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Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread - Page 15

post #421 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Yeah, but Game mode seems to have the contrast at 80 whereas mine is 100. I find that a backlight of 6 and Energy Saver mode set to Low is closer to a backlight of 4 with Energy Saver off than with the backlight at 7 and Energy Saver mode set to Medium. Energy Saver mode seems to lower the backlight in 2 increments.

Game mode isn't all that bad. Have you at least tried it? From what I noticed when comparing Game mode to my settings, Game mode is a little cooler in color temp, and the sharpness is really high. There's also slightly more black detail (maybe because I have gamma at -1).



Why I keep seeing people say that game mode is a cool blue mode??? Mine says normal color tone which is perfect for gaming since games seem to not go well with the warmer color tones like what movies do.
post #422 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ

Also, I have a feeling the lack of 720p in PC mode isn't an oversight... [U
View Post

it's a necessity[/u]. The reason PC mode is locked to only 1080p inputs is that's the display's native resolution, so this mode bypasses any scaling and processing, displaying 1:1 pixels to avoid lag.

I don't know this as a fact, but it seems logical.

I dont agree. PC mode scales resolutions other than 1080p, one of which is 1360 x 768, the native resolution of some "older" HDTV models marketed as 720p. Other resolutions, such as 640 x 480, 800 x 600, etc are also scaled correctly in PC mode over HDMI. An HTPC connected over VGA has even more options (but still no 1280 x 720!).

So clearly the TV can scale other resolutions in PC mode, why Samsung didn't include 720p baffles me.
post #423 of 663
Hey guys this REALLY pissed me off. I just learned about this, after popping in Halo 3 in my X360, and telling myself..."wtf?? Why the hell is it so laggy???" I have a 750 BTW. I also have an older 360, i.e. component.

Anyways, I plan to use a receiver soon, when I get my speakers. Let me ask you guys something. Would it at all be possible to connect the X360 via VGA (to the TV), and then pass an optical cable from the xbox to the receiver. Then play the audio through the receiver, and switch the input to the VGA and have the audio, as well as the video playing...with the receiver taking care of the audio, and the tv receiving the video directly.

Makes sense? Is this possible? If yes, I need to invest in a VGA AV cable...
post #424 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

Why I keep seeing people say that game mode is a cool blue mode??? Mine says normal color tone which is perfect for gaming since games seem to not go well with the warmer color tones like what movies do.

Even the default Warm1 is above the standard 6500k, normal is even cooler. But all I said was that Game mode is cooler than mine regular settings.
post #425 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewow View Post

Hey guys this REALLY pissed me off. I just learned about this, after popping in Halo 3 in my X360, and telling myself..."wtf?? Why the hell is it so laggy???" I have a 750 BTW. I also have an older 360, i.e. component.

Anyways, I plan to use a receiver soon, when I get my speakers. Let me ask you guys something. Would it at all be possible to connect the X360 via VGA (to the TV), and then pass an optical cable from the xbox to the receiver. Then play the audio through the receiver, and switch the input to the VGA and have the audio, as well as the video playing...with the receiver taking care of the audio, and the tv receiving the video directly.

Makes sense? Is this possible? If yes, I need to invest in a VGA AV cable...


Yes it's possible... I'm using a hdmi cable to the TV for video and the optical cable to my receiver for audio.

Why because my old ass surround sound receiver doesn't have hdmi ports lol.

So yea for VGA just get the Microsoft official cable which comes with the optical cable out.

Wait did you try game mode by pressing the e.mode button on your remote? It also works for component connection and made sure you put down 1080p under the video section and not anything else. You can adjust backlight by energy saver mode in plug and play menu.
post #426 of 663
Let me explain better. Yes... the COLOR and BRIGHTNESS levels are too bright, but the blacks are too black. Play something where you have to walk around in complete darkness with only a flashlight (and sometimes not even that). It's nearly impossible to see where your going & what you're doing.

And yes. I already have the correct settings on both the PS3 and the 650.
post #427 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

Let me explain better. Yes... the COLOR and BRIGHTNESS levels are too bright, but the blacks are too black. Play something where you have to walk around in complete darkness with only a flashlight (and sometimes not even that). It's nearly impossible to see where your going & what you're doing.

"Brightness" in television terms refers to the black levels, or amount of light in dark scenes.

In Game Mode with a very dark game (I play many), I can see minuet details in the blacks perfectly on this TV. A good example is Braid on the Xbox360... in the opening scene where the character is in the shadows under the lampost (outside the building), I can see a lot of very faint details in the very dark starry sky.

If you can't, there must be something wrong with the setup of your particular display... or maybe the panel itself.
post #428 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

Yes it's possible... I'm using a hdmi cable to the TV for video and the optical cable to my receiver for audio.

Why because my old ass surround sound receiver doesn't have hdmi ports lol.

So yea for VGA just get the Microsoft official cable which comes with the optical cable out.

Wait did you try game mode by pressing the e.mode button on your remote? It also works for component connection and made sure you put down 1080p under the video section and not anything else. You can adjust backlight by energy saver mode in plug and play menu.

I love you. You are my hero. This has been decided.

I thought game mode only worked with HDMI!! THANK YOUUUUUUUUUU
No waste of 50$!!!
post #429 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

"Brightness" in television terms refers to the black levels, or amount of light in dark scenes.

In Game Mode with a very dark game (I play many), I can see minuet details in the blacks perfectly on this TV. A good example is Braid on the Xbox360... in the opening scene where the character is in the shadows under the lampost (outside the building), I can see a lot of very faint details in the very dark starry sky.

If you can't, there must be something wrong with the setup of your particular display... or maybe the panel itself.

I REALLY need to buy a camera, lol. Try Silent Hill Origins, inside the Sanitarium.
post #430 of 663
This post is really interesting.

I have a 40a650 in spain 40LEa656 when i play socom in ps3 hdmi i see input lag, i try with game mode, but its really bad for me or for socom, its too dark although the input lag drecreased. I didnt know about the hdmi2 and pc mode, this is the solution for me, remove 720p of list ps3 and ps3 upscalin to 1080p, dont look great but the input lag is gone and dosent look bad. If hdmi 2 pc mode works in 720p will be amazing. I only use this settings in action or shoters online, i prefer decrease image quality for a better response. I really happy now my kill ratio increase from 2:1 to 3:1.

Sorry for my bad english im spanish and i try to learn but...
post #431 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopin952 View Post

Good thread. Does this apply to A630, A750, A850 and perhaps A950?

Yes i tried this in my 950. If you want to look at my input lag photos that i did with my sony vaio laptop you can go to the 9 series thead . I have the link posted below. I play socom on the PS3 now and like this thread points out it doesnt work because it is a 720p native format game. But it works when the PS3 is playing a 1080p game. I should also note that the adjustments and input lag are way better in pc mode than in game mode.

Anyhow here is the link
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15826054
post #432 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germinator_2PAC View Post

This post is really interesting.

I have a 40a650 in spain 40LEa656 when i play socom in ps3 hdmi i see input lag, i try with game mode, but its really bad for me or for socom, its too dark although the input lag drecreased. I didnt know about the hdmi2 and pc mode, this is the solution for me, remove 720p of list ps3 and ps3 upscalin to 1080p, dont look great but the input lag is gone and dosent look bad. If hdmi 2 pc mode works in 720p will be amazing. I only use this settings in action or shoters online, i prefer decrease image quality for a better response. I really happy now my kill ratio increase from 2:1 to 3:1.

Sorry for my bad english im spanish and i try to learn but...

Hahahah, your in the same boat as me.
I play socom too and game mode just doesnt look right on it. You cant see people in shadowed areas or on night maps. And labeling HDMI 2 as PC doesnt work because the game is native 720p . Ive tried everything to get the pc label trick to work. I went into the PS3 settings and disabled 720p and tried to force 1080p. When i tried that it worked sorta. You get black bars on the top and bottom with some of the image being cut off, so it really wasnt worth it. Man im pissed at slant six, why couldnt they just make socom 1080p.Anyhow its nice to know someone else with a sammy cant stand game mode on socom either.
post #433 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by epcortek View Post

Hahahah, your in the same boat as me.
I play socom too and game mode just doesnt look right on it. You cant see people in shadowed areas or on night maps. And labeling HDMI 2 as PC doesnt work because the game is native 720p . Ive tried everything to get the pc label trick to work. I went into the PS3 settings and disabled 720p and tried to force 1080p. When i tried that it worked sorta. You get black bars on the top and bottom with some of the image being cut off, so it really wasnt worth it. Man im pissed at slant six, why couldnt they just make socom 1080p.Anyhow its nice to know someone else with a sammy cant stand game mode on socom either.


I heard that socom supports 1080p....I guess I was wrong...but that is the problem with ps3 games...not many support 1080p therefore the hdmi/pc method wont work. the pc method will only work if the resolution coming from the ps3 is 1080p

it works great for 360 because it has an ingame scaler of 1080p for all games even if they are just native 720p

i use vga for 360 because the hdmi/pc method is a bit washed out for my liking and when i put it on vga it is pretty much the same but not as washed out for some reason...

i use my ps3 for the show and that supports 1080p and also killzone 2 supports 1080p therefore i can rename hdmi 2 to pc and play almost lag free...

picture wont be as nice as standard settings but is much better then game mode..

some people here like game mode but i for one hate it and think it is a joke because it makes things wayyyyyyyy to sharp and colors are to over saturated and to muddle...in the baseball game the field is suppose to be green but it looks closer to brown in game mode and looking at player models hurts my eyes with the horrible over the top sharpness along with having edge enhancement on..simply horrible

some games may not look as bad in game mode but the games i play which are mostly sports...is a joke and i cant deal with over done sharpness and muddle colors....

if your ps3 game runs only 720p then your only option is game mode so that sucks for ps3 gamers but it is what it is...

if the game can support 1080p then you can do the rename of hdmi 2 and be happy with lag free gaming...

me being a bigger 360 fan because that is where i game the most is not a big deal and this tv is great....due to the fact that all games support 1080p

i only play mlb the show on ps3 and watch blu ray movies only

if i was just a ps3 owner then this tv would be a no go for me....
post #434 of 663
Well, I'm just not satisfied with my 46A650. I called Sears and they will accept a return outside of the 30 days because it wasn't even delivered for 3 weeks after the purchase.

I'm not going to buy anything else until either the new 2009 Sony or Samsung models are out & reviewed. I'll just game on my old 27" CRT, not even flat screen.
post #435 of 663
Hi everyone,

I've seen this mentioned here and there a few times, but no one seems to be jumping up and down about the VGA port on the current Samsungs. It appears there are a lot of Xbox 360 gamers on here, but most people are using HDMI w/ PC mode... With the "zero lag" using VGA, I had thought there would be more people advocating it, but so far, not so much. Is it just the added cost of the Xbox VGA adapter that's turning people off, or am I missing something?

I don't have an AVR, so when I finally get a BD player, I'm considering freeing up one of the HDMI ports on the back of the TV (1 is currently used by the Xbox, the other by my cable box) by switching to VGA for the Xbox. What are the pros and cons of going VGA with the 360? Maybe I'd be better to switch the cable box over to component, and keep the Xbox on HDMI though?

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Doug
post #436 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

It appears there are a lot of Xbox 360 gamers on here, but most people are using HDMI w/ PC mode... With the "zero lag" using VGA, I had thought there would be more people advocating it, but so far, not so much. Is it just the added cost of the Xbox VGA adapter that's turning people off, or am I missing something?

You aren't missing anything, but in my situation:
-I have an actual PC connected to HDMI/DVI2 "PC Mode". It looks great!
-I prefer the sharpest picture available from my 360.
-I can't perceive the difference between the slight lag (we are talking milliseconds) in Game Mode vs. no lag in PC Mode.

All of this is, of course, YMMV.

I've thought about buying a VGA cable to see if I could get used to the softer PC mode. But every time the thought comes to mind, I stop and think "why would I want to give up the HDMI connection which works perfectly for me?".
post #437 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

Hi everyone,

I've seen this mentioned here and there a few times, but no one seems to be jumping up and down about the VGA port on the current Samsungs. It appears there are a lot of Xbox 360 gamers on here, but most people are using HDMI w/ PC mode... With the "zero lag" using VGA, I had thought there would be more people advocating it, but so far, not so much. Is it just the added cost of the Xbox VGA adapter that's turning people off, or am I missing something?

I don't have an AVR, so when I finally get a BD player, I'm considering freeing up one of the HDMI ports on the back of the TV (1 is currently used by the Xbox, the other by my cable box) by switching to VGA for the Xbox. What are the pros and cons of going VGA with the 360? Maybe I'd be better to switch the cable box over to component, and keep the Xbox on HDMI though?

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Doug

HDMI2/PC is very close to VGA mode and if you set your Xbox to 1080P you should have no issues at all.

The only real downside of VGA (with regards to input lag) is you need a separate connection for audio (may or not be an issue) and you would have to purchase the VGA adapter.

I have an Elite and have still considered snagging a VGA adapter but there just isn't a driving need since HDMI2/PC works very well.

If I had a non HDMI Xbox 360, I would order the VGA cable without a second thought.
post #438 of 663
A friend is bringing his PS3 over. We'll be playing most EA Sports games, maybe Guitar Hero and COD. Should I just plug into HDMI, adjust picture, and be good to go?
post #439 of 663
Thanks for the responses. So, from the sounds of it, VGA is nothing special? Did somebody do some testing with the VGA in comparison to HDMI for lag? I remember seeing the tests for HDMI, but not for VGA... Maybe I gapped. At the same time, though, I also thought I read (on here somewhere, actually) that the difference in input lag between VGA and non-Game Mode HDMI was quite a bit. Maybe I misunderstood what was going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

...
-I can't perceive the difference between the slight lag (we are talking milliseconds) in Game Mode vs. no lag in PC Mode.
... I've thought about buying a VGA cable to see if I could get used to the softer PC mode...

I've been using Game Mode for Wii, but for some reason I thought it looked too extreme when I tried it on the 360. I really only tried it for a minute or two though, to be honest. I think I'll give it another shot.

What's that about a "softer PC mode"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

HDMI2/PC is very close to VGA mode and if you set your Xbox to 1080P you should have no issues at all.
... I have an Elite and have still considered snagging a VGA adapter but there just isn't a driving need since HDMI2/PC works very well...

What are the differences, even if they are slight? I'm curious to know what they might be. Colour? Sharpness? TV Settings limitations? What is your reason for considering VGA?

Thanks again. Much appreciated!

Doug
post #440 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

What's that about a "softer PC mode"?

PC mode (HDMI/DVI2 input named "PC" with a 1080p source) has a softer image than Game Mode.
post #441 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

PC mode (HDMI/DVI2 input named "PC" with a 1080p source) has a softer image than Game Mode.

It's also softer than what you may be viewing under your non-gaming settings with Edge Enhancement off. This, I assume is why some consider PC Mode to be "blurry".
post #442 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

It's also softer than what you may viewing under your non-gaming settings with Edge Enhancement off. This, I assume is why some consider PC Mode to be "blurry".

Yes, I started to write a clarification on the term "softer", but decided it was going into unnecessary detail.

But since you brought it up:

-The "softer" term for PC Mode is not intended to be derogatory. It's not "blurry"... it looks great with a web browser with tiny fonts -- a blurry screen would not look good display things.

-Also, "edge enhancement" = bad with film viewing, but in game mode it looks totally appropriate to me... razor sharp and not noisy or artificial.
post #443 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Yes, I started to write a clarification on the term "softer", but decided it was going into unnecessary detail.

But since you brought it up:

-The "softer" term for PC Mode is not intended to be derogatory. It's not "blurry"... it looks great with a web browser with tiny fonts -- a blurry screen would not look good display things.

-Also, "edge enhancement" = bad with film viewing, but in game mode it looks totally appropriate to me... razor sharp and not noisy or artificial.

When I noticed the lack of any sharpness in PC Mode I assumed it had to do with providing more readable text, and hence a better desktop experience. But since the image is softer than my normal viewing settings, without using Edge Enhancement, this sort of tipped things in favor of Game Mode. Also it is easier to toggle in and out of Game Mode than PC Mode and I don't have to worry about a PS3 game supporting 1080p or 1080 scaling.
post #444 of 663
I'm trying to play my new PS3 on my LN40A650 and I am getting intermittent component dropout when 1080p output is selected. Sometimes it will say "mode not supported" and sometimes it will just flicker between content and black, like the t.v. is trying to figure out what resolution to use. I am running a brand new monoprice 1.3 category hdmi cable, but the same thing happened when I tried a component cable. This has happened when playing the fifa 2009 demo, when trying to access the video section of the ps3 online store, when viewing the 1080 Wall-E trailer that I downloaded, and when browsing the web and trying to zoom text. It has not happened when playing little big planet or guitar hero 3.

When switching the ps3 output to display up to 1080i and not 1080p, this issue completely disappears. So, is this an HDCP handshake issue with the 1080p or what? Will a firmware upgrade help? I bought the t.v. in October and it was worked flawlessly with digital cable.

Thoughts? Feelings? Concerns? Help? I'm kind of a noob with this stuff, so any advice would be appreciated.
post #445 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicoOnTheRocks View Post

I'm trying to play my new PS3 on my LN40A650 and I am getting intermittent component dropout when 1080p output is selected. Sometimes it will say "mode not supported" and sometimes it will just flicker between content and black, like the t.v. is trying to figure out what resolution to use. I am running a brand new monoprice 1.3 category hdmi cable, but the same thing happened when I tried a component cable. This has happened when playing the fifa 2009 demo, when trying to access the video section of the ps3 online store, when viewing the 1080 Wall-E trailer that I downloaded, and when browsing the web and trying to zoom text. It has not happened when playing little big planet or guitar hero 3.

When switching the ps3 output to display up to 1080i and not 1080p, this issue completely disappears. So, is this an HDCP handshake issue with the 1080p or what? Will a firmware upgrade help? I bought the t.v. in October and it was worked flawlessly with digital cable.

Thoughts? Feelings? Concerns? Help? I'm kind of a noob with this stuff, so any advice would be appreciated.



More and more I'm starting to believe the ps3 is iffy when it comes to 1080p since this also happens to not only Samsung TVs but also other TVs as well and even Sonys own TVs which is funny. Google it and you see many with this issue and even happen on mine.

Only thing is that mine only happen twice over 3 months, but you seem to make it out that it happens too many times which is problem. Did you try to click the option where it automatically switches what is best for the TV?

I see ps3 is doing something fishy when it comes to 1080p over games and the dashboard and still believe Sony screwed up big time when it came to having an internal scaler like the 360.

The 360 itself never gave me any problems with 1080p with hdmi at all and many Sony fanboys in the beginning touted their 1080p feature and look whos having the problem with it funny right haha...
post #446 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

It's also softer than what you may be viewing under your non-gaming settings with Edge Enhancement off. This, I assume is why some consider PC Mode to be "blurry".

That's the reason why I don't like PC mode when I tried it out. It looks way to blurry because the image is like it has the sharpness below 0 with edge enhancement off.

If anyone noticed that in PC mode movie mode sharpness is at 20, standard mode is at 50 and dynamic mode is at 75 but the funny thing is that there is no difference in it's sharpness its exactly the same when I did a test on a image.

The only difference between each mode is movie mode uses color space auto which the colors look less colorful while the standard mode is color space native which makes the colors a little more colorful.








The dynamic mode has DNIe off but I would have to assume it is using native color space but who knows.

The only thing is that dynamic mode in PC Mode the color is set at 55 where the others is at 50 which makes it more colorful then everything else.

So I have to believe that in either mode sharpness is set to a different degree to each PC mode (movie,standard,dyanmic) to have an outcome that is the same set sharpness for pc use.

75, 50, 20 in pc mode it don't matter since the outcome is the same which is doing what is meant for pc use where the text is done right.
post #447 of 663
Too bad Dynamic locks out Detailed Settings and so you can't take advantage of the Color setting of 55, under PC Mode. I find that if, under Standard, I back down the Contrast to 80 on put Dynamic Contrast on Low I can get the same sort of color output in PC Mode that Game Mode offers. Sort of a nice option as I normally like to use a Backlight of 4 and leave Energy Savings Off and since I do 90% of my gaming on the 360. To incorporate Game Mode I have to set Energy Savings to Medium which means the Backlight has to be upped to 7, which I can make work. I tend to flip flop between PC Mode and Game Mode as my preference for gaming.
post #448 of 663
Dynamic Contrast makes PC Mode even darker than the already too dark Game Mode is. No idea why anyone would use that feature for ANYthing. It completely crushes blacks. PC Mode on any setting is much better than Game Mode, doesn't look blurry to me at all. I think people are used to their image being over sharp, over saturated, and over everything.

If you HAD to choose between one or the other... would you take PC Mode or Game Mode?

Edit: Regarding the PS3s 1080p over HDMI - I've never had one single issue with dropouts or anything of the sort. Only once, the very first time I connected it & I had to hold the power button down to restart the PS3. Since then it was flawless.

I'll have to fill you all in when I get the LN46B650 when it comes out - that is - if I decide to go with Samsung again. The 55" Vizio LED LCD is going to cost nearly half of what the 2009 55" Samsung LED LED will cost & about the same as the 2009 non LED Samsung 46".
post #449 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

Dynamic Contrast makes PC Mode even darker than the already too dark Game Mode is. No idea why anyone would use that feature for ANYthing. It completely crushes blacks. PC Mode on any setting is much better than Game Mode, doesn't look blurry to me at all. I think people are used to their image being over sharp, over saturated, and over everything.

If you HAD to choose between one or the other... would you take PC Mode or Game Mode?

Edit: Regarding the PS3s 1080p over HDMI - I've never had one single issue with dropouts or anything of the sort. Only once, the very first time I connected it & I had to hold the power button down to restart the PS3. Since then it was flawless.

I'll have to fill you all in when I get the LN46B650 when it comes out - that is - if I decide to go with Samsung again. The 55" Vizio LED LCD is going to cost nearly half of what the 2009 55" Samsung LED LED will cost & about the same as the 2009 non LED Samsung 46".

If I had to choose between game mode and pc mode hell yea I rather game on game mode lol. Personally I don't like too much color I'm the opposite I lower it, the custom settings I'm using have the color set to 48 which is lower than other calibrations for HD/360 gaming. Its not so much that the color needs to be upped on the pc mode but it's just done weird similar to when upping the gamma high or something (washed out).

The sharpness I don't know I have my custom settings set at 30 and game mode seems to just get the right sharpness like my custom setting which for the games that would matter in terms of input lag that people bother about when I was messing around with it like COD4, and Halo3.

I also agree that dynamic contrast low on and lowered contrast on pc mode actually has the blacks really crushed compared to game mode which the blacks are not that crushed compared to pc mode dynamic contrast low.

I don't know maybe different TVs with different firmwares the game mode doesn't look good while on others its pretty good who knows?!?
post #450 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

Too bad Dynamic locks out Detailed Settings and so you can't take advantage of the Color setting of 55, under PC Mode. I find that if, under Standard, I back down the Contrast to 80 on put Dynamic Contrast on Low I can get the same sort of color output in PC Mode that Game Mode offers. Sort of a nice option as I normally like to use a Backlight of 4 and leave Energy Savings Off and since I do 90% of my gaming on the 360. To incorporate Game Mode I have to set Energy Savings to Medium which means the Backlight has to be upped to 7, which I can make work. I tend to flip flop between PC Mode and Game Mode as my preference for gaming.

I agree dynamic mode in pc mode would of been better than standard mode if one had access to gamma,white balance and possibly color space setting but oh well.

I'm telling you its pretty nice having everything higher to just leave energy saver mode at medium.
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