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eac3to and TsMuxer - DTS-MA track when muxed in no sound on PS3

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
Hi,

I'm having issues getting my files to play on PS3 or PC for that manner.

I demux the Blu-Ray files with eac3to and extract DTS-MA track and only the 1080p video file so I can create a digital library of my Blu-Ray movies but I want to save space and maintain original quality of audio and video by just extracting the relevant movie info not extras or additional soundtracks.

So I demux it, I get nice 1080p video file and DTS-MA audio track in a file.

I use TsMuxer to make a new m2ts file with the video and audio track and when it's finished I get nice quality video on PS3 but no audio. I try playing on PC too and no audio as well.

What am I doing wrong here?

I tried extracting DTS core with eac3to and used the same process and it works that way but this is really losing information from original audio which I'm trying to avoid.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.
post #2 of 33
Thread Starter 
no one?
post #3 of 33
What do you mean you extract the DTS-MA track? You should be converting the lossless tracks to flac, following this guide http://sites.google.com/site/xorphdstuff/remuxing.
post #4 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capek View Post

What do you mean you extract the DTS-MA track? You should be converting the lossless tracks to flac, following this guide http://sites.google.com/site/xorphdstuff/remuxing.

I could kiss your right now but that would be inappropriate . This is what I needed.

In general I know what you are talking about, but I bought ArcSoft Total Theater to get the decoder and eac3to doesn't recognize it. But this guide is absolutely what I was looking for. When I tried extracting to FLAC I kept getting FLAC exported with DTS core not full unchanged audio.

When you do eac3to -demux it extract DTS-MA track as a separate file with .dtsma extension. That's what I was TsMuxer-ing with video but couldn't get audio on PS3 or PC.

This shows me exactly what to do.

Is eac3to with default decoders even capable of decoding lossless tracks to FLAC in full spectrum?

am I supposed to get Sonic decoder in order to get the full 24bit DTS-MA tracks transferred to FLAC without loss in quality or eac3to covers that with included decoders?

I'm a bit fuzzy in understanding this?

Thanks a lot.
post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozster View Post

Is eac3to with default decoders even capable of decoding lossless tracks to FLAC in full spectrum?

am I supposed to get Sonic decoder in order to get the full 24bit DTS-MA tracks transferred to FLAC without loss in quality or eac3to covers that with included decoders?

I'm a bit fuzzy in understanding this?

Thanks a lot.

Just passing along the info I've received from people much smarter than me.

eac3to can convert TrueHD and PCM tracks to flac natively, but for DTS-MA track you need Sonic decoder. Also check out the thread where this guide was originally found, and where there's a community of people who an help you if you have other questions: http://www.abhdtv.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12314

You'll have to register, but it's a great resource to have.
post #6 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capek View Post

Just passing along the info I've received from people much smarter than me.

eac3to can convert TrueHD and PCM tracks to flac natively, but for DTS-MA track you need Sonic decoder. Also check out the thread where this guide was originally found, and where there's a community of people who an help you if you have other questions: http://www.abhdtv.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12314

You'll have to register, but it's a great resource to have.

Thanks.. I'll check it out for sure.

I'm excited, I'm that much closer to transferring my whole Blu-Ray and HD DVD library onto hard drives for instant access!
post #7 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capek View Post

...but for DTS-MA track you need Sonic decoder...

From http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Eac3to/How_to_Use:

Quote:


DTS-HD decoding can be archived through:

"Sonic Cinemaster Audio Decoder 4.3" DirectShow filter (commercial software)
ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre (commercial software)

Both decode bit-perfect. Sonic is limited to 5.1 or 6.1 channels depending on the source track, while ArcSoft can output up to 7.1 channels. As a result ArcSoft is the default decoder for DTS-HD.

More info (not from the above link): If an "eac3to -test" shows Arcsoft not installed, yet it really is installed, you may just need to re-register the codecs. I *think* registering (regsvr32 codecname.ax) these four worked for me when I had the same issue: arcdemux.ax, asaudio.ax, asudioeffecthd.ax, and asaudiohd.ax. There are some other potential solutions floating around that involves adding the arcsoft codec directory to the path environment variable and such but I could never get them to work.

Example of Arcsoft decoding DST-HD MA, libFlac encoding to FLAC:

Code:
C:\\Temp>eac3to i: 1) 3: audio.flac -1000mb
M2TS, 1 video track, 3 audio tracks, 3 subtitle tracks, 1:56:07
1: Chapters, 21 chapters
2: VC-1, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, English, 7.1 channels, 24 bits, 48khz
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz)
4: DTS, English, 2.0 channels, 24 bits, 255kbps, 48khz
5: DTS, English, 2.0 channels, 24 bits, 255kbps, 48khz
6: Subtitle (PGS), English
7: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
8: Subtitle (PGS), English
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[a03] Decoding with ArcSoft DTS Decoder...
[a03] Encoding FLAC with libFlac...
[a03] Creating file "audio.flac"...
------------------------------------------------
Output of MediaInfo on the FLAC file from above:

Code:
General
Complete name                    : C:\\Temp\\audio.flac
Format                           : FLAC
Format/Info                      : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size                        : 260 MiB
Duration                         : 6mn 35s
Overall bit rate                 : 5 517 Kbps
WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_CHANNEL_MAS : 0X63F
VALID_BITS                       : 24
HDCD                             : 0

Audio
Format                           : FLAC
Format/Info                      : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration                         : 6mn 35s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 5 517 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 8 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Stream size                      : 260 MiB (100%)
Writing library                  : libFLAC 1.2.0 (UTC 2007-07-15)
post #8 of 33
You're right. I have arcsoft as well and that's what eac3to uses to decode DTS-MA tracks.
post #9 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys, arcsoft decoder wasn't recognized by eac3to as I had to manually register in vista with regsvr32 and then path to the ASAudioHD.ax file in total theater folder. Eac3to recognized it ok! Now I have dts he decoder working.

The problem is that sonic cinemaster decoder is not easy to find, at least not legally and as you quoted eric I'm better off with arcsoft and 7.1 support anyways!

I'll give it a go now and see if everything works but I think it's gonna work fine now.

Thanks again.
post #10 of 33
Thread Starter 
Oh oh.. I actually made a mistake.. I actually completely forgot that PS3 can't play MKV.

Now I'm faced with the problem. I have no clue how to make a m2ts file by combining mkv video and FLAC audio. TSMuxer can't recognize FLAC and TSRemux crashes on me.

MKV2VOB won't work either cause it only handles AC3.

I'm out of ideas. Any help?
post #11 of 33
Thread Starter 
Is there something wrong with using eac3to to extract video to mkv and audio as wav and preserve all the DTS-MA or TrueHD information? Will that work?
post #12 of 33
What did you end up using?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozster View Post

Is there something wrong with using eac3to to extract video to mkv and audio as wav and preserve all the DTS-MA or TrueHD information? Will that work?
post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozster View Post

Is there something wrong with using eac3to to extract video to mkv and audio as wav and preserve all the DTS-MA or TrueHD information? Will that work?

In theory, I think you can use Eac3to to extract the VC-1 or h264 video stream to "video.whatever" and the DTS-HD MA audio stream to "audio.wav" and then use tsMuxeR to combine them into either a TS or M2TS file -- but, and your mileage may vary -- I only ever get a mono audio track in the file output by tsMuxeR even though, before muxing, tsMuxeR says the audio is LPCM and MediaInfo says the WAV file is multi-channel.

I've also tried Eac3to creating PCM files and used Pcm2Tsmu to make the PCM file readable by tsMuxeR, but get the same "1 -channel" audio within the TS or M2TS file. I also have the same issue if I use a disk's native LPCM track; so it is something to do with LPCM and tsMuxeR, not really with DTS-HD MA to WAV or PCM.

If I take the same Eac3to output files (video.whatver and audio.wav) and use MKVMerge to create an MKV file, I do get multi-channel audio, i.e. LPCM.

Strange stuff for sure... I am probably just missing something simple but cannot figure it out at all. In the interim, I have been always creating, at minimum, an AC3 audio track for all my files as it just seems to work 99% of the time no matter what the source audio is.
post #14 of 33
I dont think there is a way to HD Movie on the PS3 with HD Audio (DTS-HD, TrueHD, FLAC, etc.) (yet at least)
post #15 of 33
Thread Starter 
hey Eric.. when you say mono audio track.. you mean you can hear like only partial audio (one channel) when you view the file, yes?

Here's what's happening to me:

Extracting video is not a problem. Audio is where things go berserk. When I use eac3to to export audio either WAV or FLAC I still get one channel audio, meaning I can hear like music or some partial effects in the scene but not full audio.

Extracting DTS core or AC3 is not a problem. That works but that's not what we are trying to do right.

So I'm looking at possilbe FLAC to WAV decoding because FLAC method from eac3to should properly decode DTS-MA but only make what's needed. If I export to wav, my file is even bigger then the original track when demuxed.

I'm completely losing my mind. I'm seriously thinking about getting Popcorn Hour and completely bypassing PS3 and PC and just using that to stream full audio Blu-ray rips.

So you are saying that if you extract directly MKV and WAV from the m2ts files and then use MKVMerge to combine them, you get a fully working multichannel audio? That could work for me, as eac3to decodes to PCM which is fine as well, just as long as we preserve full audio bitrate and channels.
post #16 of 33
sorry for the stupid question, but where does one get the sonic decoder?
post #17 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davdev View Post

sorry for the stupid question, but where does one get the sonic decoder?

It's tough.. you are better off with ArcSoft DTS Decoder as it supports (should support) 7.1 channels and Sonic only does 5.1


Sonic comes with Cineplex Pack or something like that but I'm unsure whether it comes in it now. The other piece of software is Scenarist or something like that and it has it for sure but is very costly.
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozster View Post

So you are saying that if you extract directly MKV and WAV from the m2ts files and then use MKVMerge to combine them, you get a fully working multichannel audio? That could work for me, as eac3to decodes to PCM which is fine as well, just as long as we preserve full audio bitrate and channels.

OK, after a full evening of testing, I am now more confused than before I started...

Here's what I *think* I remember from all of this.

Source = Cast Away Blu-ray = h264 video, DTS-MA 5.1 Audio 24-bit
  • Eac3to -> video.h264, audio.wav
  • MediaInfo of audio.wav = 6 channels, just what we would expect
  • video.h264 & audio.wav -> tsMuxeR (which recognizes audio as LPCM 5.1) -> movie.m2ts
  • MediaInfo of movie.m2ts = PCM, 1 channel (argh!)
  • Video.h264 & audio.wav -> MKVMerge (which recognizes audio as PCM) -> movie.mkv
  • MediaInfo of movie.mkv = PCM, 6 channels, 24-bit (that's more like it)
Enough of all this ID'ing streams, how do they play?

M2TS File:
  • HTPC, WMP 11 on Vista x32 = great video, only loud static for audio
    • What should the graph of this look like? I get Haali -> Default DirectSound for audio while video flows Haali -> ffdshow Video -> Video Renderer
  • HTPC, VLC = seems to have no clue how to play file, thinks there are two video streams
  • HTPC, TMT .128 = great video, good audio, information shows 2 channels, 16 bit, hmmmm....
  • HTPC, Nero Showtime 3 (from Nero 7 suite) = choppy video, choppy audio, OSD shows PCM 6 channel - so it really is "in there" perhaps but I have no idea why MediaInfo doesn't think so
  • WDTV via HDMI to Yamaha receiver = great video, audio output is 2 channel PCM, receiver applies Dolby Pro Logic to it but only "lights up" FL and FR speaker icons
MKV File:
  • HTPC, WMP 11 on Vista x32 = great video, good audio but cannot tell how many channels are actually playing
  • HTPC, VLC = choppy video, great audio, information shows 6 channels
  • HTPC, TMT .128 = great video, no audio, information shows "Other"
  • HTPC, Nero Showtime 3 (from Nero 7 suite) = cannot open file to play
  • WDTV via HDMI to Yamaha receiver = great video, audio output is 2 channel PCM, receiver applies Dolby Pro Logic to it but only "lights up" FL and FR speaker icons

I also have an HTPC connected to the Yamaha via HDMI (ATI 4850 using Realtek HDMI driver) but cannot remember what the result was when playing the M2TS or MKV file through that Vista x64 box. Will try again tomorrow and update this post. I *think* I only saw 2 channel PCM on the receiver but I also know I did not try VLC on the M2TS file on that box to see what VLC said wrt the audio stream.

So, with all of that, I have no idea what will play what and what will not -- this stuff may lead to some serious drinking... The funny (or is it sad?) thing is I could have played the disk in the BD-30 and watched the entire movie in full, uncompressed LPCM sound in less time than I spent trying to figure this one out - but hey, where's the fun in all of that?
post #19 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwe View Post

The funny (or is it sad?) thing is I could have played the disk in the BD-30 and watched the entire movie in full, uncompressed LPCM sound in less time than I spent trying to figure this one out - but hey, where's the fun in all of that?

Ha ha.. yep.. but the thing is though.. we want to backup our movies and there's nothing nicer then having full HD audio and 1080p24 video in our library and just tap the button and watch whatever without getting up and looking through our libraries of discs.

I'll try a few things tonight and see if I can figure out something more too.
post #20 of 33
How I have had successful results is to use TSMuxer for DTS-HD/MA, LPCM and TSREMUXER for TrueHD (bug in TSMuxer for TrueHD). Select only those audio/video streams you want and remux to a bluray structure. I then create an ISO from this and use VCD to mount the ISO... I have no issues in any player to play this (of course those that play bluray structures)...

After the remux depending on the movie I I can get the movie down to between 16 - 18 gig.. I have done 5 blurays so far.. (VC1, MPEG2, MPEG4, TrueHD, DTS-MA, LPCM) and all variants... No AC3 though as I dont care about this...

I have tried time and again to just use the m2ts file - in pwrdvd I get no audio - no matter what I do.

I have not tried Flac yet.. but If I can save more space and get better compatibility I will try this next..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwe View Post

OK, after a full evening of testing, I am now more confused than before I started...

Here's what I *think* I remember from all of this.

Source = Cast Away Blu-ray = h264 video, DTS-MA 5.1 Audio 24-bit
  • Eac3to -> video.h264, audio.wav
  • MediaInfo of audio.wav = 6 channels, just what we would expect
  • video.h264 & audio.wav -> tsMuxeR (which recognizes audio as LPCM 5.1) -> movie.m2ts
  • MediaInfo of movie.m2ts = PCM, 1 channel (argh!)
  • Video.h264 & audio.wav -> MKVMerge (which recognizes audio as PCM) -> movie.mkv
  • MediaInfo of movie.mkv = PCM, 6 channels, 24-bit (that's more like it)
Enough of all this ID'ing streams, how do they play?

M2TS File:
  • HTPC, WMP 11 on Vista x32 = great video, only loud static for audio
    • What should the graph of this look like? I get Haali -> Default DirectSound for audio while video flows Haali -> ffdshow Video -> Video Renderer
  • HTPC, VLC = seems to have no clue how to play file, thinks there are two video streams
  • HTPC, TMT .128 = great video, good audio, information shows 2 channels, 16 bit, hmmmm....
  • HTPC, Nero Showtime 3 (from Nero 7 suite) = choppy video, choppy audio, OSD shows PCM 6 channel - so it really is "in there" perhaps but I have no idea why MediaInfo doesn't think so
  • WDTV via HDMI to Yamaha receiver = great video, audio output is 2 channel PCM, receiver applies Dolby Pro Logic to it but only "lights up" FL and FR speaker icons
MKV File:
  • HTPC, WMP 11 on Vista x32 = great video, good audio but cannot tell how many channels are actually playing
  • HTPC, VLC = choppy video, great audio, information shows 6 channels
  • HTPC, TMT .128 = great video, no audio, information shows "Other"
  • HTPC, Nero Showtime 3 (from Nero 7 suite) = cannot open file to play
  • WDTV via HDMI to Yamaha receiver = great video, audio output is 2 channel PCM, receiver applies Dolby Pro Logic to it but only "lights up" FL and FR speaker icons

I also have an HTPC connected to the Yamaha via HDMI (ATI 4850 using Realtek HDMI driver) but cannot remember what the result was when playing the M2TS or MKV file through that Vista x64 box. Will try again tomorrow and update this post. I *think* I only saw 2 channel PCM on the receiver but I also know I did not try VLC on the M2TS file on that box to see what VLC said wrt the audio stream.

So, with all of that, I have no idea what will play what and what will not -- this stuff may lead to some serious drinking... The funny (or is it sad?) thing is I could have played the disk in the BD-30 and watched the entire movie in full, uncompressed LPCM sound in less time than I spent trying to figure this one out - but hey, where's the fun in all of that?
post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

How I have had successful results is to use TSMuxer for DTS-HD/MA, LPCM and TSREMUXER for TrueHD (bug in TSMuxer for TrueHD). Select only those audio/video streams you want and remux to a bluray structure. I then create an ISO from this and use VCD to mount the ISO... I have no issues in any player to play this (of course those that play bluray structures)...

Agreed to the above -- similar to what I do for HTPC (TMT .128) and WD TV files for myself. I do usually use Eac3to for the de-muxing just to also be able to create an AC3 track if the source didn't have one to begin with as some of my playback devices don't do DTS. I also use those demuxed streams to create MKV w/ FLAC for HTPC playback, and hopefully the WD TV in a future update. And I take the extracted SUP's and convert to SRT via SupRip if I need them. All depends on what I am trying to accomplish that day.

I think the desired goal in this thread is to figure a way to convert "full-res" (i.e. not just extract the core) TrueHD and/or DTS-HD MA audio streams to something (L)PCM'ish and place in a container that the PS3 can read. If the source already has LPCM (Spiderman 3 for example) - tsMuxeR -> M2TS should work fine. It is the whole THD or DTS-HD -> WAV or PCM where we seem to have problems.
post #22 of 33
eric,

Where are you having problems with THD ->Eac3to->PCM? I have been able to convert THD->PCM with eac3to then use tsmuxer to make a blu-ray. You have to use pcm2tsmu to prepare the pcm file for use by tsmuxer.
post #23 of 33
Your right.. I totally forgot about that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido04 View Post

eric,

Where are you having problems with THD ->Eac3to->PCM? I have been able to convert THD->PCM with eac3to then use tsmuxer to make a blu-ray. You have to use pcm2tsmu to prepare the pcm file for use by tsmuxer.
post #24 of 33
Make sure to keep the bitrates in mind. For the 16 bit thd files you need a "-16" after the eac3to command line, then a "-i 16" after the psm2tsmu command line. 24 bit is default for both.
post #25 of 33
Thread Starter 
God bless you guys.. psm2tsmu made everything work!

Here's what I do:

1. eac3to extract DTS-MA, LPCM or TrueHD to output.pcm and movie to mkv
2. psm2tsmu conversion from input.pcm to output.pcm
3. TSmuxer to combine both like this and I get LPCM version of full 1080p footage into .m2ts file
4. Re-add this new file to TSMuxer to see if everything looks right and the new file shows all channels as LPCM. A OK!
4. Use PS3 Media Server 1.02.1 to stream to PS3 the m2ts file and I'm getting PIECE OF HEAVEN.

As a note though, I didn't manage to playback the video properly on a PC. Only if streamed through PS3 Media Server to PS3 that's connected via HDMI to my Denon 2809ci.

Sound and picture is beautiful and instead of heaving 50gb disc, the size is now 36gb.

I'm thinking to using TSMuxer to downsample video bitrate to 20mbps as I don't really see difference on some other movies encoded at 20mbps and the ones peaking at 50. This would probably save a lot of space too.

Again, god bless you guys, I had no clue about psm2tsmu.

Now all i need is similar solution as PS3 Media Server that works with Xbox 360 and transcodes the same movie ready for Xbox 360 and I'm in heaven. Digital library here I come!
post #26 of 33
dumb question here....but it seems like the OP is jumping through unnecessary hoops.

1) get AnyDVD-HD up and running.
2) using windows explorer, (or BDinfo) find the .m2ts file with the main movie on it.
3) use this m2ts file (or playlist file from BDInfo) as input to tsmuser
4) select video/audio tracks you want to keep.
5) set output to m2ts muxing and hit GO

The output should be an m2ts file that should play with the DTS-MA track all set to go.

My point is mainly that eac3to should not be needed/involved in the process.
post #27 of 33
If you had the means to play the DTS-MA to the fullest that would be the way to go. However, the options that most have now do not allow for bitstream or full decoding(only dts core). There are many videocards/motherboards that allow for full transport of LPCM(although I might be mistaken).
post #28 of 33
This is the approach I take.. but for some reason at least in PwerDVD I dont get any audio just remuxing to m2ts.. i have to create a bluray structure to get it to work..

In either case by going from HD audio and re-encoded to PCM will keep the bit rate and frequency the same... Just remuxing (not re-encoding) will keep the HD Audio track intact and will force the player to down sample due to PAP..

What I would like to see is a 1 on 1 comparison of sound quality of the native HD audio stream down sampled (PCM as most players can not bitstream) using remux to m2ts and the PCM stream from the re-encoded version using eac3to then remuxed to m2ts

The Net Net.. eac3to re-encodes where TSMuxer remuxs (at least for audio; not sure about video)....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post

dumb question here....but it seems like the OP is jumping through unnecessary hoops.

1) get AnyDVD-HD up and running.
2) using windows explorer, (or BDinfo) find the .m2ts file with the main movie on it.
3) use this m2ts file (or playlist file from BDInfo) as input to tsmuser
4) select video/audio tracks you want to keep.
5) set output to m2ts muxing and hit GO

The output should be an m2ts file that should play with the DTS-MA track all set to go.

My point is mainly that eac3to should not be needed/involved in the process.
post #29 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post

dumb question here....but it seems like the OP is jumping through unnecessary hoops.

1) get AnyDVD-HD up and running.
2) using windows explorer, (or BDinfo) find the .m2ts file with the main movie on it.
3) use this m2ts file (or playlist file from BDInfo) as input to tsmuser
4) select video/audio tracks you want to keep.
5) set output to m2ts muxing and hit GO

The output should be an m2ts file that should play with the DTS-MA track all set to go.

My point is mainly that eac3to should not be needed/involved in the process.

it doesn't work. You use TSmuxer and try to remux the m2ts file and you get no sound.

eac3to is also needed for seamless branching so you can see what mpls file to use.

eac3to also extracts and decodes an appropriate streams in a variety of ways and also can extract audio into lossless FLAC that also saves space and sometimes significantly.

I have tried using just TSmuxer and you get bad audio when the new m2ts file is muxed in.

Eac3to also allows better manipulation with extracting AC3 or DTS core along many things.
post #30 of 33
I take it back.. my flow doesn't work and stanglx points out.. you must set the output to be BluRay instead of m2ts. Sorry about that. I'm using a Popcorn Hour A-110 device now and it handles things great.

decoding the TrueHD and DTS-MA to LPCM is a good (read ONLY) way to get native bit depth and resolution on the audio. I didn't think about that point (since I use PCH now).

tsMuxer handles playlist files just fine...maybe you have an older version.

tsReMuxer DOESN't handle palylist files and it's a pain.
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