Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread - Page 20

Yeah, I played with the Energy Saving mode quite a bit. I tried all the settings, and I can definitely see how it affects the brightness, but... (read on...)


It's not really the brightness that's the issue. Mirror's Edge is indeed a bright game, and every monitor/screen I've played it on faithfully keep it BRIGHT. (I've tried it on 4 different screens.) The problem with the A650 is the contrast and the artifacts that are created because of the contrast. Maybe "contrast" isn't even the right word (or maybe Samsung's quoted Game Mode contrast is incorrect?), but something happens in Game Mode that makes the edges look jagged (and even creates bad colors / artifacts). I should've taken a picture to explain what I meant, but unfortunately I didn't think to bring my camera. Here's my "artist's rendition" (using Photoshop) of what it looked like though:

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/v...rsEdgeA650.jpg

The top picture is Mirror's Edge on three other TVs that I've tried it on. The bottom picture is Mirror's Edge on the A650. Contrast? Sharpness? Eye-hurting jagged edges? I'm not sure what the appropriate adjective is, but that's what Mirror's Edge looked like to me in Game Mode on the A650. Admittedly, this is a PHOTOSHOP APPROXIMATION, so the effect is inherently estimated/exaggerated. But it's honestly not that much of an exaggeration. It was pretty darn bad.


I personally found the lag to be too much in Movie mode and Standard mode for Mirror's Edge and MGS4, but I fully admit that there are probably games where it doesn't matter at all. And probably gamers for which it doesn't matter at all. Anyone who's shopping and concerned: Take your system into Best Buy and set it up on the TV and try it out. You'll be able to tell instantly if it bothers you or not. Unfortunately, there simply isn't a concrete answer here in the forums. Everyone has a different threshold/tolerance for lag.

I see it does look like sharpness is a little high with edge enhancement on which would give it artifacts that people complain about on any TV when sharpness is super high. I tried it again on my TV it ain't look that.

Besides it's the effect of dynamic contrast+sharpness high+edge enhancement that ends up giving like a shine to stuff and anything white could be annoying in general. I can mimic that picture with the stock dynamic mode on my TV though but not my Game Mode. Dynamic mode uses sharpness at 75 with DNIe which uses it's own ideas of edge enhancing but probably just the same crap as turning on edge enhancement and with sharpness at 75 it definitely starts looking shiny and jagged on my TV.

Even though Game Mode uses dynamic contrast also it uses it better than any choice I have with it on standard on either low, medium, or high even with contrast set on 80 like Game Mode is locked on and came to the conclusion on my set that Game Mode with the supposed locked settings are also tampered with and can't achieve it on my own on movie mode or standard when both on normal color tone like Game Mode.

Luckily for me every offline game the lag don't even bother me and for online games I could see it now the lag it has on my custom settings but Game Mode completely brings it to virtually non-detectable for me.

I even tried to get used to the crappy HDMI2/PC mode for the 'reduced lag' on Call of Duty 4 and SuperStreetFighter2TurboHD Remix and then turn on Game Mode after playing a whole session of online matches on each specific game. Only on Call of Duty 4 I slightly felt it only testing it when spinning around and barely but give me another a minute or two and I couldn't see the difference at all I guess it went away or it was in my head.

Ironically when getting used to Game Mode and then go to HDMI2/PC mode I didn't notice it get any faster at all and no matter what I did strange. One thing though is that I have Dynamic Contrast off on my custom settings and have AMP. Digital NR Reduction and other crap off on my set so lag is lowest it can be when not in Game Mode.

I'm going have to start taking some pictures comparing my custom settings vs Game Mode on my TV on Call of Duty 4, SSFighterTHDREMix, and Devil May Cry 4 to show you how it looks on mine. I just need to practice on shooting properly with the camera.

Just to point out also that on the 360 it looked better with YCbCr709 HDMI Color Space setting+Standard Reference Level instead of RGB with Expanded or Standard Reference Level properly match to the TV.

That looks like a Sony TV with sharpness set really low like at 0 the way it looks all blurred out like that to be honest if it ain't Sony then I'll be darned lol possibly plasma TV... Judging by that you liked that blurry look you will probably like stuff with sharpness at 0 with edge enhancement off. You might like HDMI2/PC mode but the level of detail is also lower than non-PC mode so I don't know.

*EDIT* looking at the picture more it looks like it has a warmer color tone too maybe also... tell me if I'm right lol that would help out in making the whites not look so over bright either...

I just want to say that this TV would be the best TV EVER if game mode was the same image quality as HDMI2/PC mode. Stupid Samsung, I hate you.

Whoa what are you smoking??? HDMI2/PC mode has the level of detail wayy down. If anything you should of meant game mode to allow one to customize like they want while being able to achieve what's possible when just in movie mode or standard mode.

Besides what's the problem you can use HDMI2/PC mode on the 360 easily no matter what and a PC. If PS3 most of the 'good" games are 1080p anyways but blame Sony for their lack of a internal scaler.

I use the PC mode with my A850. The PQ is noticeably better than game mode and it's not locked to a certain backlight + brightness. I've been playing with PC mode and have it almost looking as good as regular HDMI by adjusting the white balance/contrast/gamma. It's a shame they don't let us adjust sharpness + color as well but it's pretty close.

Game Mode is horrible PQ. Connect your PC through HDMI2/PC and set it to 720p Standard Mode and look at text and/or the mouse or anything with fine detail. Personally I used CoD:WaW and text in a text document for testing.

In the case of CoD:WaW, I was ingame facing a barbed wire fence. At 720p (Standard, non-PC mode) the barbed wire looked fantastic. Switching to Game Mode, the wire had a halo-ish outline.

On the desktop, text and (even the mouse itself!) had a similar halo-ish outline. Furthermore, the text exhibited a "jagged" look to it.

Of course, at 1080p PC mode none of these problems exist. But this begs the question, why in the hell can't one go into PC mode at 720p?

As you have stated, I should just connect my Xbox 360 and PC to the HDMI2 input and leave it at that. But this doesn't solve the problem with 720p PS3 games, it doesn't solve the problem with the Wii (which arguably needs the low input lag of Game Mode more than any other platform due to the twitch friendly Smash Brawl and games that revolve around using the pointer) and it also means that I would have to constantly change the cable every single time I want to play either the 360, PS3 or PC. Not to mention I would need to run my PC games at 1080p resolution - no easy task for my computer.

I shouldn't have to do this, and I'm not going to. Strictly as a TV for watching movies and TV programs, this TV is almost (if not) the best there is. Unfortunately, as a gaming panel it fails in my opinion. I was fortunate enough to get it for just AU$900 but I have decided that this TV will be going in the paper on Thursday and I'm buying an AQUOS that has Game Mode with customizable settings. Now if only those Sharp GP3's were available in Australia...

While I'm in the criticizing attitude, why in the hell does this TV take so long to turn on? In fact, it takes ages to switch sources as well. Is this normal? My old Sharp LC32D62U turned on almost instantly and changed between sources in about a second.

Well obviously if your talking about using it as a PC then yes PC mode looks pretty ok but it sucks balls when I tried on the xbox 360. PC mode is made for the PC in which it purpose was to have text in the PC look right. That is what it was for that's it!!!

Using anything else than PC mode in a PC is bad because the text looks bad regardless if its movie mode standard mode or game mode.

Yes it does have a nice anti-aliasing thing going on but I doubt it is doing what the real thing does its more like an extreme blurring applied to the image to look smooth. This will be ok if one sits far from the TV like when you do for crappy SD material but not for HD viewing distances.

It is more blurry than when not on HDMI2/PC mode with either modes with sharpness at 0 with edge enhancement off. Look at the PC mode with either movie mode (sharpness at 20), standard mode (sharpness at 50), dynamic mode (sharpness at 75). See something strange there is no difference in sharpness with either mode even though all 3 have different values for sharpness.

All those modes have been tailored made with numbers in sharpness like the out of box settings but something been changed on to be exactly the same in sharpness because the purpose of it was for text to look right. It was not made to be used as a lower input lag mode or anything outside of a PC. Could explain it don't work well when not in 1080p because with almost all PC you should be able to put down 1080p mode (1920x1080) with even todays built in graphics chips.



Regardless like I said the worse thing about it is the level of detail is way lower than that of when not in PC mode. Its like the game is set to 1920x1080 and everything set high except for textures/texture resolution in the game has been set to low and when not in PC mode it is like its on high. That's best way I can explain it to a PC gamer.

For PC gaming and pretty much PC use I do use HDMI2/PC mode since it looks alright for gaming in it and the text is perfect like it was made for PC. Game mode/Video mode (movie mode/standard mode) is for anything other than PC use.

Jumping on this threat... which is better. Plugging my xbox360(non-HDMI box) directly using the VGA cable to the back of my Samsung LN46A650, and then use the optical out to my Yamaha Rx-V863 receiver. OR just plug my component cable w/optical cable into my receiver, and then just run another component cable to the TV? Which is the less in lag?

vga

Does the VGA go up to 1080P? Any pros/cons verses each other?

the xbox does 1080p over component and 1920x1080 over vga, which is the same thing.

they are basically the same analog signal, except that the vga includes vertical sync. for gaming the vga would be better. you can get the cable from ebay < $10. The problem is the audio, you need to convert the rca to 3.5mm. you can get a cable at radioshack that goes from rca to 3.5mm then you need female to female rca adapter to couple the 2 cables output.

Input lag wise VGA 1080p is slightly faster than component 1080p game mode. Picture quality wise VGA has a lot of the TV processing that is associated with giving a good image. So you will see less than stellar picture quality compared to component 1080p.

The problem will be this try out both hell instead you probably already have component cables so try them out first. Try out some settings in the calibration thread for xbox 360. Or just use auto colorspace put contrast at 100 and have color at around 50 and brightness at around 45 with gamma at 0 and tint leave it alone. Everything else up to you.

Second would be try out Entertainment Game Mode to see if you like how that looks for games. Or try it out if you want lower input lag (less controller lag).

If you hate the picture of Game Mode and need low input lag then try out VGA. The options are limited in what you can change and it has like a washed out soft looking image then when not using VGA.

Or if you curious buy some cheap quality VGA cable and try it out regardless it is up to your eyes to see which looks better.

In general VGA is better than component but not in the case in this TV when VGA turns off most of the processing that the TV does to make a 'good' picture.

*EDIT* AMP is not available when using the VGA or when in Entertainment Game Mode. You also can't go into Game Mode while using VGA either.

I just bought the VGA. I love how smooth it moves. Esp, since all i play is COD and guitar hero. Got my cal in guitar hero to 43mm. Thou, I do have the hallo kinda haze. I did not have this issue when i was using my component cables. I have the non-HDMI xbox as well. Is there any good settings for the TV as far color, contrast, balance., ect. while using the VGA cable? I see almost all the settings for HDMI and component cables.

also interested in some settings for vga. Thanks in advance.

I think felonyr301's posts are all too confusing for most people.

He thinks VGA and HDMI2/PC offer a worse picture with less detail than any other mode. This is a half truth.

VGA and HDMI2/PC mode offer the BEST picture compared to the other modes because they only show you the detail in the picture as is. They don't offer all the image processing as the other modes which ADD detail that isn't there to begin with.

VGA and HDMI2/PC mode are the BEST choices if you're gaming, hands down, because of the reduction in input lag. (In the case of VGA, little to no input lag.)

If you're using a 360, with your output set to 1920x1080, VGA is where you want to be. No ifs, ands, or buts.

If you're using a PS3 or PC, HDMI2/PC mode with 1080p selected as your output format is where you want to be. (You may run into some color range problems using HDMI2/PC with a 720P PS3 game if you have the color range set to full RGB, so you may just want to plug the PS3 into another HDMI port and just leave the color range at the limited setting so you don't have to keep tweaking it from full to limited... you'll just have to accept the fact that there isn't much you can do on the PS3 as far as reducing input lag other than to use game mode with the terrible oversaturated and oversharpened picture...)

Oh really...

I have an old CRT PC monitor that I used the VGA cable to play the 360 to the old CRT PC monitor. What processing does that old piece of crap have nothing but compared to the TV in HDMI2/PC mode the old CRT looks better when both are in the same resolution. Now when both are in the same resolution but the TV is not PC mode both have the same level of detail in the image. Differences of contrast and brightness is nothing but the level of detail is the same.

I say get an old CRT PC monitor and connect it to a 360 with the vga cable and set the resolution the same as the TV and compare the picture with PC mode (HDMI2/PC or VGA) and not PC mode on the TV versus the CRT PC monitor and you tell me how it is.

Which connection reduces ghosting?

I agree 100%. Pure image always wins against artificial settings.

I tried to use the vga cable and it was impossible for me to make the sound work, I mean, from the TV output to my system

Audio is not passed through the VGA cable. You'll need to use the another audio method for sound, like the dongle to connect an optical cable.

Love this thread!

thanks for the info.

Decided to purchase a 360 VGA cable for my 360 (thanks for the link, cost me $11 including shipping) from monoprice.

Well, got it for 2 reason really. Can plug it into my computer monitor also, for times I want to watch the game and play or something.

Very informative thread, but I have a question. Currently I have my 360 plugged into HDMI 2, running as "PC", which is the ONLY way for me to play since the lag in game mode or with AMP on (labeled NOT PC) is unbearable.

Now, for my PS3, I don't really know what to do here..... I feel like game mode is the only way, but even then it looks like crap. Is there anything that can be done to make the PS3 + the 650 work as a gaming combination? It's kind-of driving me bananas.

A third-party VGA cable (not sure how good this would look), a fast external scaler, or a new TV.

I didn't think you could connect the PS3 via VGA?

There are a few, but like I said, unofficial and third party. I have no idea how they look, pretty questionable I imagine.