Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread - Page 18

Scroll down to the the HD Console Gaming section:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-LE...re-Quality.htm

That's nice but they don't mention on how they tested it; i hope it wasn't rockband 2 test lol.

What Sony TVs were they talking about when comparing it to this new B series?

The game mode was 34ms of input lag while VGA was 17ms of input lag in their review if anyone wants to know.

I did the tests on Shoryuken that are being talked about. I did them to defend the findings of the tests here with a true CRT control. At the end of the day we found non native vga to be 16ms and native to be 8. Just about the same as this test. I'd be happy to send the post format so that my test there can be added front page on this thread as well.

Cool so basically it's against a CRT which is less than 1ms of input lag so in vga it is 8ms. That is really low I'm surprised some people notice it to affect their gameplay.

just checked out that forum pretty good.

Good thread, just finished reading most of it (skimmed redundant posts). Anyway, my wife and I just bought the LN52A650 to replace our 1 year old HP-T5054 plasma (moved to our bedroom) and we are pretty happy with it.

I have my Xbox 360 connected via VGA while digital out goes my receiver. We stream Netflix via the 360 and it looks great when presented in HD. I'm a little disappointed I can't turn on AMP for movies via VGA, but the picture quality is outstanding regardless, and no lag for gaming is a must.

Now my Wii on the other had, doesn't look so great in Game Mode connected with components. I'm wondering if Game Mode can be tweaked through the service menu?

So what would the drawbacks be of getting a 60Hz LN46B550? What does a 120Hz add that is really necessary? I can live without AMP because I very rarely use it anyway, but do the newer 60Hz sets really have that much blur, judder, or whatever?

Overall, wouldn't getting a new 60Hz set make much more sense than either a 120Hz or 240Hz? The lag would be less, and the contrast ratio on the B550 is higher than the A650.

Hi everyone. Just a quick question as I'm very close to buying a Samsung A550, and I'm a serious gamer.


Is it widely believed that the 120mhz processing is the reason for this input lag on the A650 model? Therefore, is it safe to conclude that the A550 will be just fine for a serious gamer, since it doesn't have that processing?

I already own a small A450, and it's been great for gaming.



Thanks for any help.

It's not just 120hz processing that gives off the input lag but other processing in a HDTV but yes with 120hz TVs it does basically add more processing.

Many believed and myself included that Game Mode and PC mode besides just turning off some processing in the TV to reduce input lag but also, however it does it, turns off this 120hz processing which could explain Auto Motion not even being available to turn on because it can't work without the TV refreshing at 120hz. For example all other 120hz TV Game Mode's also disables their 'Motion Enhancer' tech.

I won't be surprised that the a650 on VGA or HDMI2/PC mode is about the same as Game Mode on the a550.

My honest opinion a650 Game Mode could of been faster in the input lag tests(probably the same as HDMI2/PC) if dynamic contrast and edge enhancement was set to off in Game Mode.

Also why is this thread called LNXXA650 when the a650 below 40" is not the same hardware wise as the 40"-52" a650???

I was specifically wanting to know if the A550 has less input lag. In other words, is it a better gaming tv than the A650 if this sort of things concerns me?

According the OP's testing, the 46/52A650 with an Xbox360 connected via VGA has the following lag:

Average lag: 0-8ms
0.0-0.5 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.3 Frame (~a third of a frame)
59.7 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.


I don't have the facts, but I doubt the A550 can beat that.

Well I haven't seen no tests to prove it really is lower in input lag than a650 but since the issue is 120hz TVs usually have more input lag in them compared to 60hz TVs because of extra processing so I would assume it would be lower.

Well I'm talking about when not running PC mode/Game Mode; when running regular modes the 120hz TVs should have higher input lag because of the extra processing.

It probably will be about the same if the a550 gets put in a PC mode. Well I do believe PC mode and Game Mode in the a650 is not refreshing at 120hz so it is one of the processing that's off so it could result in the a550 being similar when in PC mode.

I have no idea for their Game Mode since I'm not sure a550 game mode has dynamic contrast and edge enhancement set on like in a650.

The first bit of advice I can give you is to get either a B550 or B650. You'll be disappointed either way if you get an 'A' model because of the pq lockouts in Game Mode...unless you REALLY liked the look of Game Mode on your A450. The new 'B' series allows for basic pq adjustments in Game Mode & also boasts a pretty good increase in contrast ratio from last years models. If you plan to watch any Blu-Rays on it then go for the B650, if just for gaming then grab the B550.

Regarding lag, I don't think it would be noticeable for either of the two in Game Mode. If the A/B550 has ANY less lag then the A/B650 - I'm 95% sure it's undetectable with the human eye.

If anyone cares... some dude posted up input lag tests on a sony z4100, samsung a750, and toshiba 540u.


"I'm not just picking on Toshiba here... infact I'm about to give a little shock to some die hard Sony fans who are in complete denial that their 120hz sets lag possible the most out of all that I've tested! Many don't believe a Samsung can be faster and I'm trying to make them realize uhhh.. YES, I can FEEL it with my mouse movements AND I can prove it with numbers such as these (remember I'm only talking bout some... others are more objective and just want to know the truth):

Samsung 750 hdmi2-pc vs Sony z4100 Hdmi1-pc and game mode enabled:

















Last edited by KVW; Today at 06:22 AM..


It's late and I shoulda went to bed ALONG time ago but I went ahead and uploaded some of my pics of my 540u hdmi game vs Samsung a750 vga - I have a bunch of Toshiba vs Sony as well.

Samsung a750 VGA vs Tosiba 540u Game mode

























The Toshiba appears to be one frame behind. Ain't bad mind you ... but according to AVS forum, Samsung is *suppose* to be one of the laggest lcd you could use and it was stated by some ppl here that a Toshiba was faster than a Samsung. I read these and just have to wonder, how are they coming up with this, go rent both and test them for yourself.

BTW just fyi, no panel has beaten my GF's LZ800 or the LZ85 I rented as far as lag. Those pannys are the closest thing to a CRT that I know of ATM. To bad they don't have any motion handling or 120hz options. They also have a RED push and don't give you any options to tune it out (like you can with the Toshiba's green push)."

Well to be honest is there a really a difference from running PC mode on the Sony TV compared to running their Game Mode??? I haven't noticed anyone talked about that. He was comparing the Samsung in PC mode which is faster in the tests compared to Game Mode.

Game Modes on both is what i saw and didn't see too much of a difference sometimes sony winning out by a few and some other pics Samsung winning out.

To be honest if the game mode is set right in the Sony it should be a little faster than Samsung's Game Mode since we all know it has Dynamic Contrast and Edge Enhancement on so that will make Game Mode on the Samsung a little slower than the other 120hz TVs Game Modes when you set them without Dynamic Contrast.

Well this like a better test well not knowing how much input lag in total but which one is specifically faster. Run the input lag test on both TVs your looking at instead of individually against a CRT monitor. The point is which one out of them is faster. This method could lead to lessen the different variances in the tests when switching around or maybe not lol.

*EDIT* No one has mentioned if using any Energy Saver Modes increases input lag; if so it can make some results different since one may have it on or another may have it off.

Sony's can have their inputs labeled to PC like samsung, this does not effect lag on the display. In my tests of my 32xbr6 changing settings does not dramatically change the input lag like it does on samsungs.

in my testing setting game mode on my sony does speed up the response slightly.
in game mode on 1080p or 720p on component or HDMI and also in photo mode i get readings around 40ms lag (31-52ms in my readings)

without game mode at those resolutions I get 50-60 ms lag

and lastly, and samsung cant beat this one svideo input (480i for the old school consoles) game mode is 50ms average (41-62ms in my readings)

if my readings are correct i'm not sure how you guys can notice lag in the 30-40ms range, I cannot see this on my TV while playing ANY game or moving my mouse in windows, I use the TV as a monitor and the lag does not bother me at all, only if i run a console in composite input and try hard to tell in non game mode I can see a slight lag in controls (never tested composite not in game mode but its more than 60ms most likely, game mode is around 50ms average)

oh, and i have used a TV that had horrid input lag, it was an insignia 32" 720p set, it was extremely noticeable and very annoying i never tested it but needless to say it went straight back where it came from for more than one reason lol

I would like to see this tested against HDMI GAME mode / 720p.

So if I buy a HDMI/DVI cable for my PS3 I know it will Improve gaming experience. Will it affect my DVD/BLU-RAY movies on Picture quality and tweaking?

Hello,

I'm really considering this TV for my basement, but I have a few concerns that some of you may be able to help me with. First off let me say that the TV will be used for maybe 75% gaming and 25% regular viewing. I'm a 49 year old kid that loves to play X-box 360 games, I love a wide variety of games, but mostly first person shooters. The TV that I'm currently using is a 12 year old 26" Curtis Mathis CRT. I know I'm missing out on a lot using this old TV, but I don't have any motion blur problems like I read about on these forums. For example when I played call of duty 4 on my CRT, and I was doing the bombing mission I could pan back and fourth looking at the ground and everything looked clear. I went to a friend's house who had a 1 year old Panasonic 50" plasma, it was the top of the line in 07, and during this same bombing mission when I would pan around everything was a blur. I will say that I used the X-box 360, and He had PS3. I haven't been able to use an LCD to compare, but am I going to have this same blur issue with the LN52A650 just like the Panasonic plasma had ? Would I be better of just trying to find a used 36" crt for gaming, or would I be happy with the LCD?

You will like the tv. There may be some amount of blur, but honestly, its not that much to make a difference. The bigger impact will be from the 16:9 aspect ratio, brighter colors and overall awesomeness.

I have the xbox connected with the VGA cable and have been happy with it.

you will probably be more annoyed with the fact that you can't find the power button or input select buttons on the side of the TV in the dark.

Thanks for the reply,

It's pretty hard to read the small wording on a lot of the games with my old tv, so I know the clarity alone of the new LCD would be a great plus.

+1

I went from a fairly modern 60" rear-projection LCD HDTV to this 46"A650 LCD panel (different room, sitting closer), mostly for gaming and some TV/movie watching. I love improvement -- deeper blacks, sharp/clear image, and colors that pop. I see absolutely no motion blur, and I play a lot of different types of games.

I don't think a used 36" SD crt can touch this TV, except for price. If you connect your 360 via HDMI, set for 1080p and switch the TV's HDMI mode to "normal" and game mode, I think you'll be amazed at how good it looks. That is, as long as you aren't sensitive to sharp edges (aka "jaggies") because the image is razor sharp -- something that might take some time to get used to based on what you are coming from.

Very minor nitpick notes: as odiggity said, everything on this TV needs to be done from the remote because the buttons on the TV are impossible to find. I have some very minor backlighting inconsistency, only noticeable on a no-input screen. Lastly, the colors wash out on extreme off-angle side viewing -- thankfully the TV is easy to rotate on its stand.

Good luck with your choice!

Yo DaverJ there has been talks about YCbCr 709 HDMI Color Space being better to use than RGB for the 360.

I've tried it out on YCbCr 709 with Standard Reference Level on both GAME MODE and custom settings and it looks better in Call of Duty 4 and the other games I've tried.

Just letting you know...