Projector Recommendations Requested

I would suggest you carefully consider light control before you go with a front projector. It takes very little light to ruin the picture. I would try and take a look at a few systems with no light and a little ambient light before you purchase one.

Very good advice and absolutely true.


You are probably going to get many recommendations because there are many great projectors available in your price range and well below. You'll likely be blown away by either of the current RS series from JVC (RS10 or RS20). Honestly, you'd probably be amazed at the results you'd get from a previous generation (used of course) 1080p like the Sony VW60, RS1 or RS2, Epson 1080UB, ...... (most of which you can find with "low" hours for nearly 1/3 your budget).

When you say your screen will be 108 inches, do you mean wide or diag? The reason I ask is because it could make a difference on what projector you go with. Like it was mentioned before, you can go with the JVC line, the Sony line and the Epson line. All three make great projectors that will definitely blow your socks off (assuming you wearing some)

jvc or sony lcos pj
as for screens--i have an elitescreens cinetension II--as far as i am concerned best for the money--make sure whatever you get is TENSIONED!! youll regtet it if you dont as the screen can have very visible and annoying waves or contours if you dont. VERY happy with mine[

ATTACH]129189[/ATTACH]--mine is 106 diag.

Screens and projectors are only a small part of doing this right. I have seen many front projector setups that are very poor for other reasons. You need to spend more effort on this than just picking a screen and projector.

I own a RS20 and use a Carada screen with great results.

For beginners in the projector world I'd recommend Epson or Panasonic for ease of set up. If you are going to have help from someone handy with a laser level and some basic carpentry skills you can move up into the world of DLP or LCOS. The latter take some careful planning to position in reference to the screen. LCD projectors usually have a lens shift that can hide a multitude of sins. I have both types in my home. My LCD is brighter than my DLP rig and I use it for outdoor movies and sports at night. My DLP set up is my main theater projector and its calibrated for that purpose. Epson has a turn key system that includes everything you need to get up and running. It would include professional installation. If you choose to go it alone, be patient and do your research. Just don't do too much research or you'll end up like most of us here... suffering from information paralysis

I've owned plenty of each (DLP, LCD, LCOS) and while I agree that ease of setup/installation is important, LCD is not any easier to install than LCOS (though LCOS are usually larger and heavier). The JVCs have lateral and vertical shifting, etc. Many DLPs do not have the same lens shifting functions.

Correct.

I would give strong consideration to the RS20 at your price point. It is what I own and what I would recommend at that price. You can look at others if you like. BenQ, Panasonic, Sharp, Sony and Epson also make some good units in your price range you may wish to look at. You will find it very difficult to locate a good setup for every product you may wish to see.

Getting front projection to work well is much more difficult than the other products you have owned.

I am in the same boat as original poster. Have only owned LCD tv's and plasma and moving into a new house soon, and with the prices being very reasonable now...I want to expand into projectors. I am very new to this technology and trying to acquire as much info as I can.

I am so serious about this that I am still searching for a new house and making sure it has a large gameroom area for the projector install. Of all the projector setups I have seen (and I have not seen many), 110" seems to be where you really start to see a difference between a 'really large screen' and something that feels truly cinematic. Of course, I am simply speaking from my own experience and not knocking any setup smaller than 110", but for me...anything less than 110" does not feel like you are truly immersed in the experience. So, the room I choose will have to accomodate this size.

umr, you mentioned in an earlier post that simply choosing the right screen and projector are not the only factors. I am curious what else the factors would be? Lighting is obviously one...space probably another, but what else? If you have the space and minimal lighting, I am curious what else needs to be considered.

The most frustrating thing for me, and one that was mentioned by a previous poster, is that it is very difficult to see many of these different projectors in a setup somewhere. The only pj's I have seen in action are the Sony VPL-VW60, the JVC RS1 and the Mitsubishi HC5000. To my eye, the Mitsu looked best...the Sony was great on Blu-Ray but soft to my eye on normal HD content, and the JVC seemed to have something that looked like the old 'silk-screen effect', or a kind of shimmering on white or bright backgrounds. I am very sensitive to this and hate it when seeing it on cheap rear proj. DLP displays at Best Buy or CC. Of course, the JVC projector was nowhere near as bad, but to my eye, the brighter background still had a little of that annoying shimmering effect that I don't like. Who knows...maybe it's just me...but it's not something I could live with, not for that kind of money. I do realize the JVC has a great reputation, but it's just not for me.

I want to test out the Epson and the Sim2, if possible. I think any of these pj's will look great on Blu-Ray, but I'd like to see how they do with sat or cable HD content and fast motion, particularly sports. I suspect that is where things somewhat get separated.

One question I have though- in movie theaters, you notice there are very low lit lights still on in the theater...it is not 100% dark. So, wouldn't it be natural then, in a home setting, to have some very minimal dim lighting as well? Just curious. The room I choose will probably have very little light...if there's a window, I plan to seal it off.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice or feedback. I am salivating at the thought of getting a pj in my future new home...this is something I've wanted for a long time. Cheers.

I find the impact of screen size once you are watching a film is totally a function of seat location. When you walk in a room the bigger the screen the cooler the room looks, but that is a different issue. The larger the screen the harder and more expensive it is to have a great image and sound. The further you sit from the speakers the more important room acoustics are to sound quality. The amplifier power requirements for sitting further from the screen increase dramatically and the speaker distortion will increase with it unless you go to more and more expensive gear. The biggest mistakes I see in home theaters are too big a screen, poor heat dissipation, poor room acoustics, poor speaker positioning and poor light management. For example one of the best home theaters I have worked on has a 15' wide 2.40 screen, but to make that work he uses a $40,000 projector and about a $200,000 sound system with very high grade self powered professional monitors. Trying to do big screens with cheap gear does not work very well. This is not to say 110" is a huge screen, but it is not a size that will be easy to light up and the room spacing for it will increase the cost of the audio equipment if you want to do it well.

Other factors to consider for video alone are relative screen size, throw ratio, projector location effect on fan noise level, wall and floor color effect on contrast ratio, screen height, seat location effect on screen artifacts, screen aspect ratio, anamorphic lens limitations, auto/manual zoom, lens shift capability, effect of screen gain on seating positions, target light output from screen when lamp is new and old, flexibility of projector iris/lamp output, acoustically transparent screen or not, effect of transparent screen on image relative to seat location, effect of acoustically transparent screen on light output, equipment light output effect on image, controlling projector light spill, projector location for optimum light output and contrast ratio, projector location effect on seating and possible head hazard, height of seating platform, HDMI cable limitations for projector relative to equipment location, how to condition power to the projector, how many cables to route to the projector, is a video processor required, impact of screen location on speaker positioning, and heat dissipation.

I find any light in the room detracts from the film. This is one of the advantages of a well done home theater. I find myself drawn to any lights in my field of view. Lights will also reduce the on/off contrast and potentially alter the color of scenes.

"Shimmer" could be a function of the screen material. I just upgraded my Infocus 7205 to a Sony VPL-HW10 and I see a bit of "shimmer" on my first generation Stewart Firehawk. The increased resolution is causing the screen surface (not completely smooth) to become visible. StudioTek 130 G3 screen material may be in my future.

That is the probable cause. This is another problem with big screens. Screens with gain can add artifacts to the image. People who want the cleanest image should consider neutral or gray screens and appropriately match the screen size to the projector and seating locations.

Trying to compare projectors is very difficult unless you are in the same room with the same screen that you plan to use those variables can swamp the difference in projectors. A poor room will also look bad for any projector.

I do not find noise to be a problem in my install, but mine is in a location that minimizes its effect on my seating location.

I would only count on a CEDIA dealer to be able to wire and mount things properly at best. Beyond that my experience with them is not that great. I recently worked on a job for example where his CEDIA installer put a perf screen in and used a different speaker for the center and mounted it poorly instead of doing the same thing as the mains which is one of the primary advantages of a perf. When I pointed out the problems caused by this the owner was pretty upset because what the installer did cost him about $1k more money for the speaker and resulted in lower quality sound.

Well, needless to say, I wish you were working on my system. Thanks for the excellent info. I live in Dallas, and finding it very difficult to find good, knowledgable installers.

When you mention that 110" presents lighting issues, how can you be sure you select a projector that is bright enough for this? Going strictly by Lumens? What are the minimum specs for lighting 110" adequately? How high of a gain screen is too much for this size? Does it depend on the throw distance, as you referred to? The couple of installers I talked to hardly addressed these concerns...they simply said something like, 'we just match up the screen to the particular projector and go from there...it's pretty simple.' They said they would decide the particular screen based on the brands they carry and that I don't have to be involved in the decision.

The problem is, I am not educated enough to tell an installer exactly what I want, when it comes to pairing the equipment together. If I see a pj I like, I have no idea what to consider for a matching screen. I have looked at various sites on the internet, but the info isn't all that understandable and concise. It's like trying to build a house without knowing what kind of foundation you have...it's pretty frustrating. So, any info you have would be most helpful...if even to give me a starting point of where to go. Thanks!

Follow-up question. For a screen size of 110", what is the ideal throw distance for the projector?

I do travel to Dallas and consult with clients in other markets. I would use an installer for what they are good at and someone like myself for what we do well.

You have to do something called a design to know what is the way to go with what you want. This involves some calculations. Lumens of course enter into the equation.

It depends on your PQ goals, the projector, where you want the projector to sit and if you choose an anamorphic lens. There is no simple answer to most of these questions.

For example in my own theater I wanted the projector 10 to 12 ft from my screen. I also wanted a 1.0 gain screen and I wanted it near the ceiling with good contrast. The projector and situation that best fit my needs was an 86 inch 1.0 screen 10 ft from the screen with my front row seating 9.5 ft from the screen and the second row about 14 ft from the screen using a JVC RS20. This puts the projector at close to the full zoom which allows an iris setting of about -7 with a new lamp at low power that gives me a good balance of light output, ANSI contrast and on/off contrast. It also places the projector behind the primary row where it will not be heard and high enough that people in the back row under 6 5" will not have to duck. Using the iris at -7 when new also gives me plenty of flexibility as the lamp dies to keep the light level up. Low lamp power also keeps it quieter which improves sound quality. Low lamp power also increases lamp and display life. Having the back row at its position was also tied to the audio design to minimize the effect of bass modal issues and multiple subwoofer position impact on seating.

Everyone else's situation will differ of course, but that is the kind of logic that should come into play.

UMR, That gives me a very good starting point...thanks. I am finding that projectorreviews.com is also a decent place for information.

I am still a handful of months away from doing this, but I may very well contact you for possible advice and perhaps a consultation down the road. My hope is that my room will be home theater dedicated, with no ambient light at all. I am not 100-percent sure the size of the room yet, since I am house hunting with this goal specifically in mind. Luckily, I am a bachelor and don't have to placate anyone but myself. I remain enamored with 110" (having seen this size at a friend's house and in demonstrations as well). I would imagine (if my calculations are correct), that I would need a room at least 19 or 20 feet deep to accomodate this size, not even taking into account the width of the room for ideal audio, speakers, etc.

My early leading candidate, based on what I have read and seen, is the Mitsubishi HC7000. I liked what I saw from the Mitsu HC5000, an older model. This pj is not very bright, apparently, so would require near total darkness. Not sure if it's enough to drive that 110" size. I am not sure how much I should take this into consideration for the future, because I don't know if pj's typically lose brightness incrementally or all at once. Maybe it's a mistake to start with something already not all that bright in the first place.

wow this all sounds harder then i though it would be, can't you just sit the pj on a table and point it at a screen that was what i was hoping to do, or does it have to hang from the ceiling and be centered in the middle of the screen?

Of course that is an option and there are times when it is the best option. The flexiblity of these systems is the reason they require some thought to get it the way you want it.

5 years ago I brought projectors (1024x768 panels!!) home from work and projected onto the walls for movie nights. The family was thrilled. My first home theater PJ was 1280x720 and I projected to a smooth (400 grit sanded) painted wall (with black frame) for 6 months before considering a screen. Eventually I found myself on a 1080p PJ and a Da-Lite high power screen.

The point is in 5 years I've been through 4 projectors and 2 screen surfaces. You are starting out with an image quality I did not see for 3 years.

Buy a Sony HW-10 and project to a wall to see what works and later buy a screen or build a room. This PJ is by far and away better than at least the first 3 I used.

If you really want to enjoy movies (with deep blacks/great CR), you absolutely need a dark room. Spend the money on the proper light controlled environment or you will be wasting your money on any FP that is not a light cannon. The beauty and associated costs of a great FP comes from its ability to project a decent amount of light but maintain great CR and blacks. If your environment has too much ambient light (I prefer none or almost none), it will wash out and ruin the projected image. There's no way you can watch Blade Runner, Dark City, The Dark Knight, etc. and enjoy the movie and all the details on BD without a dark room for you FP. Period.

So, either build a separate room or make sure you block most/all of the light from windows, doors, and even the AV equipment. You have to start there before you can begin to consider what screen or projector to get. If not, you're truly wasting you time and should buy the largert RPTV you can afford and live with it.

Sounds like good advice, Steven. Do you have a preference between DLP and LCD projectors? I am curious why DLP is thought to be the bees knees in pj's, when the same technology seems outdated in rear proj's. I suppose that has nothing to do with it, but I am simply curious. There's a lot about this technology I don't know about.

One thing that concerns me is the existence of all the bugaboo's that occasionally frustrate me with tv's...screen door effect, motion blur, rainbow effect. I think my worst nightmare would be to shell out 10K on equipment and then see something in my pj I don't like. This has happened to me with LCD and plasma before....I get the thing home and things pop up that I never saw in the retail environment at the store. If you're spending 1K on a tv, fine...maybe you can live with it. But how can you be sure that these things won't rear their ugly head once you get the pj installed in your home? You can't just sit and watch several hours straight in a demo situation...how can you reasonably be expected to know for sure what works for you?

I am probably bothered more by SSE and SDE, etc than other people...so maybe I will never be able to find something that works for me. But I still want to try.

I've owned LCD, DLP, and LCOS. I prefer LCOS for the film-like smoothness of the projected image. I don't like the SDE that I've seen from LCD. LCOS has a better fill factor and I don't like the tricks or defocusing needed by LCD to reduce SDE. So, if you're bothered by SDE, you're likely to stay away from LCD too.

I'm not familiar with SSE, but it sounds like that might have more to do with screen gain or other issues. I really can't comment on that. If I don't see it now, then I don't want it pointed out. Ignorance is bliss.

You didn't mention RBE, so perhaps like me, you don't have an issue with this and therefore can live with single chip DLP projectors. That does provide for more options. However, be mindful of others that may be watching in your theater, they may see it. And even if you don't see RBE, you may still have some eye fatigue after viewing for any extended period. I think that the most recent advances in projectors have been from the LCOS camps. We all owe thanks to Sony's aggressive pricing considering where we were just 3 years ago.

IMHO, home theaters are an evolution. I have gone from a barely finished room with some recliners, a couch on paint cans, a bare wall, and a rear curtain for light control to something I'm proud of and can thoroughly enjoy. And it's not done because at some point, I'll update my screen to a 2.35:1 setup and a new PJ when the tech. advances and price are right for the upgrade.

Do the upfront research and see as many demos as you can. Look for fellow AVS members in your area. Most are probably very happy to show off their setups. Buy the best price-performing projector you can afford at the time and enjoy it. I'd also advise cutting down on your AVS reading at that point. The grass is always greener, so you'll be better served by watching movies in your HT then reading about the latest and greatest toy you don't have.

They lose light output incrementally over time.