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2009 Vizio XVT Series: 240Hz, USB input, LED backlight [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 2

post #31 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

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You mean, the new Sharp LC-65XS1U with a list price of only $16.000 ???

No I meant was 65 XS94 series
post #32 of 4988
I'm really looking forward to the 55" LED set. It will be interesting how it compares to the Sony XBR8 and Samsung A950. Plus the new local dimming LED sets from Toshiba and LG.
post #33 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

I'm really looking forward to the 55" LED set. It will be interesting how it compares to the Sony XBR8 and Samsung A950. Plus the new local dimming LED sets from Toshiba and LG.

I am as well really looking forward to this set. The feature list on this set for 1999 is sick at that price. I would think Costco would sell it for 1799. I can't wait
post #34 of 4988
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slyguy10 View Post

I am as well really looking forward to this set. The feature list on this set for 1999 is sick at that price. I would think Costco would sell it for 1799. I can't wait

Likewise, if Costco sells the $1400 47" for around $1100-$1200, that would be awesome.
post #35 of 4988
Thread Starter 
From cnet:



$1999, 55-inch Vizio goes for LED price jugular
Posted by David Katzmaier

More often than not at the January Consumer Electronics Show, manufacturers refuse to divulge pricing information until closer to the product's launch later in the year, usually citing vague competitive reasons. Not Vizio. The bargain flat-panel brand isn't shy about pricing, especially when the price is as good as this.

The Vizio VF551XVT represents a new low price point for LCD-based HDTVs with LED backlights. This 55-inch HDTV will cost a mere $1,999 when it hits store shelves in June.

Compared with current 55-inch LED models such as the Samsung LN55A950 and the Sony KDL-55XBR8, which sell for at least $3,500 and $6,500 respectively, the Vizio's price is groundbreaking. It puts LED backlight technology within the realm of affordability for big screen flat-panel shoppers. We can't wait to see how this set performs, but if it provides the same kind of picture quality improvements of current LED TVs, it will be a very good bargain.

LED backlights like the one on the Vizio VF551XVT, as well as on the Sony and Samsung models cited above, use "local dimming" technology, which turns off or dims the backlight in dark areas while leaving it turned-on in brighter areas. The result is significantly improved black-level performance, a major ingredient in picture quality.

Vizio also hit the other big feature buzzword with this model, endowing it with a 240Hz refresh rate. Compared with standard 120Hz with dejudder processing, the extra Hz supposedly improve picture smoothness. The company has said it's improved its dejudder processing over the 120Hz SV470XVT we reviewed last year. Vizio is touting the set's antiglare screen and improved viewing angles, and includes an integrated sound bar with simulated surround capability.

The set also offers a USB input that can play back MPEG-2, H.264, WMV9 Video, along with JPEG photos and MP3 music files, and the company throws in a USB thumbdrive with a preloaded 1080p video.
post #36 of 4988
i had given up on vizio after getting a samsung 530 model and an lg 50 model for roughly the same price as comparable vizio model. looks like they are going to gain back a significant price advantage with these models and so i might be inclined to upgrade.
post #37 of 4988
Apparently the panel is from LG.

http://www.displaydaily.com/index.php
post #38 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc2000y View Post

Apparently the panel is from LG.

http://www.displaydaily.com/index.php

Some interesting new specs. They say only 77% of NTSC color gamut. I thought that LEDs made for better color reproduction. Guess since they are white, it depends on the particular phosphor used. The article also lists 120Hz, but I thouhgt it was already verified to be 240Hz, so definately some discrepency there.

240 zones sounds good. Is that more than the XBR8? I know it is more than the A950.
post #39 of 4988
It's 120hz. They use scanning backlight technique to achieve a pseudo 240hz.
post #40 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc2000y View Post

It's 120hz. They use scanning backlight technique to achieve a pseudo 240hz.

Interesting...I didn't realize this...well for under $2000, that seems reasonable
post #41 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGJOHNB20 View Post

240 zones sounds good. Is that more than the XBR8? I know it is more than the A950.

About the same. Very good for a $2000 screen.
post #42 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled View Post

About the same. Very good for a $2000 screen.

I just wonder if they're really going to be able to deliver a decent model at this price? Sounds too good to be true...but what do I know. I hope it happens.
post #43 of 4988
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonjm View Post

I just wonder if they're really going to be able to deliver a decent model at this price? Sounds too good to be true...but what do I know. I hope it happens.

That's what people have said about the previous Vizio models... And Vizio seems to have delivered.
post #44 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonjm View Post

Sounds too good to be true...

Doesn't it? I'm not sure how they're going to make that price point, either, but I can see they're being very aggressive with their pricing. I'd say the pricing on local dimming displays has been a bit greedy up until now, however.

Vizio doesn't really need to recoupe research and development dollars like the majors do, they only need to worry about the price LG/Chi Mei/whoever is selling them the goods for. If that happens to be low enough that they can turn a profit selling them at $2000, then fantastic.
post #45 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGJOHNB20 View Post

Some interesting new specs. They say only 77% of NTSC color gamut. I thought that LEDs made for better color reproduction. Guess since they are white, it depends on the particular phosphor used. The article also lists 120Hz, but I thouhgt it was already verified to be 240Hz, so definately some discrepency there.

240 zones sounds good. Is that more than the XBR8? I know it is more than the A950.

The article was written by a moron who has about one factual error per sentence. As far as 77% color gamut, well, if it's true, which i seriously doubt, is embarrassing.
post #46 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

The article was written by a moron who has about one factual error per sentence. As far as 77% color gamut, well, if it's true, which i seriously doubt, is embarrassing.

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but could you explain further?
post #47 of 4988
Thread Starter 
From pcmag.com ( http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338779,00.asp ):

Analysis: Is 240-Hz TV Tech Fake? Some Is

ARTICLE DATE: 01.12.09
By Robert Heron

LAS VEGASOne of the most popular buzzwords among LCD television manufacturers on the 2009 CES show floor was 240-Hz frame rate technology, which means effectively updating the pixels twice as fast as current 120-Hz LCD screens.

The result is increased picture clarity and detail when processing video depicting motion - think panning shots, or the game "Rock Band"'s side-scrolling lyrics.

However, only two LCD manufacturers are delivering true 240-Hz pixel performance. The rest are augmenting current 120-Hz technology with advanced backlight systems that, while improving picture quality beyond the capabilities of 120-Hz display systems, are not technically operating at 240-Hz pixel speeds. Call it pseudo-240-Hz, if you will. And there's a negative, too: one of the byproducts of pseudo-240Hz pixel tricks is a reduction in the overall brightness of the resulting picture.

Samsung and Sony are the only two LCD manufacturers delivering full 240-Hz performance - Sony's currently shipping 52-inch XBR7 and upcoming XBR9 models as well as the 2009 Samsung B8000- and B750-series televisions are delivering full 240-Hz screen refresh rates. The pseudo-240Hz displays from companies such as LG, Toshiba, and Vizio are all using 120-Hz LCD technology with scanning backlight technology, a technique that synchronizes the display's pixel updates to a cycling pattern of illumination generated by fluorescent tube or LED array backlight modules: basically, the two types of backlight systems featured in today's high-performance LCD televisions.

To its credit, Toshiba was very candid about its 240-Hz technology, referring to it in its CES press conference as an "effect". Moreover, a recent press release plainly states that the company's 240-GHz branded televisions use a scanning backlight system paired with a 120-Hz panel.

The main reason why some manufacturers choose to use pseudo-240-Hz LCD technology is simple: cost. True 240-Hz LCD televisions currently require the use of two motion compensation/motion estimation (MCME) chips that help generate the interpolated frames used to enhance low frame rate video - particularly 24p video used to encode most movies - and the related costs are passed along to the consumer.

Sticking with a 120-Hz panel and utilizing such scanning backlight modules enables those manufacturers to keep prices low while improving picture performance. A significant downside to this method of LCD performance enhancement is a 50 percent decrease in overall picture brightness due to the pulsing nature of scanning backlight technology.

I spoke with a Samsung engineer at CES, and he half-wondered that if company engineers added a scanning backlight system to Samsung's current 240-Hz displays, should the marketing department then describe them as using 480-Hz display technology? Why not - bigger numbers are better, no?

Here's the bottom line: while I'm sure the scanning backlight systems will prove to be enhance detail for LCD TVs, (as was the case with Samsung's impressive 120Hz LN55A950, it remains to be seen how close the picture performance of pseudo-240Hz will compare to the real thing.
post #48 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc2000y View Post

Apparently the panel is from LG.

http://www.displaydaily.com/index.php

Most of the other Vizio sets are over 92%, why on earth would this XVT set be only 77%? Somebody misspoke or this Senior editor misquoted Lowe. Just because it's on the Internet does not make it true.
post #49 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveru621 View Post

Most of the other Vizio sets are over 92%, why on earth would this XVT set be only 77%? Somebody misspoke or this Senior editor misquoted Lowe. Just because it's on the Internet does not make it true.

On the 77% issue, I think we should wait for confirmation before we all start sending Vizio letters full of mysterious white powder.
post #50 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonjm View Post

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but could you explain further?

As far as the 77% color gamut? Most panels now are at least 92%. So the question arises who makes this panel. The cost of the TV may reflect an inferior panel, however, i think the 77% color gamut mention is a mistake since i haven't seen anywhere else that mentions this.
post #51 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwracer View Post

From pcmag.com ( http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338779,00.asp ):

Analysis: Is 240-Hz TV Tech Fake? Some Is

ARTICLE DATE: 01.12.09
By Robert Heron

LAS VEGASOne of the most popular buzzwords among LCD television manufacturers on the 2009 CES show floor was 240-Hz frame rate technology, which means effectively updating the pixels twice as fast as current 120-Hz LCD screens.

The result is increased picture clarity and detail when processing video depicting motion - think panning shots, or the game "Rock Band"'s side-scrolling lyrics.

However, only two LCD manufacturers are delivering true 240-Hz pixel performance. The rest are augmenting current 120-Hz technology with advanced backlight systems that, while improving picture quality beyond the capabilities of 120-Hz display systems, are not technically operating at 240-Hz pixel speeds. Call it pseudo-240-Hz, if you will. And there's a negative, too: one of the byproducts of pseudo-240Hz pixel tricks is a reduction in the overall brightness of the resulting picture.

Samsung and Sony are the only two LCD manufacturers delivering full 240-Hz performance - Sony's currently shipping 52-inch XBR7 and upcoming XBR9 models as well as the 2009 Samsung B8000- and B750-series televisions are delivering full 240-Hz screen refresh rates. The pseudo-240Hz displays from companies such as LG, Toshiba, and Vizio are all using 120-Hz LCD technology with scanning backlight technology, a technique that synchronizes the display's pixel updates to a cycling pattern of illumination generated by fluorescent tube or LED array backlight modules: basically, the two types of backlight systems featured in today's high-performance LCD televisions.

To its credit, Toshiba was very candid about its 240-Hz technology, referring to it in its CES press conference as an "effect". Moreover, a recent press release plainly states that the company's 240-GHz branded televisions use a scanning backlight system paired with a 120-Hz panel.

The main reason why some manufacturers choose to use pseudo-240-Hz LCD technology is simple: cost. True 240-Hz LCD televisions currently require the use of two motion compensation/motion estimation (MCME) chips that help generate the interpolated frames used to enhance low frame rate video - particularly 24p video used to encode most movies - and the related costs are passed along to the consumer.

Sticking with a 120-Hz panel and utilizing such scanning backlight modules enables those manufacturers to keep prices low while improving picture performance. A significant downside to this method of LCD performance enhancement is a 50 percent decrease in overall picture brightness due to the pulsing nature of scanning backlight technology.

I spoke with a Samsung engineer at CES, and he half-wondered that if company engineers added a scanning backlight system to Samsung's current 240-Hz displays, should the marketing department then describe them as using 480-Hz display technology? Why not - bigger numbers are better, no?

Here's the bottom line: while I'm sure the scanning backlight systems will prove to be enhance detail for LCD TVs, (as was the case with Samsung's impressive 120Hz LN55A950, it remains to be seen how close the picture performance of pseudo-240Hz will compare to the real thing.

I have a samsung 81f and it has led and scanning backlight technology and it does decrease the backlight
when you turn it on, the setting jumps up to 10 on the the backlighting it is the highest setting and can't be adjusted down.
one up side to the 81f led is on motion it shows 800 line the most for a lcd tv in 2007-2008 you can turn off the scanning if you don't like it I wonder if you can do that on the Vizio?
post #52 of 4988
I saw this set this past Thursday in the local Costco store. 200 under MSRP. Picture looked just fine and comparing to a 52in Toshiba next to it, it had better off axis picture.
I guess that doesn't mean much in a brightly lit store. At least the screens were at eye level instead of mounted up high like many there.
I didn't like the wasted space between the speaker bar and the rest of the set. Don't think it would fit in my desired location. Darn...............
post #53 of 4988
I do not think you saw this set but this years model which is 120hz.
post #54 of 4988
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argee View Post

I do not think you saw this set but this years model which is 120hz.

You mean last year's (2008) model.
post #55 of 4988
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post

I have a samsung 81f and it has led and scanning backlight technology and it does decrease the backlight
when you turn it on, the setting jumps up to 10 on the the backlighting it is the highest setting and can't be adjusted down.
one up side to the 81f led is on motion it shows 800 line the most for a lcd tv in 2007-2008 you can turn off the scanning if you don't like it I wonder if you can do that on the Vizio?

We probably won't know until the new HDTVs show up in summer and we have access to the user manuals...
post #56 of 4988
That was the first time I saw the 55inch model in Costco so just made a guess that it was the latest and greatest one.
BTW, I've read above that most 240hz sets are really 120hz but with the addition of LED backlight which is dimmable in the dark scene areas. Is this the way Vizio is going?
I'll have to go back to Costco some day and check the model number on the boxes and read the fine print.

I wish they would have come out with a 52incher instead of 55.
post #57 of 4988
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandude View Post

BTW, I've read above that most 240hz sets are really 120hz but with the addition of LED backlight which is dimmable in the dark scene areas. Is this the way Vizio is going?

Probably... I posted an article from PC Mag about that (above) ^
post #58 of 4988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandude View Post

I saw this set this past Thursday in the local Costco store. 200 under MSRP. Picture looked just fine and comparing to a 52in Toshiba next to it, it had better off axis picture.
I guess that doesn't mean much in a brightly lit store. At least the screens were at eye level instead of mounted up high like many there.
I didn't like the wasted space between the speaker bar and the rest of the set. Don't think it would fit in my desired location. Darn...............

You saw the 550 non-LED model. The 551 LED model is 3~4 months away.

120hz, 240hz. Are you going to see a differance? I doubt it.
post #59 of 4988
Good god, I hope this turns out to be all it's cracked up to be. I have been wrestling between the ln52a650 and hl67a750 for quite a while now. It's been a horrible dilemma between PQ and size. I always felt that 52" was a little too small for that "theater" experience, and when I saw the ln55a950 for the first time the other day it was absolutely love at first sight -- markedly better than the 650/750, which I didn't think was possible... but $4k is just too much to spend on a TV for me. I REALLY hope the PQ on the new Vizio can stand up to at least the a650 Sammy... but if that friggin soundbar comes out red, it's a no-go for me. Horribly ugly!
post #60 of 4988
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post

Good god, I hope this turns out to be all it's cracked up to be. I have been wrestling between the ln52a650 and hl67a750 for quite a while now. It's been a horrible dilemma between PQ and size. I always felt that 52" was a little too small for that "theater" experience, and when I saw the ln55a950 for the first time the other day it was absolutely love at first sight -- markedly better than the 650/750, which I didn't think was possible... but $4k is just too much to spend on a TV for me. I REALLY hope the PQ on the new Vizio can stand up to at least the a650 Sammy... but if that friggin soundbar comes out red, it's a no-go for me. Horribly ugly!

Red??

If you mean Samsung's Touch of Color scheme, I don't think Vizio plans to duplicate it... It's a pretty ridiculous gimmick, if you ask me.
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