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dolby TrueHD from HTPC to Receiver

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
I am in the market for a new motherboard/processor and I am behind the times as far as audio formats are concerned. Here is my setup:
• Powerdvd ultra (has a dolby truehd logo on it)
• LG GGC-H20L
• Onkyo TX-SR875 (with the 7.1 all set up properly)
• Windows Vista Home Prem.
Is there any motherboard out there that will pass the audio through an HDMI cable with the video to my receiver to process? Does this do it?
Thanks,
Jason
post #2 of 52
No, unfortunately that board will only pass DD/DTS and 2 ch PCM to your receiver. If you don't care about bitstreaming DD TrueHD and DTSHD-MA then you can either buy that board and a Radeon 4xxx card or go with a board based on the Nvidia 8200/8300 board, which can send 7.1 PCM through HDMI.
post #3 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadmanInc View Post

No, unfortunately that board will only pass DD/DTS and 2 ch PCM to your receiver. If you don't care about bitstreaming DD TrueHD and DTSHD-MA then you can either buy that board and a Radeon 4xxx card or go with a board based on the Nvidia 8200/8300 board, which can send 7.1 PCM through HDMI.

Do you have any recommendations for nvidia boards? I would prefer to keep all of my components integrated on the board because of space limitations in my case. Cost isn't an issue.
post #4 of 52
Take a look at this store, usually they have a good selection.
post #5 of 52
An onboard bistream of HD audio codecs (dolby truhd and dts hd ma) solution does not exist currently. There are two upcoming solutions out of which one is on the market currently albeit in beta. Read the two threads on asus xonar and auzentech solution.
post #6 of 52
Thread Starter 
I am ok with the 7.1 pcm solution. I have even heard that some people who call themselves audiophiles prefer the 5.1 pcm over the 5.1 bit stream. As long as I can get the 7.1 to my receiver I will be happy. My current setup only allows for 5.1. What's the point of having a $1000+ receiver and not getting the most out of it?
post #7 of 52
They should prefer bitstream (the J word), but with bitstream you don't get audio mixing for secondary audio, so PCM is more practical, especially for us HTPC users. For some reason, I believe that the next version of HDMI will allow two simultaneous bitstreams for mixing in the receiver, forcing another cycle of unnecessary upgrades, but it's only me, and I have been mistaken before.
post #8 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichon View Post

I am ok with the 7.1 pcm solution. I have even heard that some people who call themselves audiophiles prefer the 5.1 pcm over the 5.1 bit stream. As long as I can get the 7.1 to my receiver I will be happy. My current setup only allows for 5.1. What's the point of having a $1000+ receiver and not getting the most out of it?

Despite what "audiophiles" hear, what you hear is more important. Before you decide I'd encourage you to listen to both pcm and bitstream and not just for a short 5 second clip since some scenes (e.g. pure vocals) it may not make much difference but in others it may make a world of a difference. You'll hear all sorts of opinions on this here and elsewhere, that's why I suggest hearing for yourself before you decide.
post #9 of 52
well ffdshow now can handle truehd passing it thru lpcm
post #10 of 52
PCM in any blu-ray player will drop the audio resolution to 48khz/16-bit MAX, most titles are above this.

also ffdshow requires conversion of the source, and it also doesn't work for DTS-HD.

The supposed Asus and the vaporware Auzentech card are your only options.
post #11 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichon View Post

I am ok with the 7.1 pcm solution. I have even heard that some people who call themselves audiophiles prefer the 5.1 pcm over the 5.1 bit stream. As long as I can get the 7.1 to my receiver I will be happy. My current setup only allows for 5.1. What's the point of having a $1000+ receiver and not getting the most out of it?

Ha , that's the first time I've actually ever heard someone say pcm was better. I seen several people argue that bitstreaming sounded better to them clearly, but I don't ever remember reading the other way around.

Now I've seen lots of people argue there is no difference at all. I think we all agree there shouldn't be but anyway. Good luck with pcm.
post #12 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr007 View Post

well ffdshow now can handle truehd passing it thru lpcm

This is interesting. Just saw the change log for the new beta:

# Added support for E-AC3 decoding (Dolby Digital Plus)
# Added support for DTS-HD decoding (core DTS only)
# Added support for Dolby TrueHD and MLP decoding (full TrueHD decoding or AC3 can pass-through depending on config)

Has anyone tried this? Hopefully they get DTS-HD working as well in full pass through, but apparently TrueHD can pass through. MPC-HC + Anydvd = watch blu-ray in bitstreamed HD audio (well just dolby truhd for now). Please tell me someone tried this.
post #13 of 52
Yes, I'm trying to get this to work right now with an ATI 4650. I'm getting nothing but static when I set ffdshow to LPCM output. Using integer output I can hear sound fine but I'm sure the quality isn't right.... not exactly sure what the problem is.
post #14 of 52
I just installed an HD 4670 (up from an HD 2600XT) and was successful in getting 7.1 (even though I only run 5.1 speakers) to my Denon AVR. But this is what I noticed and I was not happy with the performance. While the Denon I have is not able to do DTS-HD or DD TrueHD, it can do 7.1 LPCM. Now while it did receive the signal via HDMI, you do not get any DD or DTS handling of the signal. It would lite up in my case the 5.1 speakers that were getting a signal but never light up DD or DTS. Its was direct out the HD 4760 and into the Denon AVR-2807. And I was getting the same with Vista and it was showing 5.1 sound all the time. But there is no control over levels. Every time I swapped a movie I would get bass distortion on one movie, reset the bass and the next movie it was too low or the channels were not adjusted and I would have to readjust it again.

I guess what I am saying and it might be my older (2 years...LOL) Denon amp, but I had no control over levels without having to fiddle every time with them via the HDMI 7.1 (or in my case 5.1) I found that each movie I had to reset my bass and readjust my front speakers. From what I understand DD and DTS provide a dynamic range to each speaker, that part of DD and DTS, but this strips that away and its just wide open. So the sound while it sounded fine, was all over the place with each movie.

This is just my experience and if my receiver had DTS or DD-HD 7.1 I might have a different result.

It was easier to go back to the optical out and run just plain old DD and DTS 5.1

I would appreciate any comments if there was anything I am missing that might make this work for me?
post #15 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by hceuterpe View Post

also ffdshow requires conversion of the source

The ffdshow-tryouts natively decode TrueHD when connected to the MPC-HC or ArcSoft demuxes.

As you stated, it does not yet decode DTS-HD but it will decode the DTS-Core from a DTS-HD track. (I know... DTS-Core is not HD audio but I'm just passing along the info.)
post #16 of 52
In my case it's even worse. I finally got ffdshow to work with the cyberlink audio decoder via LPCM. The big problem for me is that the channels are all out of whack. It sounds very tinny and it seems like sound isn't coming from the correct speakers. Hmmm.
post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by convexion View Post

In my case it's even worse. I finally got ffdshow to work with the cyberlink audio decoder via LPCM. The big problem for me is that the channels are all out of whack. It sounds very tinny and it seems like sound isn't coming from the correct speakers. Hmmm.

The tryouts fixed the channel mapping issue as of 12/08/08.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=613

Not sure what you mean by "I finally got ffdshow to work with the cyberlink audio decoder via LPCM". You should not need the cyberlink audio decoder:



You can also use the MPC Demux and your choice of video decoders.
post #18 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ymarker View Post

This is interesting. Just saw the change log for the new beta:

# Added support for E-AC3 decoding (Dolby Digital Plus)
# Added support for DTS-HD decoding (core DTS only)
# Added support for Dolby TrueHD and MLP decoding (full TrueHD decoding or AC3 can pass-through depending on config)

Has anyone tried this? Hopefully they get DTS-HD working as well in full pass through, but apparently TrueHD can pass through. MPC-HC + Anydvd = watch blu-ray in bitstreamed HD audio (well just dolby truhd for now). Please tell me someone tried this.

Has anyone successfully get TrueHD passthrough in MPC-HC over HDMI ??

Why MPC-HC not output DTS-HD MA in bitstream ?? (HDCP issue ??)

post #19 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by aibo99 View Post

Has anyone successfully get TrueHD passthrough in MPC-HC over HDMI ??

Why MPC-HC not output DTS-HD MA in bitstream ?? (HDCP issue ??)


The only way of bitstreaming DTS-HD and Dolby True HD is via the Xonar HD 1.3 or the forthcoming Auzentech.

I believe that this is because bitstreaming of these formats requires a Protected Audio Path - and none of the other HDMI audio solutions which support PCM multichannel will support this (whether limited by a non-existent MS driver model for protected path audio or a hardware limitation I don't know)
post #20 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by hceuterpe View Post

PCM in any blu-ray player will drop the audio resolution to 48khz/16-bit MAX, most titles are above this.

Are you sure it is most titles? I know it is a significant number, but I thought 48k/16bit releases were still in the majority...

Of course there is a quality loss when dropping from 96 or 192kHz to 48, and from >16 bit to 16 bit. However this quality loss may be less significant to many people (particularly when cost is folded into the equation) than the - to many - much greater quality loss inherent between DD5.1/DTS5.1 (which are pretty lossy) and Dolby True HD / DTS HD MA even when downsampled in some cases.

AIUI even when the original soundtrack IS 48k/16bit often PC decoding and PC bitstreaming solutions sound different - because there are variables in the decoding process which amps and PCs may have set differently (to do with LFE management, dynamic range compensation etc.?)
post #21 of 52
I'm trying to decode TrueHD on my HTPC and send out 7.1 analog to my A/V receiver.
Test bluray: Spiderman 3 (H.264, TrueHD w/core and LPCM)

When using the TrueHD stream, MPC-HC is using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right as I would expect it to use the ffdshow filter which can decode TrueHD.

When using the LPCM stream, MPC-HC is also using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right either.

How can I verify that MPC-HC is decoding TrueHD and not the core?

Maybe it's easier to just buy a Xonar HD 1.3. Would MPC-HC just passthrough the TrueHD to the sound card? And then it would be decoded at the A/V receiver(HDMI 1.3 compatible), right?
post #22 of 52
I'll through out the idea of getting a Popcorn Hour A-110 JUST for BluRay playback. It does bitstreaming output of all HD Audio types (TrueHD, DTS-MA, and LPCM). It's doesn't downsample or anything.. just sends out the untouched audio.

You can use it with a hard drive in it or stream the files over a network (I do the latter).

The price of the A-110 is about the same ($250 after shipping) as a sound card that can also bitstream.....with any headaches!

The biggest problem I had is that most remuxing software out there doesn't handle TrueHD properly, so I had to rerip a few movies using ts4np (sp?) which is just an updated version of TsRemux.

Good Luck,
B
post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishallowell View Post

I'm trying to decode TrueHD on my HTPC and send out 7.1 analog to my A/V receiver.
Test bluray: Spiderman 3 (H.264, TrueHD w/core and LPCM)

When using the TrueHD stream, MPC-HC is using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right as I would expect it to use the ffdshow filter which can decode TrueHD.

When using the LPCM stream, MPC-HC is also using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right either.

How can I verify that MPC-HC is decoding TrueHD and not the core?

Maybe it's easier to just buy a Xonar HD 1.3. Would MPC-HC just passthrough the TrueHD to the sound card? And then it would be decoded at the A/V receiver(HDMI 1.3 compatible), right?

you could uninstall ac3filter.

also, you could look at the ac3filter settings. Just because the filter is there doesn't mean it is doing anything to the audio. it can be setup so the output = input.

if you leave ac3filter in you can use it to see what is being passed to it.
post #24 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post

I'll through out the idea of getting a Popcorn Hour A-110 JUST for BluRay playback. It does bitstreaming output of all HD Audio types (TrueHD, DTS-MA, and LPCM). It's doesn't downsample or anything.. just sends out the untouched audio.

You can use it with a hard drive in it or stream the files over a network (I do the latter).

The price of the A-110 is about the same ($250 after shipping) as a sound card that can also bitstream.....with any headaches!

The biggest problem I had is that most remuxing software out there doesn't handle TrueHD properly, so I had to rerip a few movies using ts4np (sp?) which is just an updated version of TsRemux.

Good Luck,
B

I haven't had a single glitch using eac3to for about 20 titles now. Which titles gave you problems? What was the issue?
post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post

I'll through out the idea of getting a Popcorn Hour A-110 JUST for BluRay playback. It does bitstreaming output of all HD Audio types (TrueHD, DTS-MA, and LPCM). It's doesn't downsample or anything.. just sends out the untouched audio.

You can use it with a hard drive in it or stream the files over a network (I do the latter).

The price of the A-110 is about the same ($250 after shipping) as a sound card that can also bitstream.....with any headaches!

The biggest problem I had is that most remuxing software out there doesn't handle TrueHD properly, so I had to rerip a few movies using ts4np (sp?) which is just an updated version of TsRemux.

Good Luck,
B

I have a Popcorn hour A-110, and the major advantage is that it can output TrueHD and DTS-HD MA by bitstream over HDMI. Sometimes, it does not work due to source file incompatibility.

However, it is fun to build and customize a HTPC
post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishallowell View Post

I'm trying to decode TrueHD on my HTPC and send out 7.1 analog to my A/V receiver.
Test bluray: Spiderman 3 (H.264, TrueHD w/core and LPCM)

When using the TrueHD stream, MPC-HC is using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right as I would expect it to use the ffdshow filter which can decode TrueHD.

When using the LPCM stream, MPC-HC is also using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right either.

How can I verify that MPC-HC is decoding TrueHD and not the core?

Maybe it's easier to just buy a Xonar HD 1.3. Would MPC-HC just passthrough the TrueHD to the sound card? And then it would be decoded at the A/V receiver(HDMI 1.3 compatible), right?

There are many bugs with the Xonar HDAV 1.3, and it must use TMT to output TrueHD by bitstream.

MPC-HC could be not used with Xonar HDAV 1.3 together.
post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishallowell View Post

I'm trying to decode TrueHD on my HTPC and send out 7.1 analog to my A/V receiver.
Test bluray: Spiderman 3 (H.264, TrueHD w/core and LPCM)

When using the TrueHD stream, MPC-HC is using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right as I would expect it to use the ffdshow filter which can decode TrueHD.

When using the LPCM stream, MPC-HC is also using the filter: AC3Filter. This doesn't seem right either.

How can I verify that MPC-HC is decoding TrueHD and not the core?

Maybe it's easier to just buy a Xonar HD 1.3. Would MPC-HC just passthrough the TrueHD to the sound card? And then it would be decoded at the A/V receiver(HDMI 1.3 compatible), right?

In the AC3Filter configuration, uncheck PCM on the System tab. That will take care of the LPCM issue.

For the TrueHD problem, use a filter manager like RadLight and set the merit for ffdShow to be higher than that of AC3Filter. (This should also take care of the LPCM issue as well.)
post #28 of 52
For the TrueHD problem I used the filter manager to make the ffdshow merit higher than the AC3Filter.
Now MPC-HC selects this filter: AC3 Audio Decoder (low merit)
For the LPCM: It selects this filter: AC3 Audio Decoder (low merit)
I can't find that filter in the filter manager to lower it's merit...

Here's what I'm hoping to get:
MPC-HC feeds the TrueHD to ffdshow where it is decoded to 7.1 analog. From there it should be sent to my sound card and out as 7.1 analog to my receiver.
post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishallowell View Post

For the TrueHD problem I used the filter manager to make the ffdshow merit higher than the AC3Filter.
Now MPC-HC selects this filter: AC3 Audio Decoder (low merit)
For the LPCM: It selects this filter: AC3 Audio Decoder (low merit)
I can't find that filter in the filter manager to lower it's merit...

Here's what I'm hoping to get:
MPC-HC feeds the TrueHD to ffdshow where it is decoded to 7.1 analog. From there it should be sent to my sound card and out as 7.1 analog to my receiver.

In the ffdshow configuration, set the AC3 and MLP decoders to "libavcodec".
post #30 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

In the ffdshow configuration, set the AC3 and MLP decoders to "libavcodec".

What is the difference between libavcodec and liba52 when processing AC3 ??

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