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Best screen material with acoustic transparency

post #1 of 86
1/16/09 at 6:53am
Thread Starter 
Hi there
Anybody got a good advice for a 1.3 gain acoustic transperant screen material for a DIY 16:9 110" screen. I DONT want perforated screenmateriel (got it now, and with fullHD it is so easy to see the holes)it need to be weawed.
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post #2 of 86
1/18/09 at 8:06am
I am currently using the Dazian AT material at 106" with an AE900 and it is a bit dim for my tastes. I would like to find a material also that is about 1.3 gain.

Can someone please chime in if you know of better materials?
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post #3 of 86
1/18/09 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I am currently using the Dazian AT material at 106" with an AE900 and it is a bit dim for my tastes. I would like to find a material also that is about 1.3 gain.

Can someone please chime in if you know of better materials?

As I have seen nobody produce higher gains than 1.1 on AT screens. SMX has 1.1 in weawen materiel. Other "only" got 1.0. I am looking for best quality compared to price. I dont have 1000$ of dollars to get the no. 1 screen.
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post #4 of 86
1/18/09 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I am currently using the Dazian AT material at 106" with an AE900 and it is a bit dim for my tastes. I would like to find a material also that is about 1.3 gain.

Can someone please chime in if you know of better materials?

I've also been using a Dazian AT screen for four years now. I've always wondered about SMX. I recently ordered a screen from a guy who builds them on ebay. It is not AT but my speakers sit to the side and below my screen.
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post #5 of 86
1/22/09 at 7:41pm
Phifer Shearweave 4500. It is a woven material with 5% openess and a 1.16 gain. This is the original SMX material. Here is a link to an online seller.

http://www.interiormall.com/cat/nsam...=113044&t=2182
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post #6 of 86
1/22/09 at 11:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

phifer shearweave 4500. It is a woven material with 5% openess and a 1.16 gain. This is the original smx material. Here is a link to an online seller.

http://www.interiormall.com/cat/nsam...=113044&t=2182

outstanding thx
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post #7 of 86
1/24/09 at 6:01am
I'm building one my self using same material.
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post #8 of 86
1/24/09 at 6:45am
Thread Starter 
This allmost to good to be true... SMX materiel at 30$/ yard??? I guess that a SMX screen is 10000's off dollars... but ok a curved 200" smx screen is allmost that kind of money woth... it looks like it can't be made better at ALL.. i will make a copycopy in wood for 500$ dollars or less
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post #9 of 86
1/24/09 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

Phifer Shearweave 4500. It is a woven material with 5% openess and a 1.16 gain. This is the original SMX material. Here is a link to an online seller.

http://www.interiormall.com/cat/nsam...=113044&t=2182

Wow, that's some deal. I wish I had known about this three weeks ago. I could have just replaced the Dazian AT fabric on my current frame.
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post #10 of 86
1/24/09 at 1:27pm
I would assume then that this must be tilted to avoid moire. Is this correct?
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post #11 of 86
1/24/09 at 6:40pm
Don't get your hopes up, SW4500 is definitely not SmX material. There is allot of misleading posts here on AVS from individuals that look at two weaves and think they are the same. I purchased SW-4500 for my screen with high hopes and it had horrible moire issues no matter how much I rotated it. It also reduced ANSI contrast. The high frequency in my audio also dropped when I placed my speakers behind it. I see other people in other threads here having moire issues with it as well.


The SmX has a tighter less discernible weave with no moire issues at all. The SmX surface is much smoother in comparison plus it is truly audio transparent. I took a close up picture of both the SmX and SW-4500 side by side. See the apparent difference?

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post #12 of 86
1/25/09 at 2:15am
Thread Starter 
Now I see, and ofcourse there is a difference...i knew it..;-) Lets turn it around how about a comparision at Dazian AT vs SW-4500????
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post #13 of 86
1/25/09 at 7:33am
Hmm, I can definitely see a difference. I was going to ask the question about the direction it was to be turned, but that was answered by MarkP. My Dazian AT screen has been pretty good for over 4yrs but it's time for an upgrade/update (it has two small wrinkles). My speakers are behind the screen wall but not behind the screen. The left and right speakers are on the sides and the center is below the screen. The screen wall is simply speaker cloth so I don't think I really even need AT. I'm going to retire our BenQ PE 7800 in March and get a BenQ PE 5000 or if I go LCD, a Panny AE3000. I'm going to give the 16:1 screen from shoppingdeals on ebay a chance. It should be here next week. From what I've heard and seen, the frame is excellent. I thought I could buy some of this SW-4500 material if I didn't like his screen material and I still may.
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post #14 of 86
1/25/09 at 11:39am
I recieved a couple of samples from Seymour AV yesterday. On the left on the first picture is the original Center Stage material. On the right is their new Center Stage XD. I compared these materials to my current Dazian AT material which is in the second pic. Both of the Seymour AV materials are brighter than the Dazian. The XD has a tighter weave than the standard Center Stage and is slightly brighter and seems to have better contrast. I am currently only comparing these small samples to my Dazian but they make my current screen look rather washed out and very dim. These were shot in different lights so the white balance is not entirely comparable.

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post #15 of 86
1/27/09 at 3:43pm
I just traded emails with Chris Seymour and I have to say I appreciate the response and effort he makes.

I tried to contact SMX about the material they use and oddly I did not recieve a response. I am sure they are busy as everyone is very interested in the AT screen setup.

Based on the pictures provided it appears the new Seymour XD has a weave that is very tight and may eliminate the Moire effect.
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post #16 of 86
1/28/09 at 11:33am
In the past week I have sent several emails to Chris and SMX as well. With Chris I typically get a response within an hour or two. With SMX I get their default auto reply email but no actual person for several days. I actually had to send SMX another email telling them I had no response in order for them to respond.

I would still like to compare the SMX material to the Seymour AV material but at this point Chris definitely has my business due to quick response and being able to answer any questions very promptly and professionally.
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post #17 of 86
1/29/09 at 11:56am
The 4500 is where it all started. It's what SMX was originally and what Center Stage (I believe) was originally. It was touted as the best DIY AT screen by pretty much everyone.

Both companies have since differentiated themselves from 4500 for what I can only imagine is for marketing, legal and slight performance reasons. Can't really make a viable business by slapping a new name on an existing product (well you could but it makes much more sense to do what they did).

I'd say straight-up 4500 is great, great DIY material for an AT screen. Or Seymore (spelling?) sells his material directly for the diy'ers as well (which is GREAT of him). SMX really has gone the high-end product path and moved away from the DIY roots that spawed his business.
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post #18 of 86
1/29/09 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKEW View Post

I just traded emails with Chris Seymour and I have to say I appreciate the response and effort he makes.

I tried to contact SMX about the material they use and oddly I did not recieve a response. I am sure they are busy as everyone is very interested in the AT screen setup.

Based on the pictures provided it appears the new Seymour XD has a weave that is very tight and may eliminate the Moire effect.

Same experience for me too...
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post #19 of 86
2/1/09 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I would assume then that this must be tilted to avoid moire. Is this correct?


It depends on the projector and display technology. I have a JVC lcos projector and the sheerweave material does not need to be rotated, but it does with a DLP projector. I believe it has something to do with the pixel fill factor between the different display technologies.
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post #20 of 86
2/1/09 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark P View Post

Don't get your hopes up, SW4500 is definitely not SmX material. There is allot of misleading posts here on AVS from individuals that look at two weaves and think they are the same. I purchased SW-4500 for my screen with high hopes and it had horrible moire issues no matter how much I rotated it. It also reduced ANSI contrast. The high frequency in my audio also dropped when I placed my speakers behind it. I see other people in other threads here having moire issues with it as well.


The SmX has a tighter less discernible weave with no moire issues at all. The SmX surface is much smoother in comparison plus it is truly audio transparent. I took a close up picture of both the SmX and SW-4500 side by side. See the apparent difference?

SMX no longer uses the Sheerweave material, but it was the original material used by Ruben. In his home theater build thread it was mentioned frequently, but all references to the Sheerweave material have since been deleted.

The SMX screen material has a 5% openess to the 10% of the Sheerweave material and so has a tighter weave.
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post #21 of 86
2/2/09 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

SMX no longer uses the Sheerweave material, but it was the original material used by Ruben. In his home theater build thread it was mentioned frequently, but all references to the Sheerweave material have since been deleted.

The SMX screen material has a 5% openess to the 10% of the Sheerweave material and so has a tighter weave.

Shearweave 10% openess? I dont think so........from memory which may be a little senile, I remember shearweave only being 5%, and substaintially thicker and more of an audio issue because of both those factors. I have some Shearweave and the pattern is noticeable at 8', someone in these forums could see it at 12' or more with or without projecting on it. I remember the shearweave being better than any alternative back when Ruben was building his theater and testing. Look what our other options were for audio screens back in those days, Heck......I waited for several more years until it was all hashed out and the SmX screen that was delivered to me a couple weeks ago was a really, really nice suprise in its overall appearance even within a few feet. It has the Pro look I was after, It doesnt look like Shade material as much as the 4500 did.

The only way to describe it is, SW 4500 looks like Vinyl shade cloth and SmX looks like an actual movie screen, theres a noticeable difference and Im really glad Ruben stepped up to the plate and found something better, I sent my huge chunk of 4500 ( enough for 15'screen) off to a CRT HT meet a couple years ago knowing there had to be better.
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post #22 of 86
2/2/09 at 7:31pm
Quote:


Shearweave 10% openess? I dont think so........from memory which may be a little senile, I remember shearweave only being 5%,

Yes you're right, the Sheerweave is 5% and I knew that, so I don't know why I typed that. I even wrote that in my post #5 above. I think I'm the one going senile.

Quote:


I have some Shearweave and the pattern is noticeable at 8', someone in these forums could see it at 12' or more with or without projecting on it.

I sit about 10' feet from my screen and I can't notice the weave at all. I don't pick up on the weave until I'm within about 5' to 6' of the screen (even on bright scenes). The guy who can make out the weave at 12' must have the eyes of an eagle.

Quote:


I waited for several more years until it was all hashed out and the SmX screen that was delivered to me a couple weeks ago was a really, really nice suprise in its overall appearance even within a few feet. It has the Pro look I was after, It doesnt look like Shade material as much as the 4500 did.

I've never viewed an SMX screen, but I'm sure they are very nice. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to get hold of a sample because I will probably go with an SMX screen when I get started on my new theater in my new house next year.

The main point of this thread though, is that the OP is looking for a screen material for a DIY screen. SMX doesn't sell their screen material seperately, so the virtues of SMX screen material is a moot point. The OP is looking for a woven AT material for DIY applications, and the Sheerweave is probably his best option in this regard.

BTW, nice theater!
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post #23 of 86
2/3/09 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

The OP is looking for a woven AT material for DIY applications, and the Sheerweave is probably his best option in this regard.

BTW, nice theater!


Seymore is worth noting again as they do sell their "enhanced" material (for lack of a better term) for the DIY crowd. What those enhancements are and how it compares I have no idea but worth noting none the less. I think they have comparisons with graphs on their webpage though.
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post #24 of 86
2/3/09 at 7:59am
In post 14 of this thread I posted pics of both of Seymour screen materials. The newer XD looks extremely promising. That is probably what I will buy when it becomes available this Summer.
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post #25 of 86
2/3/09 at 8:37am
Mark P, there is no doubt that the SMX material is now a different weave. I have been following the development of SMX for quite a few years and from what I recall there was some discussion on the weave being set up to have a 7 percent openess for better audio transparency. However, I do believe you still have to tilt the SMX material to eliminate moire issues which may occur if you dont.

Also in your picture above the SMX material is tilted where as the Phifer material is not. Even tsloms pic which has a slight angle shows a difference from you pic (I know different camera, settings and environment). Would it be possible for you to post a picture of both materials at the same angle? This would help to best see the actual differences of the material and make it a more fair comparison.

BTW Mark, Big fan of your of setup and build, so dont take this the wrong way...

Tsloms I thought the xd material was available now? At least in the 63" width, but it does appear to be very promising. The XD and the 4500 are one of the best options right now for the DIY crowd.

I have 20/20 vision so when I first set up my screen, if I looked for the weave pattern from 9' I can slightly make it out during very bright scenes. Having my screen set up for a few months now it's something which is not really noticeable during regular viewing. Nothing but big screen goodness for a very low cost.
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post #26 of 86
2/3/09 at 8:58am
I am new to the AT screen arena - so to get the best possible AT Screen it's either SMX or Stewart? - and the best DIY is the Center Stage XD? How does the XD compare -anyone seen/heard both?
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post #27 of 86
2/3/09 at 9:27am
Hey oman321,
The XD material is available in the 63" width. However, I would like to redo my 106" screen and want the new screen to be set at a decent angle so I will probable hold out for a wider width. It looks to be much brighter and more detailed than my current Dazian AT screen. Ever since I last redid my current screen I have never been pleased with the Dazian. It has a very washed out and dull image.
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post #28 of 86
2/3/09 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Mark P, there is no doubt that the SMX material is now a different weave. I have been following the development of SMX for quite a few years and from what I recall there was some discussion on the weave being set up to have a 7 percent openess for better audio transparency. However, I do believe you still have to tilt the SMX material to eliminate moire issues which may occur if you dont.

Also in your picture above the SMX material is tilted where as the Phifer material is not. Even tsloms pic which has a slight angle shows a difference from you pic (I know different camera, settings and environment). Would it be possible for you to post a picture of both materials at the same angle? This would help to best see the actual differences of the material and make it a more fair comparison.

BTW Mark, Big fan of your of setup and build, so dont take this the wrong way...

Tsloms I thought the xd material was available now? At least in the 63" width, but it does appear to be very promising. The XD and the 4500 are one of the best options right now for the DIY crowd.

I have 20/20 vision so when I first set up my screen, if I looked for the weave pattern from 9' I can slightly make it out during very bright scenes. Having my screen set up for a few months now it's something which is not really noticeable during regular viewing. Nothing but big screen goodness for a very low cost.

Actually I think the SmX is on an angle to begin with ( probably the reason its moire proof) I barely turned the SmX on an angle when I installed it in the frame and unfortunately threw away all my scraps but I may have put it on a 10 degree tilt ( if that) so I have no way to know its real orientation. I'm guessing Ruben could chime in here or on the SmX thread?

I guess what Im trying to say is Im pretty sure they have their material designed on an angle to begin with for moire proofing a rather large screen, If memory serves me right you can make a crazy huge screen with the SmX because it has over a 100" wideness.
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post #29 of 86
2/3/09 at 11:46am
Hmmm... never knew that to be the case but I cant say that for sure. All the installs, the online manual and video that I have seen talk about giving the material a 15 degree tilt. As of late though I have not looked at anything specific so the case may very well be that the SMX weave is fabricated at an angle which would certainly allow for a much larger screen with the same amount of material.

If anyone has any SMX scraps I would love to put it up against my screen material for a comparison.
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post #30 of 86
2/3/09 at 1:23pm
I just got my 4500 and CenterStage XD samples today and I have to say I am pretty impressed with the Center Stage XD so far. I still have to hit it with a projector but in comparision to the 4500 is seems nicer.
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