The Sony HDR-XR500V and XR520V Owners thread - Page 3

Does you your Mac Pro run Linux with the KDE desktop?

Gluten for punishment that I am, I dragged the raw Sony HDR-XR500V mts clip over to my "sandbox PC" which is running openSUSE-11.1 on an even older desktop (9 years old) 32-bit athlon-1100+ with 1GB of RAM and an old nVidia mx440 graphics.

First I tried to play the raw .mts file with the athlon-1100 (using the application ffplay). Linux ffplay could play the raw format, but it was slow and stuttered, as did the audio stutter. Not nice.

Next, on the athlon-1100, I flashed up openSUSE Linux kdenlive and performed the same operation with kdenlive (import the file, clip off the same portion and render it). It worked no problem. But it was SLOW to render. That very short clip took an excruciating 6 minutes to render to an xvid format. I think my 9-year old desktop athlon-1100 PC won't be taking on any editing duties any time soon. ...

I'm also unclear how many of such mts clips kdenlive running on an athlon-1100 with only 1GB of RAM could handle, before it loses stability. But a short clip works ok (albeit SLOW).

Anyway, I was able to play the resulting xvid very smoothly with good audio. So after the rendering process, everything is fine.

On my HDR-HC3 this was buried (literally) under Menu (turn menus on) | Menu (go to "full" menu) | Camera Settings and then near the bottom of the list.

OK, I received my HDR-R520V today, and I've been playing with it and reading manuals for about an hour.

The GPS function is impressive, but I'm a little concerned about mention in the (separate) GPS manual that you cannot use Map Index on photos recorded on the Memory Stick. Does this mean that you _can_ use it on video recorded on the MS (which I never do, but inquiring minds want to know)? More importantly, does this mean that the geotag info is not _recorded_ with photos stored on the MS? My normal setup is video -> hard drive and stills -> Memory Stick - if MS stills don't get geotagged, I'm going to have to re-think that. I guess I'll have to experiment to find out what it's really doing.

I don't see anything definitive in the manuals about what recording quality Easy Mode uses, other than a passing reference to "nearly all menu settings" being set to default, and "some" menu settings retaining the setting they had before you pressed Easy. I'd _really_ like to know if the HD HF setting is one of the "some". Easy turns off a bunch of menus, including the one that lets you select HF.

The image stabilization is amazing - point at something, shake the camera in your hand, and the image in the viewfinder doesn't twitch.

Overall, the XR520V is noticeably smaller and seems lighter than the SR12. It's a very satisfying upgrade.

- Dennis Brothers

brothers,

Since you seem to have experience with SR12 as well, how does it compare with XR520V ? Since SR11/12 can be had for good price now a days is it worth the paying premium for XR520 (specially since I have no interest in GPS features) ?

You got that right. I was holding out for the 520v... but walked into BestBuy tonight to buy a movie and they were selling their last SR11... $700. I couldn't say no.

Bigbarney, remember the old Bon Jovi song "Shot through the heart and you're to blame"? Well your post is like a dagger through the heart

I just bought the SR11 off Ebay for $755 shipped. Sealed with the Sony sticker. I thought it was a steal since no online retailer had it less than $850. It kills me to know that someone got it for significantly less. Like you, with the SR11 for less than half of the 520v it was too good to give up. I don't care for the GPS functionality and the size of the HDD is of no consequence since I bought a 500 GB Western Digital My Passport to backup all my videos anyway. I'll be hitting BB tonight to see what they have. How much Sales tax did you pay? Was it new or the display one?

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Hey Brothers, thanks for the quick review of the 520v. As ajamils says below I'd be interested in some more detailed feedback from yourself since you own both camcorders. Here are some of the differences I got from the Sony site.

HDD (60 vs 120 vs 240)
Smaller dimensions
A hair lighter
GPS receiver
Smile detection

Are there any that I missed? You say the image stabilization is amazing. Is it better on the 520 than the SR11/12? Also, as you experiment more with the GPS functionality I'd be interested in what you find. At this point in time I don't believe that it would be of any value to me. Also, since I have a portable 500GB external HDD that I got for $100 I don't care about the 120 or 240 GB HDD size. All that seems to be left is the smaller size, lighter by a few fractions of an ounce, and smile detection. Clearly very nice to have but not worth $700 to me.

Thanks for any responses you may offer


I second Ajamils inquiries. I just got the SR11 for $755 and $25 for the 16 GB Memory stick... so what would I look to gain by upgrading? Thanks!

One application you may wish to consider is the open source free software package called cinelerra. Now I have a positive dislike for that package as I spent a silly amount of time trying to figure out its interface, before I gave up in disgust. Still some users claim it is the most powerful NLE available for Linux, and I note from this wiki that it purportedly runs under Mac OS/X: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...iting_software ... and according to that wiki it also possibly supports AVCHD. If cinelerra does use ffmpeg, then you could recompile it using the latest svn version of ffmpeg, and quite possibly have excellent AVCHD NLE capabilities (assuming you are good at deciphering undecipherable GUIs). ...

So you could try it. ...

A caution - please don't shoot the messenger. I do not like that package myself. I found its interface too difficult, and it appeared to me to be unstable (although that might have been me trying things that I was not supposed to try, and the error detection/blocking/stopping did not keep me safe).

It is unfortunate that the user manual and service manual are not available online yet for this camera. To help me make my decision, I would be very grateful if

A) someone could report the level of precision of the geotagging - ie I am assuming the latitude and longitude are stored with each video and still - please tell me - to how many decimal places? (a screenshot of the geotag as shown by the video downloading software would be great).

B) I would also like to confirm that the Nightshot feature is the typical Sony set up where there is an infrared emitting LED on the front of the camera, and when the switch is put in the Nightshot position two things happen.

1) The LED turns on (you can probably see a dull red glow if your eyes are dark-adapted -

is that true? -

if not they may be using a 950nm LED as opposed to a 880nm LED)

2) The infrared blocking filter in front of the sensor is slid out of the way (if this sliding is accomplished by the movement of the switch then if the switch is in an intermediate position (note that the switch is bistable and will resist being in a intermediate position) then the filter will be partly on an partly off and, in the dark, part of the scene will be lit up, part will be dark (the reflected infrared is being blocked by the part of the filter still over the sensor).

Is this the way it is in this camera?

Many features are typically crippled when Nightshot is active because of Sony's desire to prevent prurient use of the camera (the cameras can see through certain types of clothing under the right conditions in the IR).

I assume that nightshot recording is possible in high def. But is this so?

I assume that nightshot recording is possible in 240 fps. But is this so?

C) The camcorder apparently has no manual control over shutterspeed or aperture, but of course they can be sort of controlled by varying the exposure. It would be useful to know the ranges that the camcorder uses (perhaps they are listed in a specification page).

What is the smallest aperture? (most camcorders only go down to F8, nice to know for those of us who do macrophotography)

What is the fastest shutter speed?

Thanks so much for helping me!

If I trade in my old SR200 Camcorder and use a Best Buy 12% off coupon that I occasionally get in the mail, I can order the 500V for a little under $850 depending on any sales.

But I too would like to know what one gains by upgrading, compared to purchasing a $700 SR11 at BB. I don't care for the GPS either, but improved image capability in both day and night shots, and improved autofocus would mean allot.

How is the image in a birght day shot and a dark night shot compared to the SR11?

I'm waiting for my 12% off coupons before I buy .

interestingly enough, I just got some BB reward zone coupons and it looks like they did away with the 12% and now its just 10%

Oh? What's the date on 'em? Good enough reason to expect to get the 500V sooner rather than later

So does anyone with one of the newer Sonys care to comment on how it compares in the picture quality arena with the SR11/12? I'd love to hear from someone with a relatively large HD screen used for viewing.

A few more observations (work has been hell lately and I've not had nearly enough time to play with the new toy):

I think the image stabilization is definitely much better than the SR12.

Another difference is the lack of a "backlit scene" button on the XR520V (the button is in an awkward place, in front below the lens, on the SR12). Instead, it has automatic backlit scene detection, which can be disabled. This may be a good thing - I usually didn't remember to press that button 'til halfway through a backlit scene.

Stills saved to the Memory Stick _are_ geotagged, even though the camera won't display the map from those photos. LightRoom shows the coordinates, and has a neat ability to bring up a Google map of the position. The map locations were within about ten feet of the actual positions of my test shots. Resolution of the coordinates (as displayed in LightRoom) was hundredths of a second.

The printed guide included in the box is about as good as the one provided with the SR12. The PDF handbook on the disk seems a lot less detailed and comprehensive than the one for the SR12 - I hope Sony releases a better one soon.

The image stabilization and geotagging were big factors in my decision to upgrade - my wife and I are going on safari in East Africa this fall, which will involve a lot of shooting on the move from Land Rovers on rough roads.

- Dennis Brothers

I received my X500V from Sonystyle on March 25th and I have to say I am thrilled with this camera!

I own a HVR-Z1U (pro version of the FX1) and this camera shoots with it quite nicely. No, it's not a $5K camera but it ain't bad for $1300. I only use the cameras for family stuff (kids, pets etc) and for shooting scenery on vacation, etc.

I was lucky enough to play with a pre-production model of the 500V for about a week the beginning of February and I fell in love with it. I had the HDR-TG1 but was disapointed in the low-light capabilities and decided a change was needed.

Is it perfect? Close but No. Here's my list of pros and cons:

PROS:
1. Great low-light picture quality, In my opinion, better than the HVR-Z1U.
2. Fantastic overall picture quality. On my 60" SXRD TV I cannot tell the difference between the 500V and the Z1U (actually the 500V has better picture resolution)
3. The Active Steadyshot is amazing. At the widest lens I can practically run shooting my kids and the playback is very smooth. Although the active mode takes a bit of getting used to if you're a "one eye in the viewfinder and one eye on the subject" person. The lag with the active steadyshot messes with your head if you're looking at VF and live together -- until you get used to it.
4. The GPS. I know a lot of people are laughing at this feature calling it a marketing gimick. But I think it's great. First off, most professional cameras ($50K and up) have at least a GPS option so you can come back later to an exact spot if you need to re-shoot. I think the 500V's GPS is good for cataloging where stuff was shot.
5. Picture Motion Browser - yes I know, may people think it's a joke but I really like it. If I shoot my kids doing something fun, I can have a WMV version of the video ready in just a couple of minutes to send to Grandma. I don't have to put into an editor or anything. Just do it in PMB. I also like the sorting abilities in PMB. I can sort by faces in the video, GPS coordinates, date, time, etc. But my favorite feature (if I could get it to work) is the burn direct to Blu-Ray. In theory, all you have to do is highlight all the clips you want then tell PMB to burn to Blu-Ray. It will make Blu-ray menus with thumbnails with the option to either play all or one at a time. If you're into editing (I use Adobe Premiere CS4), it has an added benefit..... If you burn the blur-ray and set the option to "consolidate" to off, it will put the original .m2ts files in the BDMV/STREAMS folder. Then after the blu-ray is burned you have both an archived version of all your raw material (with the ability to view on a blu-ray player) but you can also copy the files directly from the Blu-ray disk to the PC for editing on Premiere. Now, I said "if I could get it to work). There seems to be a slight bug in PMB..... I have a Sony model 200 Blu-Ray burner mounted in an external housing with USB. When I go to actually burn all the above, PMB comes back and tells me I cannot burn to an 8cm disk that I must use a 12cm disk. Clearly it doesn't like something in the external housing so I've got to figure out how to get hold of Sony's engineers to tell them about the bug.

CONS:
Pretty much the same things others are saying
1. Wish I could adjust sharpness in the picture a little bit
2. Wish I could specify the shutter speed. I hate automatic
3. Wish I could specify the max amount of gain. Only automatic


I bought the underwater housing for the camera and we had a big snowfall in Richmond, VA this week. Slapped it in the housing and the kids could throw snowballs all over the camera and the lens and everything and I didn't care. Got some great shots, too!

A lot of people complain about the battery life. If you're talking about the battery that comes with it, then yes. It gives you about an hour. I bought a model 70 battery (same size) and it about doubles the life of the battery. I just use the supplied battery as a spare.

Another feature that's kind of cheesy but cute at the same time is the highlights feature. You can tell the camera to playback highlights of everything that's on the hard drive like a little clip replay. It even has music (again, super cheesy music but you can transfer your own into the camera). It seems to find the points to highlight based upon face recognition and a few other factors. It's not bad, but I would prefer it didn't freeze the video from one clip before transitioning to the second clip. Guess that would add too much hardware and cost.

WISH LIST for my next Sony camcorder:

1. PLEASE let me charge the darn thing through the USB port. I hate carrying AC adapters. In fact, I bought the travel wall charger so I don't have to carry yet another adapter.
2. Fix the cons mentioned above.

I would give this camera a 95/100 rating in the consumer camera category. The 5 points are lost becuase of the no shutter and gain control.

Enjoy!

Stacy

Stacy, thanks for sharing your detailed thoughts!! They offer a lot of insight. I got my HDR-SR11 today and I too am really upset and the recharging capabilities. I have to lug the adapter and cradle to Disney I guess...

About the PMB, I haven't figured out what that is yet. Is it software included in Sony's CD-ROM's with the HandyCams? Also, how much did the underwater enclosure cost you (if I may ask)?

500v, underwater enclosure, and HVR-Z1U!!! How loaded are you lady? I need to get whatever job you have.

Thanks,

Sam

Great review Stacy!

Actually, it's Mr. :-)

I bought the Z1 when it came out, so as far as my wfie is concerned, it's "depreciated". At the time all other "consumer" HDV stuff sucked so I spent the extra $$$ on the Pro model.

The underwater housing was $250 or something like that. I wasn't planning on it, but then realized how much I fretted when I took the camera to the pool -- worried about it getting wet. Now I can just take it IN the pool!

Picture Motion Browser is software that comes with the camera. Again, it's not too bad.... when you connect the camera it's listening and will ask you if you want to import off the camera. It will then transfer the m2ts and jpg files off the camera into a new directory in your Pictures folder. It then indexes them and puts them all in PMB. You can add other folders that already have pictures and videos, too.

what is the fastest shutter speed?
does it have a manual shutter speed control?
does it have a slo-mo mode?

Don't know about the fasted shutter speed

No, it does not have a manual shutter (rats)

Yes it has the same super-slo-mo mode the other cameras have.

So what's the verdict ? For regular user (who has no interest in GPS feature) Is XR500/520 really worth the extra $$$ compared SR11/12 ? Is there any difference in PQ between the two models ?

I think they have discontinued the SR11/12..... Without seeing them I think one of the biggest differences is the Exmor R CMOS imager.

It makes a world of difference in low-light recording.

Stacy, you first said it's no '$5,000 camera', but you then go on to say you can't tell the difference between the Z1 and the XR on a 60" screen...except the XR is sharper. So what gives? Does it produce a better picture than your Z1? What about color and exposure latitude compared to the Z1?

I'm not sure if you ever had the SR11 or SR12. If so, any thoughts on how it compares to those?

I ask these questions because I did comparison of my HG21 to my new Sony Z5. The Z5 is the sharpest cam I've ever owned and the color, low-light and exposure latitude are the best I've seen. But of course it's big, heavy and carries a steep price tag.

[quote=srothwell;15976458]Actually, it's Mr. :-)

I bought the Z1 when it came out, so as far as my wfie is concerned, it's "depreciated". At the time all other "consumer" HDV stuff sucked so I spent the extra $$$ on the Pro model.

The underwater housing was $250 or something like that. I wasn't planning on it, but then realized how much I fretted when I took the camera to the pool -- worried about it getting wet. Now I can just take it IN the pool!
QUOTE]

$250! Nice deal! The ones I saw were for $900 at B&H and there were a couple under Google Shopping for $2500 - $3500. I was like $750 for the camera and 4 times that for the enclosure... no thank you. But $250 is doable after I get my rebate. I go to the Mediterranean every summer and would love some underwater footage in HD. Can you tell us what brand you got? How happy with it are you? I imagine it's not the official Sony one I've been seeing.

About PMB, sorry for the noooobilicious question, I knew it was one as I was clicking reply. I just got my SR11 today and I saw the PMB CD. I'll be loading this up when I get back from Disney if it's free and easy to use. I don't do a lot of editing and would rather spend extra dough on a spare battery rather that Vegas 8, etc.

Right now I'm soo pissed that the 16GB Sony Memory Stick I ordered off Ebay was a counterfiet. I'll be returning it now. Can anyone recommend which *official* charger works with the NP-FH60 battery?

Cheers