AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 663
1/31/09 at 2:41pm
Everyone may want to post with their opinions in this thread/forum:

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_10...;forum-threads
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #242 of 663
1/31/09 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Keeping in mind Rock Band 2 has different lag findings than other games...

My findings for lag in RB2:
HDMI1 "Game Mode": Video Offset 24 to 44ms, settled for 30ms
HDMI2 "PC Mode": Video Offset -4 to 22ms range, settled for 12ms

Note that these numbers are positive ("+") numbers unless indicated with a "-". My tests were done with in-game calibration using an ION wired drum controller. Numbers can vary widely based on performance/accuracy during tests. The audio calibration numbers are irreverent because I'm running through a separate JVC Dolby Headphone unit. Also, as mentioned, the HDMI2 "PC Mode" is a noticeably softer image than the other input's "Game Mode"

Bottom line:
My findings are in line with the OP: HDMI2 "PC Mode" is pretty much lag-free on a Samsung LNxxA650. However, HDMI1's "Game Mode" is almost as lag free (very acceptable on my end) and presents a sharper image. My personal preference is to stick with Game Mode -- YMMV.

I finally got my HDMI cables from Monoprice and it makes Socom look incredible. I edited my source setting for HDMI2 to say PC to the right but do I actually need to select PC mode via the "mode" function on the remote or does it simply go in to PC mode automatically after I edit the source name? Socom does support 1080p so PC mode for me is the answer because game mode is too dark.
Reply
Reply
post #243 of 663
1/31/09 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

Everyone may want to post with their opinions in this thread/forum:

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_10...;forum-threads

Thank you for the link. I just posted.
Reply
Reply
post #244 of 663
1/31/09 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

Thank you for the link. I just posted.

What is the point of posting there it's not like your talking to a samsung person that would do something about it???

Like I said before if they were to do something I would prefer for them to allow some adjustment of game mode instead of just allowing 720p to work for pc mode.

When it comes to picture quality wise more people prefer game mode with energy saver mode set to something than pc mode. It's also easier for many to hit the button on there remote to go into game mode and out of it for anything else.

Also some uninformed people don't know about pc mode or how it only works for 1080p so they will just use game mode like it says on the manual so better off fixing that first or at least that.
Reply
Reply
post #245 of 663
1/31/09 at 6:48pm
Nice thread.I was all set to get the 46A650 until i read of all this game lag on LCDs.I made a decision to wait for the new models to drop to see if they fair better.
Reply
Reply
post #246 of 663
1/31/09 at 9:38pm
felonyr301,

In case you haven't read any replies on that forum, there are actual Samsung people reading and replying.

Rather than say such and such wont help, how about you come up with some ideas that will? Have you written to them expressing your concerns/suggestions? Called them up and at the least get transferred to a level 2 rep?

How is posting here going to help any more than over at the the Cnet forum? Imo posting anywhere that could possibly make even a slight bit of difference helps much more than doing nothing.
Reply
Reply
post #247 of 663
2/1/09 at 9:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

I finally got my HDMI cables from Monoprice and it makes Socom look incredible. I edited my source setting for HDMI2 to say PC to the right but do I actually need to select PC mode via the "mode" function on the remote or does it simply go in to PC mode automatically after I edit the source name? Socom does support 1080p so PC mode for me is the answer because game mode is too dark.

It automatically changes when you rename it to PC.
Reply
Reply
post #248 of 663
2/1/09 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

Socom does support 1080p so PC mode for me is the answer because game mode is too dark.

What firmware were you using?

I was using firmware 1003M and game mode was fine. I just tried out firmware 2007 and game mode is way too dark!

I'm switching back to 1003M firmware as I type this.
Reply
Reply
post #249 of 663
2/1/09 at 9:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

What firmware were you using?

I was using firmware 1003M and game mode was fine. I just tried out firmware 2007 and game mode is way too dark!

I'm switching back to 1003M firmware as I type this.

Perhaps they toned down Game mode? Many had complained it was too bright and washed out.
Reply
Reply
post #250 of 663
2/1/09 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

Perhaps they toned down Game mode? Many had complained it was too bright and washed out.

Possibly, but FW 1003m makes my 360 and PS3 look perfect.

However, going through the update process pointed out something important:

I noticed in the TV menu's "Picture Options" that the HDMI Black Level defaults to "Low". This needs to be changed to "Normal" or the blacks are crushed, resulting in a dark picture. Once this TV option was changed to normal, the faint details of a dark picture could be seen clearly, the blacks are still deep and the colors still "pop".

Check this on your TV -- could this be why SOCOM looks too dark for you?
Reply
Reply
post #251 of 663
2/1/09 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Possibly, but FW 1003m makes my 360 and PS3 look perfect.

However, going through the update process pointed out something important:

I noticed in the TV menu's "Picture Options" that the HDMI Black Level defaults to "Low". This needs to be changed to "Normal" or the blacks are crushed, resulting in a dark picture. Once this TV option was changed to normal, the faint details of a dark picture could be seen clearly, the blacks are still deep and the colors still "pop".

Check this on your TV -- could this be why SOCOM looks too dark for you?

Very good possibility. I'll check in to it after the Super Bowl. I just bought the a650 last week, should it have the most recent firmware or is that something I should download? How can I check this?
Reply
Reply
post #252 of 663
2/1/09 at 10:45am
I just checked and my black levels are set at normal so unfortunately that's not why game mode is too dark. I'm running in HDMI2/PC mode and it's great. Thankfully Socom supports 1080p.
Reply
Reply
post #253 of 663
2/1/09 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

felonyr301,

In case you haven't read any replies on that forum, there are actual Samsung people reading and replying.

Rather than say such and such wont help, how about you come up with some ideas that will? Have you written to them expressing your concerns/suggestions? Called them up and at the least get transferred to a level 2 rep?

How is posting here going to help any more than over at the the Cnet forum? Imo posting anywhere that could possibly make even a slight bit of difference helps much more than doing nothing.

I wasn't trying to state it's pointless if I knew there were samsung reps over there actually helping but everytime I go over there I don't see nothing happening.

Also I already suggested for what to do while not being to much hard work or impossible for them to do. I'll post it up over there then but I have very little faith in this being resolved because by this time all the companies really care about is the new tv they bring out which catches their most attention and that's just the way I think sorry .
Reply
Reply
post #254 of 663
2/1/09 at 5:40pm
Just found this and thought I'd pass it along. It's a youtube video demonstrating input lag on a Pioneer Kuro plasma (for some reason folks assume that plasmas don't suffer from input lag): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSW94blyA5Y

No word on what settings were used in the vid, but you can see the lag there.
Reply
Reply
post #255 of 663
2/1/09 at 9:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsh1998 View Post

Just found this and thought I'd pass it along. It's a youtube video demonstrating input lag on a Pioneer Kuro plasma (for some reason folks assume that plasmas don't suffer from input lag): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSW94blyA5Y

No word on what settings were used in the vid, but you can see the lag there.

I think you would find most LCD's/Plasma's would test out in the ~40ms range (under normal operation).
From what information I have seen on other sets, this seems to be fairly common.

Many people assume because they see tests of the Samsung line having input lag they think it only applies to it and other brands/models are not suffering from the same type of input lag.
Reply
Reply
post #256 of 663
2/2/09 at 12:28am
Alright if i put my TV in to PC mode and it's actually IN PC mode does "PC" appear via the e-mode button? I followed Cynn's suggestions but I'm not sure I did it correctly because I feel like I'm still lagging. I previously tried the black level suggestion but I guess I was changing it in the wrong menu because I found somewhere that had is set at low so i put it to normal and it made a difference. I'd still like to adjust my brightness so I want to make sure I'm getting the PC mode correct. I think I'm doing it wrong.
Reply
Reply
post #257 of 663
2/2/09 at 1:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsh1998 View Post

Just found this and thought I'd pass it along. It's a youtube video demonstrating input lag on a Pioneer Kuro plasma (for some reason folks assume that plasmas don't suffer from input lag): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSW94blyA5Y

No word on what settings were used in the vid, but you can see the lag there.

That's a lot more than 46ms of lag. It look more like 120ms at least.
Reply
Reply
post #258 of 663
2/2/09 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

Alright if i put my TV in to PC mode and it's actually IN PC mode does "PC" appear via the e-mode button? I followed Cynn's suggestions but I'm not sure I did it correctly because I feel like I'm still lagging. I previously tried the black level suggestion but I guess I was changing it in the wrong menu because I found somewhere that had is set at low so i put it to normal and it made a difference. I'd still like to adjust my brightness so I want to make sure I'm getting the PC mode correct. I think I'm doing it wrong.

"PC mode" isn't an entertainment mode (Sports, Cinema, Game), it's more of a hidden "behind the scenes" mode.

It requires three things:
-input HDMI2/DVI, or VGA
-that input labeled "PC"
-input source locked at 1080p/60

If those 3 requirements are met, then you should be in "PC mode". Keep in mind that a PS3 will leave 1080/60 for many games and Blu-ray discs.
Reply
Reply
post #259 of 663
2/2/09 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post

Alright if i put my TV in to PC mode and it's actually IN PC mode does "PC" appear via the e-mode button? I followed Cynn's suggestions but I'm not sure I did it correctly because I feel like I'm still lagging. I previously tried the black level suggestion but I guess I was changing it in the wrong menu because I found somewhere that had is set at low so i put it to normal and it made a difference. I'd still like to adjust my brightness so I want to make sure I'm getting the PC mode correct. I think I'm doing it wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

"PC mode" isn't an entertainment mode (Sports, Cinema, Game), it's more of a hidden "behind the scenes" mode.

It requires three things:
-input HDMI2/DVI, or VGA
-that input labeled "PC"
-input source locked at 1080p/60

If those 3 requirements are met, then you should be in "PC mode". Keep in mind that a PS3 will leave 1080/60 for many games and Blu-ray discs.


From the first informational post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

You can easily check if PC mode is active by pressing the E.Mode button. If you get the response box stating "not available" this means that the PC feature is active. If you are able to change the E.Mode, PC mode is not active and the A650 is operating under normal processing.
Reply
Reply
post #260 of 663
2/2/09 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

From the first informational post.

Thanks for the clarification.
Reply
Reply
post #261 of 663
2/2/09 at 10:56am
Thanks DaverJ for posting your results I think this helps allot of us. I've always wondered if having a wireless guitar and or drums add to the lag. I'll run my test tonight on the A750 using auto cal and post what I get.
Reply
Reply
post #262 of 663
2/2/09 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darvan View Post

I've always wondered if having a wireless guitar and or drums add to the lag. I'll run my test tonight on the A750 using auto cal and post what I get.

I have no proof, but I think controller lag is so minor it's inconsequential.

Let us know your results and what TV settings you are using -- thx.
Reply
Reply
post #263 of 663
2/3/09 at 9:43pm
Any ideas on why the text in game would be a little messed up in PC mode? The text seems "stretched" or "compressed down with a vice grip or something.
Reply
Reply
post #264 of 663
2/4/09 at 3:13am
Okay guys sorry for the late post, TV I'm using is a Samsung Ln52A750 I bought Rock Band 2 for the PS3. So I'm running the game in Game Mode on HDMI 2. Since I also have a 360 I have the label set to PC. I used Auto Calibration using the guitar I ran the test 10 times and here is what I got.

1.) 48
2.) 45
3.) 47
4.) 48
5.) 44
6.) 45
7.) 60
8.) 58
9.) 59
10.) 60

Now what I don't get is why towards the end the amount went up when doing the auto cal as you can see it was pretty much in the 40~ until until test 7. How I did the test I ran auto cal once the number came up I would back out to test again and reran it. I'm also wondering if having the TV label PC and it being in game mode is causing any issues.
Reply
Reply
post #265 of 663
2/4/09 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darvan View Post

I'm also wondering if having the TV label PC and it being in game mode is causing any issues.

Is your 360 set to output 1080p?
Reply
Reply
post #266 of 663
2/4/09 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Is your 360 set to output 1080p?

He's doing the calibration on the PS3 in game mode, but connected to HDMI2 apparently through an HDMI receiver, to which his Xbox 360 is also connected. I think he is asking, if HDMI2 is labeled PC and you are running in game mode instead of PC mode, does it cause issues?

At least, that's what I read from his post.
Reply
Reply
post #267 of 663
2/4/09 at 6:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darvan View Post

Okay guys sorry for the late post, TV I'm using is a Samsung Ln52A750 I bought Rock Band 2 for the PS3. So I'm running the game in Game Mode on HDMI 2. Since I also have a 360 I have the label set to PC. I used Auto Calibration using the guitar I ran the test 10 times and here is what I got.

1.) 48
2.) 45
3.) 47
4.) 48
5.) 44
6.) 45
7.) 60
8.) 58
9.) 59
10.) 60

Now what I don't get is why towards the end the amount went up when doing the auto cal as you can see it was pretty much in the 40~ until until test 7. How I did the test I ran auto cal once the number came up I would back out to test again and reran it. I'm also wondering if having the TV label PC and it being in game mode is causing any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Lighter View Post

He's doing the calibration on the PS3 in game mode, but connected to HDMI2 apparently through an HDMI receiver, to which his Xbox 360 is also connected. I think he is asking, if HDMI2 is labeled PC and you are running in game mode instead of PC mode, does it cause issues?

At least, that's what I read from his post.

If that is what you are asking, No. At least not from my testing.
I just picked up RB2 for my 360 a couple weeks ago but haven't had a chance to do anything but check the track lists and download my previously purchased songs.

Maybe I will pop it in and check out the auto-cal to have a better idea of the process.
Reply
Reply
post #268 of 663
2/4/09 at 1:13pm
Yes Felix Lighter is correct that's what I was asking. I posted my result on the Rock Band 2 support forum lets see what they say. It would be nice to see other people numbers from the game.
Reply
Reply
post #269 of 663
2/4/09 at 3:02pm
I have been searching in this thead for an answer but no luck so I am going to try to explain my issue as best as I can

When I try to play both Metal Gear Solid 4 or COD:WOW (the only games that I have that the PS3 upscales to 1080p) online. I will occasionally get a "POP" sound and my screen will go totally black for like 3-5 seconds and then the image will just re-appear. This does not happen anytime else nor with any other game or any bluray movie.

this issue also doesn't happen very often. maybe twice in a 2 hour gaming span.

Has anyone gotten this problem before? any help would be appreciated.
Reply
Reply
post #270 of 663
2/4/09 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisita18 View Post

I have been searching in this thead for an answer but no luck so I am going to try to explain my issue as best as I can

When I try to play both Metal Gear Solid 4 or COD:WOW (the only games that I have that the PS3 upscales to 1080p) online. I will occasionally get a "POP" sound and my screen will go totally black for like 3-5 seconds and then the image will just re-appear. This does not happen anytime else nor with any other game or any bluray movie.

this issue also doesn't happen very often. maybe twice in a 2 hour gaming span.

Has anyone gotten this problem before? any help would be appreciated.

I've only been playing Resistance 2 and Uncharted, two of my small list of 1080 scaling PS3 games, and have noticed no such problem. Both have played perfectly under HDMI2 - PC Mode.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: LCD Flat Panel Displays

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread