

I would expect an HV50 before they're ready to kill that series.

You have to remember that this is the AVS forum where people come to discuss the latest in technology.... tape cams are almost a non issue here. But if you go to any of the real editing sites (vegas, FCP, Avid...etc) avchd cams are by far the minority. It's tape... HDV... xdcam... betacam... etc...

The day is coming for tape that's for sure... but it won't be anywhere near today or tomorrow.

Blasst, I don't think on this one. It doesn't look like any of these new cams have a viewfinder! What are they thinking???? At least throw it on the high end unit. Additionally, I wouldn't be happy with half of the zoom range I've got now.

thanks for the link slimoli!

it's clear that avchd camcorders are the future for canon... multiple models, with some significant upgrades from todays camcorders:
"The HF200 is identical in most regards, but records only to memory card. Both camcorders include a 3.89-megapixel, 1/4-inch CMOS, and have a 15x optical zoom."
"Canon's flagship models for 2009 are the HF S10, with 32GB of internal flash, and the HF S10. ...The lens is large – 58mm, which is the same size as the lens on the professional GL2 camcorder. This larger size allows for 900 horizontal TV lines, according to Canon."

even more resolution than the hf11/hg20/hg21?? that's big news!!

1)cost... 900 lines of resolution @58mm is pricey glass.
2)elbow room for future upgrading

canon is notorious for making small changes, then using it as an excuse for calling the camera a new model.

I guess the HF-S11 will be due out mid year than

I think people who think tape is dead are kidding themselves. Manufacturers keep renewing their lines (even on the semi-pro and pro lines) with new tape-based camcorders.

Some of the most expensive professional, network cameras are tape-based. Tape is not going anywhere for a while yet.

Well, let's see how they actually test out. Canon claimed 800 lines for the A1 and it measured out at only 650 or thereabouts. So be suspicious of manufacturer's claims.

With that said however, I'd expect a measured resolution that will be higher than the current models, just not as high as Canon claims. The irony is that it might have a higher measured resolution than their prosumer cams costing several times the amount! That wouldn't be the first time either.

But as most of us know, resolution isn't the entire picture story, it's just one of many elements. I seriously doubt that any of these new cams will look as good as a Sony FX1000/Z5/Canon A1/Canon A1S with a lower measured resolution!

i agree, it won't measure out to anywhere near 900 lines, no camera manufacturer ever meets the resolution hype that they generate.

see the camcorderinfo tests on the hdv xl h1... it's a $6500 camcorder with far lower resolution than the hf11/hg20/hg21 currently has... hdv is alive only to support the existing infrastructure, it's a dead format that doesn't have enough picture quality to support the native 1440x1080 sensors of the xl h1.

look at the feature list of these new camcorders, ken, you know that you want one :-)

"The HF S10 and HF S100 are both equipped with a 8.59-megapixel, 1/2.6-inch CMOS, larger than anything on previous Canon camcorders ...There are several manual controls and options new to Canon, as well. The Focus Assist feature has been expanded to include peaking, which creates a colored fuzz on the areas of focus in either red, yellow, or blue. Zebra patterns are available at either 70 or 100 IRE. Canon is the first to steal thunder from Panasonic by including manual gain control, with options for 0dB, 6dB, 12dB, and 18dB. SPMTE color bars and a 1kHz reference tone are available for calibration. ...The Pre-Record function uses cache memory to record 3 seconds of video prior to your hitting the record button."

compared to that, nobody who is serious about picture quality will buy the hv40.

Some of the features, bigger lens & sensor are certainly nice, but without a viewfinder it's really a no-go for me. I'd also really miss the 20X zoom. 10X is so passe...I haven't seen that low a power in some time.

But I'll tell you, if you saw the picture quality of the prosumer FX1000/Z5/Canon A1S, you'd see that HDV can still surpass AVCHD in picture quality. Again this shows that resolution is only one of many ingredients to a great picture.

Slimoli, I still have the TRV900! I can tell you by today's standard it sure isn't light...it probably weighs twice what most consumer cams weigh today. As you know it also had no XLR audio and limited manual control.

So, does this work like the stock market; will the announcements influence the start of a lowering trend on the current crop of Canon camcorders or does the new cameras have to be physically for sale to influence prices in a major way?

the trv900 was a classic! the HF S10 and HF S100 will be the closest thing to it that you'll see for now, at least until sony comes out with their 24Mbps avchd cameras.

the 10x zoom is probably going to be a deal killer for me also, i really need big zoom for the race cars.

But the HF200 repeats the typical trend of successor models have smaller sensor and larger zoom range. So even though it has 24Mbps, its low light performance may be worse than HF100.

The zoom range is related to the sensor size. The larger the sensor, the larger the lens would be required to achieve the same zoom range. That's why with the HF200's smaller sensor (compared with HF100), they can fit a 15x zoom.

Go glass! I like the new lens on the HF-S. I wonder if a nice telephoto lens could compensate for the megar 10x zoom.