Theres an italian in the house! - Page 12

that are very nice numbers for sure

hope the real units will be shiped beginning febr.have arround the same.

to bad the unit lost about 36% of the light between max and min. picture size
but thats a trade of to have such a small optic.

alan are this 1130:1 ansi cr. change if you switch db on and off?
did you measure it at on?

did you measure the on off cr. number at max zoom or min. or in between?

wolfgang

Happy to see that the Uberkontrast is living up fully to the name.

Art

The ansi is impressive although I have a hard time believing that the MTF on this projector is as good as the original SuperKontrast.

This brings an interesting issue for discussion, that although to quote Odyssey ANSI CR is a proxy for MTF so has lack of perceived pixelisation influence on MTF be it through increased fill factor or through other s/n ratio improvements. Read these specs need to be analyzed further before the high fiving on MTF starts.

I'm guessing 1130:1 ansi is with DB on.

That would mean this projector is all about Dynamic Black as native on/off is very low.

I'd love to know how this translates to color fidelity in the midrange - i.e. with the increased contrast, can the projector now resolve color gradients etc better than the C3X1080? With the latter I would often notice lack of color detail and I'm hoping the contrast increase is linear across the spectrum and not just a boost to dark colors.

Those are some phenomenal numbers. No doubt this will set the bar for intra-image contrast. Not just because of the high ANSI but the combo of ANSI and on/off.


I'm not sure that I agree that ANSI equates to MTF, at least not at the high frequency (Nyquist limit) that most people are interested in.

all new good 3 chip dlp pr. that have dc4 chips have arround 700-800 ansi
cr. without dynamic black and i think that is not a very low number.

all lcos are in 200-300 range and this are low numbers.

i will be not surprised if there is no difference at all between db on and off
or at least a very small one.

ANSI CR is not the same as MTF, although it is almost the same at the ANSI CR pattern spatial frequency, which is low. However, MTF at higher frequencies correlates well with ANSI CR in DLP, LCOS, and CRT projector designs. It would be very unusual for a projector to have better MTF than another projector at low frequencies and not maintain that advantage at higher frequencies that are within its limiting resolution. This makes sense because both ANSI CR and MTF are dependent on the same factors like the quality of the optical components.

One caution about the ANSI CR measurement. It is only directly comparable to a measurement of another projector if the same methods and similar equipment are used.

awesome numbers !
it also means for giant screens , it's advisable to install the projector closer to the screen and thus use a curved model to better match the pincushion effect of the anamorphic lens, in order to get max FTL.
same with sony, jvc etc all wide zoom pj that lost a ton of light when installed at min zoom.

Yup, I cannot place my Lumis close to the screen and will be at min Zoom. I am at the low end of T3 (2.7) as my throw distance is 25 feet for a 12 foot wide 2:35 Fire hawk 1.25 gain Micro perf screen (loses 10% light) so at high lamp low iris I am not expecting more than 17 to 18 foot lambs when the bulb loses 30% light.
This is where the Lumis is not positioned by Sim as the HT 5000.

I doubt it matters, or is very little difference. The iris is probably open for the ANSI CR pattern either way. That pattern is a very bright pattern. With that much 100 IRE stuff in the image it wouldn't make sense for the dynamic system to clamp the iris down.

I measured the center 4 boxes from a Samsung A800B at 127:1 the other day (after pretty much eliminating the room), yet with a resolution pattern of small amounts of white on black there was little to no chromatic aberration, even in one of the far corners I was checking out. It was very sharp at the pixel level. I'm guessing this thing would have higher MTF at full resolution than the Sony VW80, even though the VW80 had more ANSI CR than it (I measured the VW80 at about 400:1 ANSI CR and on the ANSI CR pattern the VW80 looked like it had brighter whites and darker blacks than this DLP). Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to compare real material between the two or really check things out on that front (we were testing temporal resolution kinds of things with the dark frame insertion, etc.).

Even misconvergence between the panels with a 3 chipper will hurt MTF for white at full resolution, but should have little to no effect on ANSI CR. And LCOS (at least the DILA version) seems to have its own issues with single pixel things like a 1x1 checkerboard that likely have little to do with the ANSI CR pattern.

I can't recall a case of such low ANSI CR, yet single pixel things that made it look like the lens was very high quality. I think there does tend to be quite a bit of correlation, but there are likely exceptions and this A800B would be an interesting one to investigate further. I'm hoping to get to see another A800B and check its ANSI CR, then maybe do some comparisons with content, or get a chance to view this A800B some more.

I know LCD wasn't mentioned, but the Panasonic AE3000 has been measured with pretty good ANSI CR (I believe 300:1 to 400:1 depending on mode and who is measuring) and I'm not sure that means it has MFT at full resolution that is relatively as good. Although it might be high compared to CRT.

--Darin

One would also assume some loss to the ISCO III when it is in the light path?

Darin said the JVC 4k has cr. in the 400's, is the Barco LX5 out?

Im quite familiar with that unit. Direct testing has shown it to be under 300. Wolfgang is correct.

No significant loss with the ISCOIII.

Mark, You have attributed me with the quote that your comment is addressing. I didn't make that quote. Peter did.

Am I that bad that I be confused with Peter?

Ian, You'd be wrong on both counts. The BD cant clamp down with an ANSI pattern.

It has been explained on a number of occasions now, by those whove actually seen it, ts NOT all about DB.

I don't know how to make that any clearer. I'll try........AGAIN

It is a combination of factors...... Iris design, Iris placement, DB, Lamp modulation, Look-ahead analysis, synchronization and the control software that runs it all.

Whats really new, and proprietary, here is the integration and control.

It will have limitations and compromises like any other PJ.

and even further i not think that i can go back to lcos after this long time
with 3 chip dlp.
a simulations company ask me about 3 moths ago if i like
the sony 4k the r 110 they have as they may like to upgrade
to the jvc 4k pr.

the price they offer was very very good but i not take it.

I have used the Sony 4k units many times. The fact that they give them away to many Cinemas for free is a bit of a clue to how well they are thought of. Im not a fan.

I will be posting some info in a thread that was started on the Meridian 810. That has some serious issues too. Some points are are actually worse than the JVC unit it is based on.It has taken me a couple of weeks to be ready to post, as I needed to check further and also to get some input from a number of people who have seen the unit properly. Its no longer on my shortlist for my main HT.

The simple fact remains, at this point in time, that the best possible projected image comes from a 3 chp DLP machine. Some prefer the advantages that a DCI unit provides, others prefer the advantages of a high end domestically orientated 3 chip unit. Both solutions share a common core of factors that contribute to provide the best combination of parameters for critical, accurate and source agnostic viewing.

cm

i agree with you 3 chip dlp give us the best poosible image today.

there is no perfect pr. out there and may it will be never there but if you count all pro and cons
the 3 chip dlp is over all the best.
"""I have used the Sony 4k units many times. The fact that they give them away to many Cinemas for free is a bit of a clue to how well they are thought of."""

yes this tells a lot!


may you know that i had long time ago also on of the very first 4k pr. at home for
about 10 days see this tread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...456&highlight=

some time it is nice to re read such postings after such a long time

Ash,

At 2.7 you are getting max light output (minimally zoomed) with the T3. You should be bright!!

Am I misinterpreting that the low 2.7 on the T3 lens isn't the minimally zoomed (brightest) end?? (T3 is throw rated 2.5 to 3.7)

I was referring to on/off contrast of 6500:1, not ansi. I don't think the Sim2 products suffer from low ANSI at all - that is their strength. The native on/off is not high enough to properly resolve most images. Of course I'm hoping that it's a moot point with Dynamic Black.

Jeff,
I interpret from Alans post that 2.7 is minimally is Zoomed point.
Hope you are right that 2.7 is the brightest side.
Ssh

Does anyone know the true aperture-values of the T1, T2 and T3 optic ? That would help to have an idea what lumens to expected for the different optics and settings.

Yes but not much. The consensus is that it is just a few percent.

Art

Here are some interesting shots. They are still a long way short of the original images on screen.

The original material was supplied exclusively for testing the Lumis by AVS member "Sierraalphahotel" . The source material was perfectly pixel mapped to native resolution. The detail, color shading and localized contrast are truly outstanding.

A huge thanks must go to "Sierraalphahotel" for his outstanding work and willingness to help the forum.

He is now serving 500 years in a British prison for breaching national security on behalf of AVS.

Seriously, I really appreciate it, and Im certain others will too.

Apologies for butchering your fine work, hope its not too bad. Sorry for the delay, but I wanted someone with a better camera to do do at least some justice to your work.

The bottle neck for color is more likely the source now with BD at 709. When we have a plethora of DCI content with that color space we can look again.The uberkontrast Lumis with both ANSI and the highest sequential of any DLP is something very, very special. This isn't even mentioning that panel alignment.

Wow. Not only is the source photography outstanding, but as screengrabs, they are amazing. Hey CM, you sure you didn't upload the original photographs by accident?

Yes, I agree very very impressive.

Art