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Are DVD players about to disappear?

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
VCR players are essentially no longer available except for those combined with DVD players, and my readings recently, along with visits to Best Buy, give me the impression that SD DVD players will also soon be gone, or at least phased out, sooner than I would have expected - to be replaced by Blu-Ray players, of course. And how long then before DVD titles will also disappear as we go Blu only? That is all well and good as long as BD titles are as cheap as DVD, meaning most catalog titles under $10; but I have a feeling that is not going to be the case. Regardless, it appears that recession be damned, we are all going to be forced to convert to Blu-Ray whether we want to or not!
post #2 of 33
Ummm...no. Not at all. Just go to any store and you'll find a plethora of DVD players and only a handful of Blu-Ray players and the DVD players always sell more units.
post #3 of 33
I hope not anytime soon since DVD still has a significant cost advantage.
post #4 of 33
Watching SD DVDs on my upconverted player and HDTV, i really don't know how the pic can get much better. I'm sure it is but really, how much better does it need to be. I'm perfectly happy with my setup and Blue ray is way down the line for me as a purchase.
post #5 of 33
DVD was introduced in 1996 (in Japan, elsewhere the next year.) Standalone VCRs lasted at least a decade after, and the combos still exist. VHS tapes are still available, although studio support largely ended in 2006.

Blu-Ray is a bit different as the players can also play DVDs (unlike non-combo DVD players and VHS tapes.) I imagine that Blu-Ray machines might occupy a "premium DVD player" niche while lower priced DVD players stick around. If by some miracle the BRD players plunge in price to DVD player levels (at all pricepoints), that might phase out all but the very cheapest DVD players and the very best DVD upscalers.

I think the bigger question is how long will DVDs themselves be around, which I think will be at least a decade, since Blu-Ray's title catalog is nowhere near the size of DVD's.

What might tank both formats is direct digital downloading (think one of those Netflix boxes on steriods.)
post #6 of 33
I have to agree with ohmytvc15.my picture with my up converter is pretty darn good. I have a blu player, but find myself not even watching it. Tonight as a matter of fact, I tried pirates, the black pearl and found the up converter just as good as the blu ray if not a little better.Now don't come down on me about calibrations and such, this was just my experience.Both dvd players going through my marantz through hdmi.Also I watched what seemed like 5 minutes on the up converter before the blu even loaded.
post #7 of 33
Hey all,

There is no reason to go to Blu Ray as far as I am concerned. I just had my old DVD player break down so it was time to replace it. I thought about BR two years ago when the HD and BR fight was strong. I did not even give BR a thought. All of my music DVDs are of an older nature so an upconverter would be enough. Well did I get a suprise, I purchased a NAD T515 DVD player. I could not be more impressed with the picture and audio from the dvds after the death of my Pannny A310 (1st gen). I auditioned the Cambridge Audio 540 dvd player before deciding that the NAD was better. I had my 20yr old son with me to confirm my findings.


B
post #8 of 33
I'm definitely in the "DVD is good enough for me" camp as well. Playing a well mastered DVD on my Panny plasma is a very rewarding experience. Blu-Ray many times just looks unnatural to my eyes. DVD looks closer to what a projected film actually looks like. Blu-Ray's tend to look unnaturally sharp and overproduced colors. Given how popular DVD is right now and how small Blu-Ray's market share is, DVD will be around for a very very long time. Putting it this way - there's like 150 million DVD players in households throughout the US (not counting PS2's, XBOX's, and other devices) and there's 10 million BD players...and about 6 million of those are PS3's, so in actuality, there's only about 4 million dedicated BD machines out there. That's an incredibly small percentage of the market, which is still totally dominated by DVD. I don't see that changing anytime soon. BD has gained a little momentum lately, but for the vast majority of consumers, DVD is just fine and they see no reason to upgrade. This, more than anything will keep DVD around for the long haul.
post #9 of 33
W/ small screens (under 70") DVD seems to be good enough (I have a 50" in my den and DVD looks great). But when the screen size grows to 100" and beyond (mine is 130" in my Home Theater) - Blu-ray is absolutely a necessity. At those larger sizes - 480 lines simply doesn't cut it.
post #10 of 33
If/when BD players get cheap enough, there will be no need for DVD-only players.

larry
post #11 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

If/when BD players get cheap enough, there will be no need for DVD-only players.

larry

And that is my point, as BD players drop to the $150 level, or even the $99 level by next Christmas, I suspect many CE companies will just abandon SD DVD players altogether. Tobhiba will be the exception I suppose, but how long after Toshiba goes Blu do you think it will be before they join the "drop-DVD" movement? It would not surprise me if the studios subsidized or "encouraged" CE companies in that decision. There is no doubt in my mind that Hollywood would love to drop DVD altogether and force us all to buy their far more profitable BD discs. Has anyone else noticed that the MSRP price of DVD new releases has increased noticeably in the past year? New titles used to debut at $14.95 to $16.95 but now typically list at $19.95 or even $22.95 and up. Presumably this is intended to reduce the price gap between DVD and Blu-Ray releases (which have tended down in recent months) and encourage all those "DVD is good enough" buyers to decide that a few dollars more for higher PQ is not such a big leap. OTOH, older catalog DVD titles go on sale for $4.99-$5.99 regularly, but perhaps that just to clear out inventory before going BD only?
post #12 of 33
I feel it will be awhile until the death of the DVD disc, and as stated above, for the average user, an upconverting player will be very nice. However, all things considered, BluRay is a step above, and with the cost of players coming down to decent levels, the 'smarts' of the companies to also make them DVD upconverters, there's very little reason to not pick one up. I'm waiting for Oppo to introduce their player, a truly universal format one, and then I'll jump on that. I've already started to collect BD discs with the feel that they are worth the added cost.
post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

Are DVD players about to disappear?

VCR players are essentially no longer available except for those combined with DVD players, and my readings recently, along with visits to Best Buy, give me the impression that SD DVD players will also soon be gone, or at least phased out, sooner than I would have expected - to be replaced by Blu-Ray players, of course. And how long then before DVD titles will also disappear as we go Blu only? That is all well and good as long as BD titles are as cheap as DVD, meaning most catalog titles under $10; but I have a feeling that is not going to be the case. Regardless, it appears that recession be damned, we are all going to be forced to convert to Blu-Ray whether we want to or not!

IMO, it will be a looooong time before DVD gets to where VHS is now at.

You are playing devil's advocate with this, right???

If yes, why?

IMO, Blu-ray isn't going to cut it, and will die a long slow niche death.

Those that fail to read/understand history, are doomed to repeat it. (i.e. why Beta died)

Cheers
post #14 of 33
Quote:


IMO, Blu-ray isn't going to cut it, and will die a long slow niche death.

Those that fail to read/understand history, are doomed to repeat it. (i.e. why Beta died)

The 2nd sentence more or less contradicts the first.

The VHS->DVD transition had less hurdles than DVD->BD. Time will tell.

larry
post #15 of 33
I just don't see the diffents on my brothers HDTV..I think his is 42"..DVD movies play just fine on it
post #16 of 33
It's likely that DVD players will start to become a niche occupied by "low end" and house electronics brands as BD player prices continue to fall.

Thus you'll still be able to buy that Coby or Insignia DVD player, but if you want something from Sony or Panasonic within a few years it will likely be a BD player.

For those who can't see the difference you either need a new display, you're sitting too far away, or need a visit to an optometrist.

Either that or you've connected the BD player using S-Video or have it set to output 480i as the difference is not subtle…
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

What might tank both formats is direct digital downloading (think one of those Netflix boxes on steriods.)

No way I would consider a download to be a substitute for something real in a box that I can hold in my hand.

I like the pretty pictures on the DVD boxes TOO much! And how do I show off my collection of downloaded movies?

When I download music and movies I never really feel like I actually OWN it.
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrnXnham View Post

When I download music and movies I never really feel like I actually OWN it.

I feel the same way, but the up and coming young whippersnappers don't. They think of their music and movies in terms of gigs, not individual discs or anything.

Seriously, they've done studies, and the new consumers are fully ready to do a digital download that they don't have to go to the store or wait for in the mail to get. It's just for movies it's not quite there yet.
post #19 of 33
I think downloading is going to become less attractive as more and more ISPs impose data transfer caps on their services.
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

For those who can't see the difference you either need a new display, you're sitting too far away, or need a visit to an optometrist.

I don't think it's that we can't see the difference. I certainly can. It's just that the difference isn't that big a deal and many times, the look of many Blu-Ray films are simply unnatural to my eyes.

Also, someone earlier mentioned that DVD titles have gone up. I'm not seeing that. Most new titles are $13.99-$16.99 for the first five days. And certainly catalog releases are so cheap it's practically stealing most of the time.
post #21 of 33
I have a collection of thirty SACDs, as well as a lot of Region 2 DVDs. I would get the new Oppo, but because of Blu-ray Disc Association regulations, no BD player sold in the US will have a hidden region hack for HD or SD playback ...Bummer! Therefore, the only thing that would convince me to go BD would be if about thirty or more of the titles in my existing collection become available on BD. Sound like a good plan to you?
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

I think downloading is going to become less attractive as more and more ISPs impose data transfer caps on their services.

No doubt ISPs will try to impose bandwidth limits (except of course on their own video on-demand services.) AT&T especially is moving in the direction of controlling content on their pipes in favor of their own interests.

I think one day there will be a legal showdown at the Supreme Court that will decide the issue.
post #23 of 33
My big worry is about the degradation of DVD media over time. They've shown not to deteriorate over time (and can get damaged easily to handling). I converted all of the old VHS tapes (mostly home videos and some old TV shows) to DVD a couple of years ago. Now I am wondering if I should convert record these DVD's onto hard disk which I keep a back up of. Is anyone else worried about this too?

The only problem is how to back up, in HD format, the HD recordings that I want to keep that are stored on my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR. Any ideas?
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

Blu-Ray many times just looks unnatural to my eyes. DVD looks closer to what a projected film actually looks like. Blu-Ray's tend to look unnaturally sharp and overproduced colors.

This is a curious statement to me. Are you viewing on a 1080p display? I often hear this from 720p owners. Considering 35mm film is estimated to be around 4K, Blu-ray about 2K, and DVD at 720 lines, I'm not sure how or why BD looks less film-like to you. With Blu-ray at 1080p, you can actually see film grain...unlike DVD where you're just seeing MPEG-2 compression grain usually. In addition, BDs have far less edge enhancement and DNR than DVDs as a general rule. Blu-ray also has twice the chroma resolution of DVD which also comes closer to film. I have an ISF calibrated 60" SXRD (A3000) and at 1080p/24 from 8 feet back, there is absolutely NO comparison between BD and SD most of the time...even using superior deinterlacing and scaling on DVD such as ABT/VRS.

Also, keep this in mind. You need to be sitting close enough to your display to resolve 1080p (or 720p for that matter).

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
post #25 of 33
BD is far superior technically, but in a way it reminds me of my switch from LP to CD.

Once the novelty of the CD wore off, I didn't find that it actually changed the experience of music listening that much. In other words, I enjoyed listening to music on CD about the same as I enjoyed listening on LP.

I feel the same way about BD. It's a small treat when I can get one, but it's not night and day compared to DVD and I find that the material matters much more than whether it's presented on DVD or BD.
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

This is a curious statement to me. Are you viewing on a 1080p display? I often hear this from 720p owners. Considering 35mm film is estimated to be around 4K, Blu-ray about 2K, and DVD at 720 lines, I'm not sure how or why BD looks less film-like to you. With Blu-ray at 1080p, you can actually see film grain...unlike DVD where you're just seeing MPEG-2 compression grain usually. In addition, BDs have far less edge enhancement and DNR than DVDs as a general rule. Blu-ray also has twice the chroma resolution of DVD which also comes closer to film. I have an ISF calibrated 60" SXRD (A3000) and at 1080p/24 from 8 feet back, there is absolutely NO comparison between BD and SD most of the time...even using superior deinterlacing and scaling on DVD such as ABT/VRS.

Also, keep this in mind. You need to be sitting close enough to your display to resolve 1080p (or 720p for that matter).

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

A good example would be the new Bond releases. From Russia with Love - everything is overly sharp to the point where backgrounds and foregrounds are both in focus and you're able to see things that weren't intended. It doesn't look like film. There's little or no grain and the image looks artificial. This is what I've found to be true on a lot of Blu-Ray's. Also, compared to a well mastered DVD upconverted and sitting at a normal viewing distance of say about 8 feet, it's hard to tell the difference for the most part. Yes, Blu-Ray's a little sharper and more detailed (to a fault at times), but that's about it.
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

A good example would be the new Bond releases. From Russia with Love - everything is overly sharp to the point where backgrounds and foregrounds are both in focus and you're able to see things that weren't intended. It doesn't look like film. There's little or no grain and the image looks artificial. This is what I've found to be true on a lot of Blu-Ray's. Also, compared to a well mastered DVD upconverted and sitting at a normal viewing distance of say about 8 feet, it's hard to tell the difference for the most part. Yes, Blu-Ray's a little sharper and more detailed (to a fault at times), but that's about it.

First you say Blu-ray is too sharp, then you say it's only a little more detailed. As I said before, film has a lot more detail than Blu-ray, therefore with Blu-ray you're still not seeing "everything" meant to be seen....but it's sure a lot more than DVD.

If you feel DVD looks overall better than Blu-ray, then that's how you feel. I haven't see "From Russia...," however, here's some screenshots of Dr. No. The BD has actual film grain where as the DVDs have compression artifacts, far less detail, and more dull colors. I really don't see how anyone being intellectually honest can say the DVD shots look better.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=james+bond
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by eonibm View Post

My big worry is about the degradation of DVD media over time. They've shown not to deteriorate over time (and can get damaged easily to handling). I converted all of the old VHS tapes (mostly home videos and some old TV shows) to DVD a couple of years ago. Now I am wondering if I should convert record these DVD's onto hard disk which I keep a back up of. Is anyone else worried about this too?

Yes, I am. Burnable media is not forever. (But few things are). I have backed up a lot of material to hard disc, which of course is also not infallible, but it gives me a chance at saving some things if the discs go bad.

-Bill
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

First you say Blu-ray is too sharp, then you say it's only a little more detailed. As I said before, film has a lot more detail than Blu-ray, therefore with Blu-ray you're still not seeing "everything" meant to be seen....but it's sure a lot more than DVD.

Yes, I know that film has more detail than a 1080p Blu-Ray, but just because Blu-Ray is closer in resolution doesn't mean that it's better than DVD, it just means you're seeing a slightly sharper image with a little more detail and in some cases, the detail is overdone to the point where the movie looks unnatural. When I look at a 35mm film projected and Blu-Ray, I don't feel that the Blu-Ray replicates the look of film accurately. I feel that DVD is the best compromise between an accurate reproduction of film, while not looking overdone and unnatural like Blu-Ray.

Quote:
If you feel DVD looks overall better than Blu-ray, then that's how you feel. I haven't see "From Russia...," however, here's some screenshots of Dr. No. The BD has actual film grain where as the DVDs have compression artifacts, far less detail, and more dull colors. I really don't see how anyone being intellectually honest can say the DVD shots look better.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=james+bond

The color timing on the Blu-Ray looks altered and unnatural compared to the DVD. I did a back and forth between FRWL Ultimate Edition DVD and the Blu-Ray and I found that the Blu-Ray looked like a video game almost and the DVD looked like film, specifically a film shot in the early 60's cleaned up meticulously.
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

When I look at a 35mm film projected and Blu-Ray, I don't feel that the Blu-Ray replicates the look of film accurately. I feel that DVD is the best compromise between an accurate reproduction of film, while not looking overdone and unnatural like Blu-Ray.

I have wondered about that myself. I am still getting used to the Blu-ray look and would probably benefit from a better display than I am using, but I read someone's theory here at AVSForum which I've stolen and rewritten:

I think the traditional "video" look is caused by sharpness (or "edginess") + reduced grayscale depth. Film is not so edgy and is deeper.

Moving from DVD to Blu-Ray, we have more resolution which we perceive as sharpness, but grayscale depth has not improved. There is a mismatch which I perceive as a "video" look. There is probably no way around that other than to get used to it, or by applying artificial softening with a sharpness control.

Excessive edge enhancement on DVD had a distinctive look. Halos on dark objects obviously, but also a shiny look to faces, caused by ringing on skin pores and whiskers. I found this really distracting on LEON, for example.

Excessive sharpness on Blu-Ray looks different. Skin pores look like moon craters and chin whiskers like tree stumps. Honestly, neither life nor film look like that to me.

-Bill
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