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Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 663
Thread Starter 
Tests of VGA @ 1280x1024 and VGA @ 1360x768 provide almost identical results.

Although, instead of have 1-2 pictures lagging half a frame, the 650 was actually ahead in 2 pictures.

Based on this I would say the input lag in VGA mode @ both of these resolutions is likely in the 0ms range (in comparison to the LCD monitor).
Again, VGA appears to offer the best results.

(I'm not going to bother uploading those 30 pictures because it is a PITA)
post #122 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

One thing though is that what game on the Wii requires low input lag anyways??? Not really any interesting online games on it lol...

Dunno!

But I have heard people mention it in a couple threads.

I haven't been able to locate my component dongle yet (In storage somewhere I'm sure).

I still hope to test component @480P (If and when I locate it) for those Wii users.
post #123 of 663
Thread Starter 
Here are pictures from my tests of Component @480P in Standard mode with everything off.

Based on this I would say the input lag in Component @480P in Standard mode with everything off is likely in the 80-100ms range (in comparison to the LCD monitor).
So far, these are the worst results.
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post #124 of 663
Thread Starter 
Next images for Component @480P in Standard mode with everything off.
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post #125 of 663
Thread Starter 
Here are pictures from my tests of Component @480P in Game mode.

Based on this I would say the input lag in Component @480P in Game mode is likely in the 15-25ms range (in comparison to the LCD monitor).
Basically the same results as HDMI Game mode.
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post #126 of 663
Thread Starter 
Next 5 images for Component @480P in Game mode.
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post #127 of 663
Hey guy since you done much of everything I was thinking about one last thing and really can say you have tried everything lol...

Try out the energy saver modes if it adds any more input lag just in case...

You know like try it out on game mode with energy saver mode set to low, then medium, then high and possibly auto to see if it does anything.

Since people who would prefer or have no choice but to choose game mode then most will probably use the energy saver mode to bring down the backlight some.
post #128 of 663
Alright so I read over the thread and there is a ton of great information. My problem is deciphering it all seeing as I'm in no way, shape or form a AV expert or even someone anyone would consider overly savvy. I JUST bought the a650 today from Best Buy. I've been researching LCD's for the last month and a half and arrived at the 650. I do game quite a bit which is what brought me to this thread. I fired up the PS3 this evening and began playing Socom Confrontation and immediately noticed the lag. I quickly went to turn off the AMP and that didn't help.

I made my way here and found out about Game mode so I quickly grabbed the remote went to game mode and was pleased to see the lag drastically reduced. However I had/have a new problem. The game is just to dark, ESPECIALLY on night maps. Socom Confrontation does support 1080p and from what I've gathered because it does support 1080p I can effectively reduce or eliminate the lag? Currently I'm running everything through the basic RCA's because I didn't want to get raped by Best Buy on the HDMI cables and planned to go online. I'm really just looking for someone to make further sense of everything that I've read over the last 5 pages. If i can't brighten up the screen and eliminate the lag without using Game Mode I may need to take her back and get a different TV.

What do I need to do? I don't want to use Game Mode. Also best place to buy HDMI cables?

EDIT: Thanks in advance and thank you gman for all the terrific info and hard work and Cynn for summarizing it all. Thank you.
post #129 of 663
Ok first off go here and get yourself an HDMI cable: http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...02&cp_id=10243

Monoprice is THE place to get the best cables for the cheapest PERIOD. No one here will argue that.

1) When you have your cable, plug it into the PS3 and into your HDMI TV port with the label "2" on it.

2) Boot up your PS3 and select HDMI 2 from your source list. You will now see the PS3 image.

3) Now on your remote press "source" then "tools" then rename source. Select "PC" from the source list.

4) Go into your PS3 options and select "RGB FULL" color.

5) Tweak your picture until happy.

6) Go play Socom and shoot people with the ease you did when gaming on a big cathode tube!

If you run into any trouble just come back to this thread or PM me. I'll be happy to help.

When you play Blu-Rays the TV will shift out of PC mode by it's self so you can have that 24p goodness and AMP low if you are like me. Only problem is, 720p will also shift you out of PC mode so lag may return when playing non 1080p games. I wish we had an answer for that other than just wishing Sony had put a scaler in the thing like Xbox has. If all else fails for 720p then check out the game mode in the XBR line and see if it's better to you and swap. At this point in time it's pretty much impossible for an HDTV over 60hz to be lag free in normal modes.
post #130 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynn View Post


720p will also shift you out of PC mode so lag may return when playing non 1080p games. I wish we had an answer for that other than just wishing Sony had put a scaler in the thing like Xbox has. If all else fails for 720p then check out the game mode in the XBR line and see if it's better to you and swap. At this point in time it's pretty much impossible for an HDTV over 60hz to be lag free in normal modes.

Good post Cynn, and a +1 on monoprice... great cables, excellent price, good service.

720p though... interesting that it will leave PC mode, but I think switching TVs might be a drastic suggestion. Game mode on the 650 has very little lag, and can be switching on and off easily via the remote.

I play some PS3 on my 46A650 (mostly xbox360), and I usually leave it in game mode. When I watch a movie and want AMP (usually on the animated movies), I switch out of game mode.
post #131 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynn View Post

Ok first off go here and get yourself an HDMI cable: http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...02&cp_id=10243

Monoprice is THE place to get the best cables for the cheapest PERIOD. No one here will argue that.

1) When you have your cable, plug it into the PS3 and into your HDMI TV port with the label "2" on it.

2) Boot up your PS3 and select HDMI 2 from your source list. You will now see the PS3 image.

3) Now on your remote press "source" then "tools" then rename source. Select "PC" from the source list.

4) Go into your PS3 options and select "RGB FULL" color.

5) Tweak your picture until happy.

6) Go play Socom and shoot people with the ease you did when gaming on a big cathode tube!

If you run into any trouble just come back to this thread or PM me. I'll be happy to help.

When you play Blu-Rays the TV will shift out of PC mode by it's self so you can have that 24p goodness and AMP low if you are like me. Only problem is, 720p will also shift you out of PC mode so lag may return when playing non 1080p games. I wish we had an answer for that other than just wishing Sony had put a scaler in the thing like Xbox has. If all else fails for 720p then check out the game mode in the XBR line and see if it's better to you and swap. At this point in time it's pretty much impossible for an HDTV over 60hz to be lag free in normal modes.

Thanks Cynn. I really appreciate the response. I was so stoked to pick up this TV especially after all the research and everything indicating it was fantastic on many levels. I for whatever reason never thought to research gaming, specifically gaming on the PS3. I was so bummed last night when I fired it up normally and it lagged like crazy. Anyway thank you for the great information and I'll be on monoprice ordering cables today.

Are there specific cables most people lean towards? I have a 5.1 and my PS3 running to the TV as well as directv but I need to have directv change out my box and dish for HD soon. Thanks again. I definitely didn't want to have to return my new baby.

EDIT: Daver game mode fixed the lag issue, it was just entirely to dark for Socom which is the game I play most at this point in time. If i could adjust the brightness in game mode I'd be perfectly happy but because I can't I really was considering a different TV if I couldn't find another solution. Thanks for the response as well.
post #132 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post


EDIT: Daver game mode fixed the lag issue, it was just entirely to dark for Socom which is the game I play most at this point in time. If i could adjust the brightness in game mode I'd be perfectly happy but because I can't I really was considering a different TV if I couldn't find another solution. Thanks for the response as well.

I don't have SOCOM... does it have a brightness control in-game (often in an options or video menu)? Most games do, and I find all it takes is a 1 or two notch bump to see everything, depending on the game. Don't go too high or it will wash out and loose the "pop".
post #133 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

Are there specific cables most people lean towards? I have a 5.1 and my PS3 running to the TV as well as directv but I need to have directv change out my box and dish for HD soon. Thanks again. I definitely didn't want to have to return my new baby.

I typically purchase either 3992 (adjust for your length) for normal installation or 3662 (again adjust for your length) for In-Wall installation.
post #134 of 663
Thread Starter 
You can also adjust the brightness by adjusting the energy saver settings. (If I remember correctly)
post #135 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I don't have SOCOM... does it have a brightness control in-game (often in an options or video menu)? Most games do, and I find all it takes is a 1 or two notch bump to see everything, depending on the game. Don't go too high or it will wash out and loose the "pop".

I don't believe it does and I don't plan to go too high. It looked fine on my standard definition, it's just too dark via game mode on this HD set up. I'm pretty sure everyone with a HD set up has the darkness issue and they usually just adjust the brightness. Unfortunately in the a650's that isn't as easy as I'm sure you know. I will check to see if it does, thanks for the suggestion. Any suggestion on HDMI cables from Monoprice?
post #136 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

You can also adjust the brightness by adjusting the energy saver settings. (If I remember correctly)


So I can brighten it up with the Energy Saver setting? I'm still likely going to go Cynn's suggested route but will try the energy saver route and see if there is in-game brightness adjustment as suggested by Daver. I'll check out the 3992. Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. I'm tech savvy for the most part but HD isn't my forte. Great info here as always.
post #137 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

So I can brighten it up with the Energy Saver setting?

Yes. If that doesn't work let me know because I may be confusing it for another setting. But I know there was a round about way to control it. I'm pretty sure that was it though.
post #138 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

Yes. If that doesn't work let me know because I may be confusing it for another setting. But I know there was a round about way to control it. I'm pretty sure that was it though.

I just gave it a whirl and I can only darken the screen with Energy Saver. I need to brighten it up which I believe can only be achieved via Cynn's suggestion. Game Mode is too dark so Energy Saver will only make it darker from what I can tell while watching TV and adjusting it.
post #139 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

I just gave it a whirl and I can only darken the screen with Energy Saver. I need to brighten it up which I believe can only be achieved via Cynn's suggestion. Game Mode is too dark so Energy Saver will only make it darker from what I can tell while watching TV and adjusting it.

So Energy Saver Off (or Low, Auto) are still too dark?

Usually people use it to darken the screen because PC Mode can produce a bright "washed out" look.
post #140 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

So Energy Saver Off (or Low, Auto) are still too dark?

Usually people use it to darken the screen because PC Mode can produce a bright "washed out" look.

I'm not yet using PC mode. I just picked up the TV yesterday and discovered excessive lag while trying to play Socom. Cynn suggested PC mode but I need to get some HDMI cables so I can use it. I may need energy saver at that point but currently it only makes things darker. I have it set on AUTO right now.
post #141 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

I'm not yet using PC mode. I just picked up the TV yesterday and discovered excessive lag while trying to play Socom. Cynn suggested PC mode but I need to get some HDMI cables so I can use it. I may need energy saver at that point but currently it only makes things darker. I have it set on AUTO right now.

Right. It darkens the screen as you increase the level so your best bet would be "Off". The panel attempts to save energy by dimming the screen.

If "Off" is still too dark, you will need to look for another solution.

Edit: To clarify, it does this regardless of PC Mode. I only added that in because the common use for it is to help with the washed out look in PC Mode.
post #142 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

Right. It darkens the screen as you increase the level so your best bet would be "Off". The panel attempts to save energy by dimming the screen.

If "Off" is still too dark, you will need to look for another solution.

Edit: To clarify, it does this regardless of PC Mode. I only added that in because the common use for it is to help with the washed out look in PC Mode.

Agreed. Cynn suggested the other solution so I'm hoping that works.

EDIT: Whats the difference between the 3992 and say the 3990 besides cost?

2nd EDIT: I see it's just in wall as opposed to not. My set up is currently in a entertainment center so it's not in wall. I still can't get over the mark up of cables from the big box stores. I've known about it for a while but it still blows my mind, for instance the PS3/Sony branded HDMI cables are like 80 bucks lol. Crazy.
post #143 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post



Playstation 3
- The PS3 operates different from the Xbox 360. The PS3 will output the source format. This means that, if you are playing a 480P or 720P title (game/dvd), and trying to utilize the HDMI2/PC feature it will not work and will not reduce the signal processing (input lag).

Have you tried making your PS3 force upscale your games? Manually deselecting all the resolutions you don't want in the display settings on your PS3. I've seen it work with a few games though if it's not supported by the game I think I remember hearing that it'll actually downscale to 480p. It's worth a shot to see if it works with whichever game(s) you're playing though.
post #144 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

I see it's just in wall as opposed to not. My set up is currently in a entertainment center so it's not in wall. I still can't get over the mark up of cables from the big box stores. I've known about it for a while but it still blows my mind, for instance the PS3/Sony branded HDMI cables are like 80 bucks lol. Crazy.

Yeah... Monster cables for $120!

I'm using a short 3' monoprice non-in-wall HDMI cable to go from the PS3 to a 46A650 and don't have a problem with darkness, so hopefully it will work well for you too. I've been gaming on this set for a while and I still think its looks amazing.

Good luck! Please post back in this thread when you get your cable to report if game mode+ SOCOM is looking and playing good.
post #145 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhriad View Post

Have you tried making your PS3 force upscale your games? Manually deselecting all the resolutions you don't want in the display settings on your PS3. I've seen it work with a few games though if it's not supported by the game I think I remember hearing that it'll actually downscale to 480p. It's worth a shot to see if it works with whichever game(s) you're playing though.

The PS3 will upscale DVDs without issue (in fact, it is very good at it). It will also upscale PS1 and PS2 (if you have an older one) games. It will not however upscale PS3 games. Most games are 720p, so if you say your TV does not support 720p then you end up with the game being downscaled to 480p.
post #146 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Yeah... Monster cables for $120!

I'm using a short 3' monoprice non-in-wall HDMI cable to go from the PS3 to a 46A650 and don't have a problem with darkness, so hopefully it will work well for you too. I've been gaming on this set for a while and I still think its looks amazing.

Good luck! Please post back in this thread when you get your cable to report if game mode+ SOCOM is looking and playing good.


I certainly will and hope the HDMI will make a difference. I am going to try what Cynn suggested as well. Socom is pretty much all I'm playing right now with some NHL 09 and Little Big Planet mixed in...I'm also finally going to give Metal Gear solid 4 a serious go now that I have a better TV. Socom is the only one I've tried since picking up the TV. Thankfully it does support 1080p but LBP does not and I haven't checked NHL 09. Anyway thanks for all the help and same goes for everyone that has answered my questions thus far. Thanks.
post #147 of 663
for the 650 and 750, try reducing your gamma to -2 and leave your backlight 3-5, and contrast(95) and brightness(43-46) at default when using movie mode on HDMI2/PC, this will give you pop, detail and less lag. I am convinced HDMI2/PC mode has a less detailed image, and I do enjoy (the not available in PC mode) Auto Motion Plus for some slower paced games, and games that have bad framerates.
post #148 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero HD View Post

for the 650 and 750, try reducing your gamma to -2 and leave your backlight 3-5, and contrast(95) and brightness(43-46) at default when using movie mode on HDMI2/PC, this will give you pop, detail and less lag. I am convinced HDMI2/PC mode has a less detailed image, and I do enjoy (the not available in PC mode) Auto Motion Plus for some slower paced games, and games that have bad framerates.


I'll give this a shot as well. Thanks for the post/info.
post #149 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhriad View Post

Have you tried making your PS3 force upscale your games? Manually deselecting all the resolutions you don't want in the display settings on your PS3. I've seen it work with a few games though if it's not supported by the game I think I remember hearing that it'll actually downscale to 480p. It's worth a shot to see if it works with whichever game(s) you're playing though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tree Dude View Post

The PS3 will upscale DVDs without issue (in fact, it is very good at it). It will also upscale PS1 and PS2 (if you have an older one) games. It will not however upscale PS3 games. Most games are 720p, so if you say your TV does not support 720p then you end up with the game being downscaled to 480p.

I do not currently own a PS3. This part was based of information provided by others. This is the first mention of the PS3 upscaling (for DVD's or otherwise) that I have read.

If the PS3 does indeed operate the way you describe, I can change that section to reflect the more accurate information.
post #150 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

2nd EDIT: I see it's just in wall as opposed to not. My set up is currently in a entertainment center so it's not in wall. I still can't get over the mark up of cables from the big box stores. I've known about it for a while but it still blows my mind, for instance the PS3/Sony branded HDMI cables are like 80 bucks lol. Crazy.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. BB (and other stores) enjoy their highest profit margin for cables and accessories.
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