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Home Theatre 3D Stereoscopic Projection + DIY Silver Screen for 3D - Page 2

post #31 of 72
I don't think you can... Pretty darn sure you have to have dual outputs from a single PC.
post #32 of 72
ok, i make this:
My video card ATI 9600 PRO 128 from Gigabyte has: VGA -out, DVI -out and s-video output. For projector 1 use VGA output and for projector 2 i used DVI- VGA adapter. Results same image on projector 1 and projector 2. Next step, need to align these two images into single one, correct?
But how can paint myself siver screen? I am from Romania and i can"t find brands from U.S. . I hear about BEHR silver screen its good, but in my country doesn"t .
What colour i need to find? like silver or aluminum? grey or blue gray?
Surface need smooth or shining or 50-50%
I find a store in my city who can make what colour i want, but i dont know what colour need to choose . He have colour palette from www.nationalpaints.com
Thanks too much!
my best regards.
P.S. I want use 2 pairs of glasses "REALD 3d" with circular polarization.
post #33 of 72
Hi All, Here are some answers

1. You need 2 separate outputs from your computer.

2. You need metallic type paint, any colour will do, but neutral grey/silver is obviously the best one as it doesn't shift colour as much. Aluminium, grey metallic, are all fine.

3. BEHR WILL NOT WORK, Behr "silverscreen" is just plain old paint with not metallic effect, so it wont preserve polarisation

4. Before you paint the metallic paint on your surface, you HAVE TO PAINT IT BLACK FIRST. Otherwise the light that gets past your metallic paint layer will hit the white substrate, and get reflected back out without polarisation, resulting in ghosting.

5. LCD projectors will NOT WORK WELL WITH EXTERNAL POLARISERS. LCD projectors emit polarised light to begin with, so you cannot change its polarisation without significant losses.

Thanks Devilry for the great information. You're the only person i've read so far who has a complete polarised 3D pj system. I've only made an LCD monitor based system using a 50% reflective mirror. Works well. A bit small =P
post #34 of 72
thanks for your reply
SOLVED!
i have 1 projector Sharp PG-B10S, is LCD and another DIY projector build by myself from LCD BENQ 15" monitor+Overhead Projector.
i make it alignament (hard but finally works)
I used a pair of lens from RealD 3d glasses(circular polarization). I put in front of each projector lens.( need to rotate filter for maximum polarization)
I make this connection from PC to projectors:
From VGA output to projector 1
From DVI output-with DVI-VGA adapter to projector 2.
I tested more movies (2d and 3d) and even 2d movies have (depth).
Movies in field sequential (for shutter glasses) have depth but can see horizontal lines
I tested Avatar dvd-2d and looks deph, but not 3d.
Players used: BSPlayer, Windows Media Player Classic, VLC Player, Stereo movie player. -all the same.
Surface projection: I tested : 1- sheet of coated board, like aluminum matt, like inside of PC case cap.
2- Cardboard grey metallic
Results: almost the same.
conclusion: nedd to find a way like a "what type of movie, how set the player"
Now i need to make a big siver screen 2.5/3 meters.
good luck all!
post #35 of 72
Hey guys.
WoW!! I want one! Great thread. Been looking into this myself and I'm very inpressed by your thread. Using the glasses as filters! GENIUS!
I've had various projectors over the years and love the real home cinema feeling of watching a movie on my own big screen. Went to see Avatar and was blown away by the 3d effect and there and then thought I have to have this at home. Will be watching this thread with great interest and once I get mine started will keep you all informed of my progress.
All the best
Lee
post #36 of 72
I finished my silver screen.
I painted the wall in 2 layers with "KOBER- aluminium acrylic paint" 750 ml = 3.5 euro (5$)
Works fine!
Update:
I bought one DLP projector, OPTOMA EP758.
Now i have one DLP and one LCD projectors.
post #37 of 72
Hi i have an outdoor screen which i show movies on. It is 16' by 9'. I have an Optoma HD65. I was wondering if a could buy another Optoma HD65 and create a polarized setup. I am also wondering if there is enough 3D content to make it worth while.I saw this link and wondered if it could be displayed in 3D by a passive polarized setup when it is released.
w w w .engadget.com/2010/01/07/sony-pictures-has-3d-blu-ray-titles-in-store-for-2010. I already have a 9800 Nvidia card with dual dvi output. I was wondering if there is any other hardware or software (besides the glasses) to make this work. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
post #38 of 72
Hello all, I got to say this is an incredibly helpful thread.

Now to business, I am building a twin projector, linear polarised stereoscopic 3D system for a research project and have reached the part of the project where I build the silvered screen. I am happy to default to the metallic paint but I am more curious about the Munroe material the Original Poster mentioned as I would love to make the system portable if this material is flexable, I wonder if anyone has a link to a re-seller or that company in Canada he mentioned?

Also I heard that some linear polarised projectors have one of the three colours polarised in a different direction to the other two leading to loss of brightness if forced through additional filters, What would be the best commercially available projector with adjustable polarising filters?

Best regards

Steve
post #39 of 72
How can play 2 seperate movies (left / right) if I connect 2 projectors to 1 PC via the dual output video card? I mean to get the final 3d movie do I need to play two seperate movies taken by left and right camera then overlaying them on top of each other when they are projected or do I have to combine them first using any editing programs then play one same movie to the 2 projectors?
post #40 of 72
Hello everybody,

I have a dual setup with 2x sony's VPL-HW15 and a silver screen from Demospec-France (licensed by Harkness). Filters come from 3Dlens. Source is a PC with ATI's 3450 - dual DVI-HDMI graphic card.

My issues are:

1 - silver screen ghosting.
(Harkness beeing second after Stewart, I wonder what the others would be...). I paid 450 euros for that 2 meter wide screen with eyelets, not including frame. Fortunately, although ghosting is severe on black bakground, it is almost unnoticeable in normal lightened scenes.

2 - silver screen grain.
At a distance of 3 meters, the grain is actually terrible, generating a screen door effect. Of course, in a commercial movie theater you are seated farther from the screen and you dont notice the grain. As the silver particles are of the same size in both cases, it is a real issue in a home theater.

3 - movie synchronization.
I normally use Reclock on Overlay rendering to prevent judder in 2D. It is perfect.
In 3D mode, I cannot use overlay since there are two outputs and I use either VMR7 or VMR9. I have not been able so far to eliminate judder completely.
But judder is only the top of the iceberg. I could live with it.
In 3D, judder leads you to a most annoying effect: The two card outputs are not in perfect sync and when there is judder, one output shows frame #n while the other shows frame #n+1 !!!! In case of moving objets in the scene, this gives you the feeling that you should not have drunk so much before the show...( I know genlocked cards exist but I cannot afford these top level professional prices...!) Is there any cheap means to avoid this?

Has any of you come througth these problems ?

I must say I am very disapointed so far with the passive dual setup and am considering reselling one of my projectors... The silver screen will go to the basket, too bad...

(maybe I will have a go to Infitec filters first)
post #41 of 72
Having two of the same image will not help you.
You need to have a different image on each screen. One is the left eye image and the other is the right eye image. These images are *not* the same.
The ATI 9600 PRO will probably not be good enough for 3D playback, but I am not sure.
You need something that can playback 3D, like Peter Wimmers Stereoscopic player.
http://www.3dtv.at/Index_en.aspx
Then you need some 3D movies or some 3D games. There are many sample 3D movies to try with the Stereoscopic Player here:
http://www.3dtv.at/Movies/Index_de.aspx


Quote:
Originally Posted by strikea View Post

ok, i make this:
My video card ATI 9600 PRO 128 from Gigabyte has: VGA -out, DVI -out and s-video output. For projector 1 use VGA output and for projector 2 i used DVI- VGA adapter. Results same image on projector 1 and projector 2. Next step, need to align these two images into single one, correct?
But how can paint myself siver screen? I am from Romania and i can"t find brands from U.S. . I hear about BEHR silver screen its good, but in my country doesn"t .
What colour i need to find? like silver or aluminum? grey or blue gray?
Surface need smooth or shining or 50-50%
I find a store in my city who can make what colour i want, but i dont know what colour need to choose . He have colour palette from www.nationalpaints.com
Thanks too much!
my best regards.
P.S. I want use 2 pairs of glasses "REALD 3d" with circular polarization.
post #42 of 72
Are you using a single graphics card or two graphics cards? I run reclock without using overlay and just use a single graphics card (ATi) and it works fine.
post #43 of 72
I am curious, does anyone here understand the polarization coming out of the LG CF181D? It is an LCoS projector.

I have been working on putting together a home theater and eventually a passive 3D setup with two identical projectors. I was intrigued by the projector, the excellent color and ample brightness for a $2400 being the selling points. (former is just nice, latter is good to ensure plenty of light after running the output through a polarizing filter and even with some ambient light)

My understanding is that 3D polarization implemented with liquid crystal projectors is hit or miss since the light is polarized by passing through the crystal itself. However, it can be done even more efficiently, if the defunct site Silverfabric3d.de is to be believed.


1. Does anyone else make quality filters specifically for LCoS? Or should I give up on my dream and go with DLP?

2. What are the issues which could arise from my trying this?

3. Are there any screen recommendations other than the "Monroe" fabric mentioned earlier and the Dalite Silver Matte? Any non-silver recommendations?


I have a machine capable and willing to produce the 3D for games and Stereoscopic Player, both of which I've been using for analglyphic, and am very excited to see what I can do with a decent screen and dual projectors. In return for help, I know quite a bit about computers if questions arise.

Thank you!
post #44 of 72
Call the guys at Rainbow Symphony 3D Glasses Inc. Their main business is 3D Glasses in Reseda California. They have been involved in Polarized material for 30 Years. Just ask for Mark.
post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilry View Post

[b]1 x Silver Screen
(The name of the silver fabric I found is called "Monroe" used over polyurethane.)

hi devilry can you give a link for this monroe silver fabric and the anti glare spray?
post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilry View Post

2 x Polarized Filters
There are two main types of polarized filters. Linear and circular. A quick google search on these two filter types will teach you everything you need to know about how they work with accordance to light. IMAX uses linear polarized filters. RealD uses circular. The difference? With linear polarizers, because of the way light travels through them, you can't tilt your head while you're watching the movie or else the 3D effect will be lost. You'll be sending the wrong information to both eyes so the illusion won't work anymore. Circular filters let you tilt your head around a lot more without having any negative effect on the 3D imagery. This may not be 100% true but, linear polarized filters produce less ghosting (cross-talk) than circular polarized filters. From my testing between the two I opted for linear polarized filters because of the minimal ghosting effect. Not only that, linear polarized filters and glasses are much cheaper than circular. And who really cares about not being able to tilt your head, I don't normally find myself watching a movie or playing a game with my head tilted 30-40 degrees.

There are a number of places you can buy these filters on the net, google is your friend. I have yet to buy a proper pair of linear polarized filters so at the moment I'm using a pair of cut up 3D glasses and put them on top of the lens of my projectors, as you can see in the pics.

Looks pretty professional right? Yeah, I know it sucks. But hey, the point is, using even simple 3d glasses as your filters for 3D still works really really well. Some brands and types are better than others that allow more light to get through the filters as well as less ghosting. But, the biggest factor that will determine how much ghosting you see will be with the silver screen. So, spend your money on a solid screen first than get a decent pair of filters.

This may or may not be obvious but just to be clear here. You can't use linear polarized filters on your projectors and wear a pair of circular polarized 3D glasses or vice versa. Just won't work. Your filters and 3d glasses have to match.

Just to mention, circular polarising is both linear and circular. the light is at first polarized linearly so that they can be easily sent to each eye. circular filter is added so that a twist is put in the light either clockwise or anitclockwise for left and right. not only do circular polarizers help with tilting of heads but if you have quite a large cinema (like you devilry by looking at the images. cripes!) then having circular polarising filters and glasses will dramatically increase your viewing angle so you would be able to have a full room of ppl all at different positions to the screen who still get the 3d effect.

for example if you were to walk around your room at multiple different angles wearing linear glasses the 3d effect will be lost as you go further to the left or right of the screen because at those angles you are effectively tilting your head when looking at the screen. circular polarisation eliminates this. I would say its worth investing in circular if you want to have lots of ppl round to watch
post #47 of 72
I've been following this thread now and then, and must ask... Didn't Optoma release a projector that is 3D ready?? Wouldn't that be easier than dual projectors?? Just curious.
post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by xzener View Post

I've been following this thread now and then, and must ask... Didn't Optoma release a projector that is 3D ready?? Wouldn't that be easier than dual projectors?? Just curious.

Yes they do have a 3D ready projector. Ad yes it would be amazingly more easier then dual projectors... First of all you only need one projector so no aligning the two projectors to get it perfect. Also with 3D ready projectors you do not need to get a good PC with a dual graphics card. You can simply have a 3D Blu-ray player. Samsung and Sony offer them out now, although the 3D content physically is very limited... So in my eyes I would connect a PC with a graphics card that can do 3D too as there are a hell of a lot more 3D content on the internet.
post #49 of 72
hey all. great thread!

i saw a question asked earlier that hasn't been addressed yet, and i'm wondering what the answer to it would be. if i were to purchase a 3d blu-ray player to hook up to my dual projector system, how would i send the left eye signal to the left projector and the right eye signal to the right projector? or is this dual projector set up described in this thread strictly for computer-based 3d?
post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by madman411 View Post

hey all. great thread!

i saw a question asked earlier that hasn't been addressed yet, and i'm wondering what the answer to it would be. if i were to purchase a 3d blu-ray player to hook up to my dual projector system, how would i send the left eye signal to the left projector and the right eye signal to the right projector? or is this dual projector set up described in this thread strictly for computer-based 3d?

I beleive the dual projector is for computer
Blu-ray 3D is actually made for 3D TV I think.. But now they have single 3D projectors which it is possible to use 3D Blu-ray player I think anyway..
post #51 of 72
has anyone successfully made a stereoscopic dual-projector set up with LCD projectors? LCD is all i have at the moment and if i can avoid buying new DLP projectors that would be fantastic. i own a sanyo plv-80 and getting another one at a decent price won't be too much of an issue.

if anyone could shed light on the LCD polarization issue that would be great. i'm guessing that simply cutting up a pair of reald 3d glasses won't work in this case?

edit: if reald 3d glasses won't work, what about the glasses used for 3d film projection? i work as a projectionist and we have a couple theaters that use a special lens on a normal 35mm projector to project 3d movies. for every one traditional frame there are two. are these the same kind of glasses?
post #52 of 72
also, can anyone recommend a good dual-dvi video card that will work with this setup? i'm have no clue when it comes to video cards.
post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by madman411 View Post

also, can anyone recommend a good dual-dvi video card that will work with this setup? i'm have no clue when it comes to video cards.

Mmmm I don't know where to get stuff like that in US only know in UK. Just google Nvidia 3d graphics card.
post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by madman411 View Post

has anyone successfully made a stereoscopic dual-projector set up with LCD projectors? LCD is all i have at the moment and if i can avoid buying new DLP projectors that would be fantastic. i own a sanyo plv-80 and getting another one at a decent price won't be too much of an issue.

if anyone could shed light on the LCD polarization issue that would be great. i'm guessing that simply cutting up a pair of reald 3d glasses won't work in this case?

This guy did it here.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19099091
post #55 of 72
Varinder/devilry,
I realize you are in Canada, but where did you find/where do you recommend looking for the Monroe fabric? An ebay search turned up lots of prints of "The Blonde Bombshell".
post #56 of 72
Thanks a lot, very useful
post #57 of 72
Hey guys I am currently building my own setup but for the benefit of others I am doing quite a bi of experimenting and posting results on a website im making projectin3d.com

Come check out my progress so far and feel free to ask me for help in the comments section on each relevant page on the site. Trying to build a bit of a 3d home theater community.

Thanks again
post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by madman411 View Post

has anyone successfully made a stereoscopic dual-projector set up with LCD projectors? LCD is all i have at the moment and if i can avoid buying new DLP projectors that would be fantastic. i own a sanyo plv-80 and getting another one at a decent price won't be too much of an issue.

if anyone could shed light on the LCD polarization issue that would be great. i'm guessing that simply cutting up a pair of reald 3d glasses won't work in this case?

edit: if reald 3d glasses won't work, what about the glasses used for 3d film projection? i work as a projectionist and we have a couple theaters that use a special lens on a normal 35mm projector to project 3d movies. for every one traditional frame there are two. are these the same kind of glasses?


If you want to use LCD why don't you go with dichroic filters instead of polorizers? That is what Dolby 3D uses and you don't need a silver screen to do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_3D

I have seen in another forum, iz3d I think, a user took apart a pair of dolby 3d glasses and used the lenses to filter each projector, then wearing a pair of glasses he was able to view the projected image. Since wavelength mulitplexing hasn't got anything to do with polorization it wouldn't matter if you used LCD or DLP.

As far as content and software goes that is easy. All you need is stereoscopic player and you can set it to play out as SBS on two outputs.

I have successfully ripped 3d blu-ray and created MKVs that have all the requirements to play perfectly in stereoscopic player.

I found some of the instructions here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155246.

The important part is using x264 to recode the right eye. The 3d blu-rays store the left eye as the 2d movie, then they store the delta of the right eye image. Using an avsynth script with "H264StereoSource.dll" you can recreate the full right eye information as a separate file.

Once you have left.h264 and right.h264 you can use mkvMergeGUI and on the "Format specific options" tab you can set "stereoscopy left" and "stereoscopy right"

you then have an MKV file with the left and right streams that can be read by Stereoscopic player, and this is the cool part. Stereoscopic player can output to any kind of 3d display or configuration. You can even set it up as anaglyph.

I have been looking at Dual projector setups for a while. I think I will go dual DLP, (perhaps even 3d ready DLPs)

Then I can use dichrioc filters, polorizers or active shutter glasses. I'll have every quality 3d possibility and I can experiment with all of them and find the best one.

Right now I am working on ripping and compiling 3d content into MKV files. When I have the money to buy my equipment I will have a ton of content ready to go. I just got another 2TB drive for my media server. I already have over 80 HDDVD and Blu-ray rips on my server, that takes up 2TB. I rip them at full quality and just remux the result, no recoding.

more info about Stereoscopic player here, http://www.3dtv.at/Products/Player/Index_en.aspx

also I don't know if I'll need the IZ3D driver, i don't have a dualhead card right now, just a laptop. I know the IZ3D driver has SBS dual output mode but I think you just need that to make games work in 3d on dual projectors. anyway more info is here http://www.iz3d.com/
and that is also where I saw info on a dual dichroic setup.
post #59 of 72
The biggest problem with the dichroic filters is that they mess with your colours. Supposedly you can adjust the colours in the opposite direction so that the resultant colours are "normal". But most PJs don't quite allow the range of changes required to have the colours look right. Other than that, the Dolby/Infitec method really would be ideal for home PJ use.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/ is really a good place to talk to people who have gotten 2 LCD PJ systems set up. They have sacrificed some 2D PQ for the sake of the polarized screen for 3D, and they don't currently have a way of watching 3D BR, with the exception of the manner ComputerCowboy mentions above, I guess.
post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhonzi View Post

The biggest problem with the dichroic filters is that they mess with your colours. Supposedly you can adjust the colours in the opposite direction so that the resultant colours are "normal".

there is a solution for that
check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post18859059
I have downloaded the code and worked it into avisynth for proof of concept. You would need a very fast computer to do 2x 25Mbs 1080P HD streams in real time. My i7 laptop can't quite do it in realtime (with Geforce 330M)

The alternative is to re-encode each stream, or make an SBS version of the movie, with the color correction. That would take a while and you would have a lossy to lossy conversion (assuming you use x264 with the AVISynth scripts)

I sent a message to Peter Wimmer (the stereoscopic player guy) to ask him if he would include Dolby color correction as part of a dual output mode, I never got a response back about it.

I think the AVISynth Dolby Color correction method is great except that you will need a fast computer and it won't work for games at all. The price of Dolby Filters and the complexity they add to the setup makes me think that a non-depolarizing screen is a better overall option. If you go with the passive polars then you can get many pairs of passive glasses for cheap. American paper optics has plastic and paper ones, even the nicest ones are under $10 a pair. Dolby glasses are around $40 a pair!

One other thing to note, dobly and infitec is the same technology but the filters are different and not compatible with each other
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