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2009 Panasonic 12G Plasma Line-Up - Page 8

post #211 of 3994
The ultimate black that Panny is is talking this year was mentioned in a right up at C-net by Katselmier. He refers to it as a trick that turns the power off on a completly black screen shot so the pannel is giving off no lite at all.He says it it likekly to get numbers up to compete with LCD.
If you go to C-net and go in to the ces section scroll through to find the right up on the new pannels and in there is a link to his ( Kaselmier's) preview.
My first post!

Mark
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-101...?tag=txt;title
Here is the link
post #212 of 3994
CNET mentions all the new panels use half the power - is that confirmed or are they just repeating the original PR?
post #213 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I did not get the model number of the NeoPDP, but it will only be in the 54" size.

Is it the all new Z1, or the TC-P54Z1 - Panasonic introduces wireless, 1-inch thick Plasma
post #214 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuDiOBoY529 View Post

D-Nice or anybody that is knowledgeable in this section, are all the NEO PDPs using 5 lumens tech?

Yes
post #215 of 3994
Wow! These look nice!
post #216 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasjenl View Post

Well, being a 'Euro' myself I can assure you that this is not the case: a lot of people I've spoken disliked the ugly silver bezel on the PZ800 series.

You are a person of exceptional taste
Quote:


By the way: doesn't any of the new models feature something like last year's IFC function anymore? Or has this been 'renamed' to "Full-Time 1080 TV lines of motion resolution"?

Pioneer had ISF modes. Panasonic has THX certified models. The 2009's includes 2 THX models.

- Rich
post #217 of 3994
I don't know what going from a 480 to 600 subfield drive means.

Are they refreshing at the perfect multiple of 72 or are they refreshing at 60?

Does 480 in the subfield refer to 48 refresh and 600 to 60 refresh?

If that is the case then flicker will be less evident because 48 is too slow but if it is indeed at 60 then the judder problems will remain.

Maybe the $64,000 question is has Panasonic eliminated flicker without doing anything about judder?

All you techonological geniuses who know so much about everything else around here regarding plasma technology are welcomed to chime in--

Don't be afraid that if you reveal that Panasonic hasn't done anything about judder but about flicker only--

that the PR plants are out there and will get you and ban you from CES in the future!
post #218 of 3994
Wow, there seems to be a lot of negative speculation towards these new models and it surprises me. Initially we've learned so far (acording to the specs) that they are taking (for example) the 08 PZ800, which many professional reviews claim was ONLY bested by the Pioneer units (and justly so) but still, that leaves the Panasonic as one of the top tier models a person could buy.

Now ... in 09, they are taking that same great TV and (again, according to the 'specs' as of now and pending actual visual reviews) are more than likely offering improved contrast ratios that may give us brighter whites and darker blacks, along with improved smoother video processing and at least the same accurate color rendering that the THX settings gave us last year. (PLUS adding this to an additional model) along with a couple new sizes and possible flicker free 24p playback ....

I'd say there is an awfull lot to get excited about in these new models and I for one am pretty pumped, I was very close to grabbing a 50PZ800 now, but am more than willing to wait a few more months for the additional improvements coming

For those that seem disappointed that the 09 Pannys may not be quite as good as the Kuro's, I think you have to keep it in perspective that you are going to be buying a panel that will (more than likely) still cost considerably less than the Pios on average and give fantastic performance per dollar! Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I view it as 'possitive' speculation and can't wait until the professional reviewers have a go with these new models
post #219 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovetails View Post

Wow, there seems to be a lot of negative speculation towards these new models and it surprises me. Initially we've learned so far (acording to the specs) that they are taking (for example) the 08 PZ800, which many professional reviews claim was ONLY bested by the Pioneer units (and justly so) but still, that leaves the Panasonic as one of the top tier models a person could buy.

Now ... in 09, they are taking that same great TV and (again, according to the 'specs' as of now and pending actual visual reviews) are more than likely offering improved contrast ratios that may give us brighter whites and darker blacks, along with improved smoother video processing and at least the same accurate color rendering that the THX settings gave us last year. (PLUS adding this to an additional model) along with a couple new sizes and possible flicker free 24p playback ....

I'd say there is an awfull lot to get excited about in these new models and I for one am pretty pumped, I was very close to grabbing a 50PZ800 now, but am more than willing to wait a few more months for the additional improvements coming

For those that seem disappointed that the 09 Pannys may not be quite as good as the Kuro's, I think you have to keep it in perspective that you are going to be buying a panel that will (more than likely) still cost considerably less than the Pios on average and give fantastic performance per dollar! Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I view it as 'possitive' speculation and can't wait until the professional reviewers have a go with these new models

Most people are probably operating under the assumption that the 9G Kuro's are better AND cost less than many of these Neo models will MSRP for--at least initially. These will be great when deep discounts begin several months in, but that's a long ways off.
post #220 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovetails View Post

Wow, there seems to be a lot of negative speculation towards these new models and it surprises me. Initially we've learned so far (acording to the specs) that they are taking (for example) the 08 PZ800, which many professional reviews claim was ONLY bested by the Pioneer units (and justly so) but still, that leaves the Panasonic as one of the top tier models a person could buy.

Now ... in 09, they are taking that same great TV and (again, according to the 'specs' as of now and pending actual visual reviews) are more than likely offering improved contrast ratios that may give us brighter whites and darker blacks, along with improved smoother video processing and at least the same accurate color rendering that the THX settings gave us last year. (PLUS adding this to an additional model) along with a couple new sizes and possible flicker free 24p playback ....

I'd say there is an awfull lot to get excited about in these new models and I for one am pretty pumped, I was very close to grabbing a 50PZ800 now, but am more than willing to wait a few more months for the additional improvements coming

For those that seem disappointed that the 09 Pannys may not be quite as good as the Kuro's, I think you have to keep it in perspective that you are going to be buying a panel that will (more than likely) still cost considerably less than the Pios on average and give fantastic performance per dollar! Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I view it as 'possitive' speculation and can't wait until the professional reviewers have a go with these new models

Not to mention that the new models use a lot less power than last year's models. Over the life of the set that has to be worth a lot of money.
post #221 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

I don't know what going from a 480 to 600 subfield drive means.

This is a quote from CNET:

"Panasonic's V10 models are the company's only televisions for 2009--aside from the ultra-thin Z1 flagship--to feature so-called 24p Cinematic Playback. We spoke to a representative at the company's booth and he claimed that the improvement from last year's 480Hz subfield drive to this year's 600Hz version eliminates the flicker in 24p mode that we complained about last year in our reviews of the PZ800U and PZ850U models. We're looking forward to seeing for ourselves."

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-101...ag=mncol;title
post #222 of 3994


TC-P54Z1
post #223 of 3994
hello all, how many watts they consume these new models?
5 lumens, 50% less?
post #224 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by avia600 View Post

hello all, how many watts they consume these new models?
5 lumens, 50% less?

They haven't said yet.
post #225 of 3994
Cnet report on entry level X1, 720P, which is a Non NEO model.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-101...ag=mncol;title


Excerpted explanation of what "Infinite Black Panel" actually means.

"The Panasonic rep we talked to explained that Infinite Black caused the TVs, when displaying a completely black screen, to basically fade down to nothing, as if the TV was turned off. The new entry-level panels also improve upon the contrast-ratio spec for the entry-level PX80U series from last year, doubling it from 15,000:1 to 30,000:1. The result should be excellent black-level performance for a relatively low-buck display."
post #226 of 3994
My Guess For STREET PRICES On The 50" Models:

X Series $ 999.99
S Series $1,299.99
G Series $1,599.99
V Series $1,899.99

54" Z Series $2,999.99
post #227 of 3994
CNet report on which NEO models properly handle 1080P/24 playback, and which ones are supposed to rely on the 600Hz subfield drive to eliminate flicker in 24P mode.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-101...ag=mncol;title


Excerpt:

"Panasonic's V10 models are the company's only televisions for 2009--aside from the ultra-thin Z1 flagship--to feature so-called 24p Cinematic Playback. We spoke to a representative at the company's booth and he claimed that the improvement from last year's 480Hz subfield drive to this year's 600Hz version eliminates the flicker in 24p mode that we complained about last year in our reviews of the PZ800U and PZ850U models. We're looking forward to seeing for ourselves."
post #228 of 3994
NEO Models: Half The Energy Usage, at the same Brightness level of 2008 models. That is what Panasonic claims. You can increase the brightness level, but that will cause the Energy levels to climb back toward the 2008 models usage rates.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-101...ag=mncol;title

Excerpt:

"Between the energy-efficiency and what we expect to be improved black level performance over the 2008 models, the S1 series seems to strike the perfect bang-for-the-buck balance"
post #229 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Most people are probably operating under the assumption that the 9G Kuro's are better AND cost less than many of these Neo models will MSRP for--at least initially. These will be great when deep discounts begin several months in, but that's a long ways off.



Agreed, but lets hope that D-Nice's 'hint' that one might be pleasantly surprised with the pricing on these new units ... he's usually dead on with his info and advice
post #230 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

NEO Models: Half The Energy Usage, at the same Brightness level of 2008 models. That is what Panasonic claims. You can increase the brightness level, but that will cause the Energy levels to climb back toward the 2008 models usage rates.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-101...ag=mncol;title

Excerpt:

"Between the energy-efficiency and what we expect to be improved black level performance over the 2008 models, the S1 series seems to strike the perfect bang-for-the-buck balance"

Now, if only the paragraph is accurate in the Panny press release that said the S1 will have THX, not just bad copy/paste from the other descriptions, the game will be ON!
post #231 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

"The Panasonic rep we talked to explained that Infinite Black caused the TVs, when displaying a completely black screen, to basically fade down to nothing, as if the TV was turned off..."

I have to confess that made me laugh out loud. Is this really what Infinite Black is?

Don't get me wrong these new plasmas sound excellent, but what, exactly is the point here? This certainly won't help PQ, because no one watches a black screen. It could, I suppose, help power consumption for those times when the screen goes black for an extended period. But really, how often is that.

Am I missing something? I didn't expect Infinite Black to be some magic PQ enhancer, but I guess I thought it would actually have something, however small, to do with the PQ.
post #232 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

My Guess For STREET PRICES On The 50" Models:

X Series $ 999.99
S Series $1,299.99
G Series $1,599.99
V Series $1,899.99

54" Z Series $2,999.99

My guess is that you won't see those prices before October.

That is, unless by "street prices," you're talking about the stuff that falls off one of Tony's trucks.
post #233 of 3994
Maybe this is a dumb question but will the new TVs have Analog & Digital Tuners in them or just Digital Tuners?

Also "Infinite Black" sounds more like a Power Saver feature than a Picture Quality feature & any help in the picture department that stems from it is just a bonus.
post #234 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

My Guess For STREET PRICES On The 50" Models:

Guessing street prices is a bit dicey since they vary so much between vendor and because they fluctuate so much. Your numbers will happen, but maybe not right away. That said, street prices will decrease sharply in the first three months, so it might not take long.

My guess is $899.95 MSRP for the 42" X1 model. That is $100 less than last years 42" PX80. About 11%. I suspect that a similar price decrease will be present for all other models with respect to their outgoing counterpart.

Initial street price will vary from 0% to 20% below those MSRP, going down to 30% or even 40% below MSRP as the product ages. There will probbly be at least one MSRP drop along the way too, lowering prices even more.
post #235 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

Maybe this is a dumb question but will the new TVs have Analog & Digital Tuners in them or just Digital Tuners?

DNice suggested that they will only have digital tuners, for OTA anyway.

They will surely still be able to receive an analog cable signal ("Cable Ready"), since those won't be going away very soon.
post #236 of 3994
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post

I have to confess that made me laugh out loud. Is this really what Infinite Black is?

Don't get me wrong these new plasmas sound excellent, but what, exactly is the point here? This certainly won't help PQ, because no one watches a black screen. It could, I suppose, help power consumption for those times when the screen goes black for an extended period. But really, how often is that.

Am I missing something? I didn't expect Infinite Black to be some magic PQ enhancer, but I guess I thought it would actually have something, however small, to do with the PQ.

Perhaps some Pioneer tech creeping in?
An excerpt from a HTM review of the PRO-111FD:

Quote:


I did note a black-level oddity that I first saw on the PDP-6020. When I switched quickly from a bright white test pattern to video black, the black level would initially be elevated. After a few seconds, it would drop to the more typical, low level shown above. After another 15 to 30 seconds, it would drop further, to total blackas if the set had shut off (it hadn't). But I only experienced this on test patterns.
post #237 of 3994
I'm anxious to see the pricing on the 54" models. Present TV is a Panny 47" RP-CRT and hope to upgrade this year. The 50" isn't much of a jump, but the price delta to go to the 58" is steep. I really like that they are coming out with this new size. And if pricing is a little closer to the 50" than the 58", then all the better.
post #238 of 3994
PrimeTime, I guessing you'll see those prices by June & then even lower prices in the fall & by Christmas you'll be able to find some stores who will be blowing out the 42" X1 for under $500 just like this year the 42" PX80 could be found for under $600 & for the 50" X1 some stores will be blowing it out for under $700 & this year some stores had the 50" PX80 for under $800.
post #239 of 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by creemail View Post

Nothing that I see is posted at this time, but it is not a big deal as the minimum lamp hours on today's flat panels are over 60,000 hours, which is nearly 10 years before any diminish in brightness.


Actual lifespan would depend upon how much the set is used. I have mine on for an average of 6 hours per day, about 330 days a year. So 2000 hours per year. A 60,000 hour rating is 30 years for me. I think I can live with that. I just might upgrade again sometime before it wears out.
post #240 of 3994
Is there already information on whether or not any of the new FullHD Plasma TVs comes without fans?
That is the only thing that kept me from getting a 1080 Panasonic.
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