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Why Moxi should charge monthly fees for their DVR service...

post #1 of 21
1/10/09 at 11:04am
Thread Starter 
If the cost to build a high definition dual tuner dvr set top box, that is high quality with good software and offers a good guide is so much that you have to charge $800 per unit, then you need a different business plan.

I would love to buy a Moxi DVR. I have Verizon FIOS with the Motorola QIP6416-2 High Def DVR. Due to Verizon's poor guide data and Verizon's sluggish, buggy, and poorly designed softare, I hate the thing.

I want another solution!!! To me, my only option is Tivo. I want more choices and specifically I would love to be considering Moxi's new DVR! But with an $800 price tag, it's not even a consideration. Especially when right now I just pay <$20 per month for the one from FIOS.

Moxi needs to realize this as I am certainly not alone in my feelings. Tivo realized it long ago, and I bet you Tivo is not at all concerned with the Moxi because it's doomed for failure.

If they want $800 per unit in the end, they need to charge $300 and $12 per month for usage. $12 + $5 cable card rental fee from Verizon puts it at $17 per month, which I could then bring myself to justify fronting the $300. But there is no way I'm gonna front $800, even if my monthly fee drops to $5 per month instead of $17.

They should have at least included Tru2Way for that price. Not that it would have changed my feelings, but knowing that's gonna be the future, now I *definitely* wouldn't front $800.

So here's my appeal to Moxi...Please come out with a similar $300 unit with monthly subscription fees! I would love to see some competition in the direct to consumer DVRs, but with an $800 price, you aren't even a consideration for me.
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post #2 of 21
1/10/09 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

If the cost to build a high definition dual tuner dvr set top box, that is high quality with good software and offers a good guide is so much that you have to charge $800 per unit, then you need a different business plan.

You mean, like charging $250 per unit, and then $15 per month? Uh, TiVo is trying that, and doesn't break-even, year after year after year.

The reality is that there may not be any profitable business plan for a high quality, dual-tuner, HD DVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

I want another solution!!!

There will be very few solutions until a substantial number customers are willing to pay a premium for such solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

Moxi needs to realize this as I am certainly not alone in my feelings.

You've got it backwards. Moxi realizes the reality. TiVo realizes the reality. FiOS realizes the reality. With respect, I believe you now need to realize the reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

Tivo realized it long ago, and I bet you Tivo is not at all concerned with the Moxi because it's doomed for failure.

Why do you think that TiVo is any better off than Moxi? A 250GB TiVo with lifetime service is $700. A 500GB Moxi with lifetime service is $800. They're pretty comparable.

Again, there may not be any profitable business plan for a high quality, dual-tuner, HD DVR.
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post #3 of 21
1/10/09 at 5:45pm
Tivo has deals in place with Comcast and Cox, as well as future D* DVR in the works.

Moxi has.........

well, if I were looking to see who was to be in business in 2 years for my "lifetime sub", I believe I would look no further than Tivo.
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post #4 of 21
1/10/09 at 8:51pm
And Moxi has sold half a million STBs and has contracts with at least half a dozen cable companies, including Charter, Bend and the like. Up and coming, not down and out.
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post #5 of 21
1/10/09 at 9:32pm
Thread Starter 
I know a number of people that own a Tivo (by purchasing it through a store), and even more that would purchase a Tivo, if they wanted a solution other than what the cable company offers.

I know *zero* people that would ever even consider purchasing a Moxi because of its $800 price tag.

Moxi's only hope for survival and growth is through contracts with cable companies (which is probably their intention). The direct to consumer market is dead for them at that price tag.

'Nuff said.
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post #6 of 21
1/10/09 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonm42 View Post

And Moxi has sold half a million STBs and has contracts with at least half a dozen cable companies, including Charter, Bend and the like. Up and coming, not down and out.

Comcast 25 Million TV Subs
D* 18 Million+ Subs
Cox 6 Million +
TiVO Subs 3.9 Million

Charter 5 Million Subs with stock price at .18 cents
Bend - a family business in Central Oregon with 100,000 or so subs?

Certainly you can't be serious
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post #7 of 21
1/10/09 at 9:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonm42 View Post

And Moxi has sold half a million STBs and has contracts with at least half a dozen cable companies, including Charter, Bend and the like. Up and coming, not down and out.

My whole post was about direct to consumer sales. Not cable company sales. Moxi's 1/2 a million stbs are through cable companies:

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.co...xi_box_fi.html
"Allen started Digeo in 1999 and the company's slowly but steadily been providing advanced set-top boxes to cable companies, which have installed about 500,000 units in customer homes."

They didn't sell 500,000 direct to consumer sales. I'm not talking about these types of deals and don't care about them as Verizon won't be renting them to me anyway, so they don't provide the options that I asked for. The direct to consumer model does, but with an $800 price tag, it's not even a consideration for myself or 99% of those considering purchasing one.
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post #8 of 21
1/10/09 at 9:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

You've got it backwards. Moxi realizes the reality. TiVo realizes the reality. FiOS realizes the reality. With respect, I believe you now need to realize the reality.

The reality is, that if Moxi wants to be a player in the direct to consumer sales, they will fail at that price tag. They will only work their way into a very small niche of consumers.
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post #9 of 21
1/10/09 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

Charter 5 Million Subs with stock price at .18 cents

.18 cents? I don't think so. You must mean 18 cents ($.18).
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post #10 of 21
1/10/09 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

Comcast 25 Million TV Subs
D* 18 Million+ Subs
Cox 6 Million +
TiVO Subs 3.9 Million

Charter 5 Million Subs with stock price at .18 cents
Bend - a family business in Central Oregon with 100,000 or so subs?

Certainly you can't be serious

Just a minor correction, Tivo had only 3.4 million subscribers in Oct 2008....they lost about 1 million customers the past 6 quarters. Only 1.6 million are Tivo-owned customers - the others 1.8 million are MSOs. Although Tivo has a new agreement with DirecTV and some cable MSOs, the new D*vo won't be available until later this year, the D* HD DVR works pretty well, and the D*vo will cost extra.

I really don't like the Tivo HD box (especially after having used an EchoStar HD DVR the past three years), but I am tired of deleting recordings on the less-than-stellar FiOS DVR with the miniscule hard-drive. The Moxi HD DVR looks pretty good and I would like to give it a shot, but $800 is a lot of money and you're correct...Moxi may be here today, but gone tomorrow.
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post #11 of 21
1/10/09 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

...it's not even a consideration for myself or 99% of those considering purchasing one.

I like the the looks of the Moxi HD and, while I am not happy about the price, it appears to be priced similar to Tivo. However, even if the box was 10-times better than Tivo, it's not Tivo and they certainly don't have the brand recognition. If Moxi can get the stay in business by pricing this box at $599 with no fees, then I will buy one.
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post #12 of 21
1/11/09 at 4:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

The reality is, that if Moxi wants to be a player in the direct to consumer sales, they will fail at that price tag. They will only work their way into a very small niche of consumers.

You missed the reality I laid out for you. TiVo is not profitable.

Again, there may not be any profitable business plan for a high quality, dual-tuner, HD DVR.
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post #13 of 21
1/11/09 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by riffjim4069 View Post

I like the the looks of the Moxi HD and, while I am not happy about the price, it appears to be priced similar to Tivo. However, even if the box was 10-times better than Tivo, it's not Tivo and they certainly don't have the brand recognition. If Moxi can get the stay in business by pricing this box at $599 with no fees, then I will buy one.

I've seen it stated elsewhere that mean time to failure for a current generation DVR is ~ 4 years; so thats a $200 difference over 4 years which is $50 a year, which is what, 3 months of subscription at $18? I don't think $200 makes a difference, really. The primary issues are marketing and getting the brand recognition.

Who else at CES is displaying something comparable?
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post #14 of 21
1/11/09 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonm42 View Post

I've seen it stated elsewhere that mean time to failure for a current generation DVR is ~ 4 years; so thats a $200 difference over 4 years which is $50 a year, which is what, 3 months of subscription at $18? I don't think $200 makes a difference, really. The primary issues are marketing and getting the brand recognition.

Who else at CES is displaying something comparable?

I asked Moxi, via email, if they offered an extended warranty and/or if they have a flat-rate repair price. I received no reply! I am not going to fork over that kind of money without just to be SOL should the receive implode in 18-months. I need to know what I'll get at least 48-months of use in order to justify the purchase.
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post #15 of 21
1/11/09 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by riffjim4069 View Post

I asked Moxi, via email, if they offered an extended warranty and/or if they have a flat-rate repair price. I received no reply! I am not going to fork over that kind of money without just to be SOL should the receive implode in 18-months. I need to know what I'll get at least 48-months of use in order to justify the purchase.

They are probably busy with CES -- I got an answer w/in 24 hours to a question I had for them. I agree with you on the 48 months -- significant investment should last for a while. (By then we'll all be at HDMI 2.1 or something .)
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post #16 of 21
1/11/09 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonm42 View Post

And Moxi has sold half a million STBs and has contracts with at least half a dozen cable companies, including Charter, Bend and the like. Up and coming, not down and out.

And they've been in the business since what, '99? Also, consider the fact that it wasn't long ago they supposedly had *three* new products in the pipeline, none of which actually materialized. They still don't have a CableCARD-enabled box for MSOs, so their growth potential in that space until that's rectified is zero (due to the 7/07 mandate).

I'll admit I bought a Series3 TiVo when they were $800, but not many people will - hence why TiVo pushed to develop a box that could be sold at a lower price point. I have to agree with others - unless Moxi lowers prices, or goes with TiVo's monthly service charge model, they're not going to be improving their install base. (And bicker's right - let's not even get started on the question of being able to do so *profitably*.)
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post #17 of 21
1/11/09 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

And they've been in the business since what, '99? Also, consider the fact that it wasn't long ago they supposedly had *three* new products in the pipeline, none of which actually materialized. They still don't have a CableCARD-enabled box for MSOs, so their growth potential in that space until that's rectified is zero (due to the 7/07 mandate).

I'll admit I bought a Series3 TiVo when they were $800, but not many people will - hence why TiVo pushed to develop a box that could be sold at a lower price point. I have to agree with others - unless Moxi lowers prices, or goes with TiVo's monthly service charge model, they're not going to be improving their install base. (And bicker's right - let's not even get started on the question of being able to do so *profitably*.)

But they are still around. Not bad in the current economic climate, and they weathered the dot bomb as well.
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post #18 of 21
1/25/09 at 8:27am
Does anyone have the Moxi HD DVR? I am looking for reviews.
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post #19 of 21
1/2/12 at 9:34pm
I been up and down this DVR market we have for years now. TIVO, DTV, DISH you name it I had it. I gave Moxi a try back around FEB of 2009. Started with a single T1500 model. After about 2 months I had 4 dual tuners and a Moxi Mate added to my setup. In my theater I add a 2TB hard drive for a total of 2.5TB. In that time I had only one DVR go south on me and after emailing (one day) with Moxi they replace the DVR for the cost of shipping. I have to add that the DVR was also out of warranty. I have since gave one DVR to my son and he has added a Mate and is very happy with it. All I can say is only you go Moxi you don't go back.
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post #20 of 21
1/3/12 at 12:19am
This thread's a gas.
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post #21 of 21
1/3/12 at 9:25am
I thought the Moxi was discontinued. They are not for sale on their web site and I don't see any new boxes for sale on the usual web sites -- excluding ebay. If anything, the guy from post #3 above got his answer.
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