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another black border problem

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, for the first time last night I tried to connect my nvidia 9600GSO card to my 42" Philips using component cables. Regardless of the resolution I choose (I would prefer 1920x1080), I still get a 2 inch black border around it. I've spent the entire night reading about the overscan/underscan problem but I have not been able to fix it.

Could you please tell me what to do, what drivers to use (I've tried 4-5 forceware drivers) I've tried the "resolution within a resolution" feature in powerstrip (and it won't allow me to select the whole thing), I just don't know what to do anymore! Please help!
post #2 of 23
Which model Phillips?
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
The model is 42TA648BX. When I try the resize feature of the Nvidia Control Panel, it can only shrink the image and implicitly increase the black border.

Also, the image is not sharp, behind the windows and text there's like a shade towards the right. Thank you!!!
post #4 of 23
Sounds like underscan. I don't know about Nvidia, but there should be an underscan slider that will fix it. Are you sure your set will accept 1920x1080 over component?

Is HDMI an option? Your best bet should be HDMI, desktop set to 1920x1080 and TV set to dot for dot or just scan or whatever philips calls it.

BB
post #5 of 23
Does your model have "unscaled" mode (some phillips do and some don't) - if so, this is recommended for PC use.
Also, the manual indicates that HDMI is the preferred connection for PC using the HDMI 3 input. Also, page 23 shows some menu settings to change the mode to "PC"

Not sure if you've done these things or not-good start though

Best guess is that it just doesn't support connecting your PC through the component input - you might be able to fake it with a lot of effort-but the results still won't be as good (no 1:1 pixel mapping for one) as doing it the recommended way.
post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockytt View Post

Does your model have "unscaled" mode (some phillips do and some don't) - if so, this is recommended for PC use.
Yes it does and when I select it, the border gets thicker
Also, the manual indicates that HDMI is the preferred connection for PC using the HDMI 3 input.BigBird said the same thing. The problem is that I am using 2 monitors and I would have to get behind the desk to unplug one of them and to plug in the DVI to HDMI connector. Is there another solution to this? I mean this would be my best bet but how do I use 2 monitors and one TV on a regular card

Also, page 23 shows some menu settings to change the mode to "PC"
I read that and I don't have that option in my menu

Also, what could be the reason for the shade behind all text, windows, icons etc? Thank you for all your suggestions!
post #7 of 23
Quote:


Also, page 23 shows some menu settings to change the mode to "PC"
I read that and I don't have that option in my menu

You'll only get that on the HDMI input(s) I believe - not the componenent one.

The shading is most likely due to the scaling that your card is having to do-if you can get the pixels to display 1:1 it wouldn't happen.

As far as being able to control 3 different monitors separately, not sure how that would work.(?)
Just for kicks you might plug in the HDMI cable and see how it works. If you can make it display properly you will at least know that your tv can display a proper picture from your HTPC.
It's entirely possible that you can't do what you're trying to do with the equipment you have.
post #8 of 23
Confused here. 3 HDMI inputs on the TV but you can't use HDMI because.......? Are you using both DVI outs on your card to 2 monitors and the dongle with component out to the TV? If so you are probably only getting 800x600 to the TV. If you want 3 monitors of HD you need to add another video card. The 9600 can do SLI and if your mobo supports SLI you can do what you want to 4 monitors.

BB
post #9 of 23
DA29,
What is the native resolution of your TV if it is a digtial technology TV.
What resolution are you trying to send 1080p or 1080i?
You should be able to send 1080i over component without using any custom resolutions or using powerstrip. However, when you do this your TV may overscan the input unless it is the ability to disable overscan. As you found out the NVIDIA resize option is only for creating underscanned output for TVs that always overscan their component or HDMI input.
post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbird999 View Post

Confused here. 3 HDMI inputs on the TV but you can't use HDMI because.......? Are you using both DVI outs on your card to 2 monitors and the dongle with component out to the TV? If so you are probably only getting 800x600 to the TV. If you want 3 monitors of HD you need to add another video card. The 9600 can do SLI and if your mobo supports SLI you can do what you want to 4 monitors.
BB

I don't want to use all three at the same time, but I would like to have both monitors and the TV plugged in at the same time (without having to buy another card and have them in SLI mode). This is because it it pretty hard to get to the back of the pc, especially for my wife. I will be switching from 2 monitors to 1 monitor + 1 tv via software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

DA29,
What is the native resolution of your TV if it is a digtial technology TV.
What resolution are you trying to send 1080p or 1080i?
You should be able to send 1080i over component without using any custom resolutions or using powerstrip. However, when you do this your TV may overscan the input unless it is the ability to disable overscan. As you found out the NVIDIA resize option is only for creating underscanned output for TVs that always overscan their component or HDMI input.

The TV is 1080i and I am sending 1080i. So given the fact that the nVidia people are too lazy to address this issue, you're saying that there's no way to overscan? Would switching from component to HDMI resolve this problem.

I mean all the people on this area of the forum connect their HTPCs to their HDTVs, and let's say 50% have nvidia cards. Under what circumstances do you get a fully stretched image on your TV?
post #11 of 23
You never want to ovesrcan(zoom in on at and loose part of the screen) your output which is why there is no option to do that. You do want to want to send 1080i as is with no changes.
You say you have 2 monitors and the TV, how are the montors connected and configured?
Is there any possibility that you are using clone mode instead of extenced desktop mode with monitors running at a resolution < 1920x1080 on a VGA splitter?
What resolution is your PC desktop set to?
post #12 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

You never want to ovesrcan(zoom in on at and loose part of the screen) your output which is why there is no option to do that. You do want to want to send 1080i as is with no changes.
I understand, so what do I do with the black border then? Oh, nVidia Control panel gives you the option to make the border gray...happy day!

You say you have 2 monitors and the TV, how are the montors connected and configured?
Is there any possibility that you are using clone mode instead of extenced desktop mode with monitors running at a resolution < 1920x1080 on a VGA splitter?
What resolution is your PC desktop set to?
I have 2 19" monitors set at 1440x900 and I use the Dualview mode. When I start the TV, the first monitor stays at 1440x900

Thank you! This shouldn't be this hard
post #13 of 23
It appears that you are using Clone mode even though you did not say so.
And if this is true you are sending 1440x900 to the TV regardess of the resolution you have set for it and this of course would cause a display with black borders.
You have to have the second monitor set to use extended desktop mode if you want to send it a different resolutionn
post #14 of 23
Mmmm...in reading your manual it says that your TV accepts 1080P - what happens when you try that?

Can someone enlighten me? Can you set three different resolutions with this card/control three different monitors? I ask because "dualview" suggests 2 monitors/resolutions-
Just because there are three different jacks (2 hdmi + 1 component) doesn't mean that you can set three different resolutions-does it?
post #15 of 23
You can use any 2 of the 3 at a time and set those 2 resolutions independently.

BB
post #16 of 23
Quote:


You can use any 2 of the 3 at a time and set those 2 resolutions independently.

So he would have to shut off one of the monitors, then change the resolution to 1920x1080 on the second display (which is now the tv)? Then, when the tv is done-turn it off and set the second display to 1440x900? (Or something like that anyway?)

Doesn't sound plug and play to me-I may have missed something along the way (I usually do-) but if you're switching your second display from one monitor rez to another-wouldn't you have to do it that way?
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
@walford, Bigbird999,rockytt

I'm going to say this one more time: I have two monitors connected via DVI and one 1080p HDTV connected via component. Only two can run at the same time:either both monitors @1440x900 OR one monitor @1440x900 and the TV at 1920x1080. At all times, regardless of the two that are running, the 3rd one is OFF. Also, at all times I am using DUALVIEW (which allows different resolutions, different wallpapers different everything) and NOT CLONE.

When I play with the resolution on the TV, I can see that the resolution changes and the width of the border also changes.

I also have an older ATI card which I've just tried. The same thing happens via component. Wouldn't it be easier if you guys told me what you did to conect your HTPCs to your TVs? I know I'm not the only person with this problem, I've found a bunch of posts on numerous forums and no straight solution.

Ok, if I cannot get rid of the border, at least tell me why I'm getting the shading! I get the shading from the second I plug the TV in, before playing with the resolution or doing anything. Can it be because of the cable? I would hate to buy a 53 foot HDMI cable to find out I get the same effect.
post #18 of 23
Quote:


Wouldn't it be easier if you guys told me what you did to conect your HTPCs to your TVs?

I have two tvs and two HTPCs - I plugged in the HDMI cable on one, and went HDMI>DVI on the other w/o no issues at all

Good luck to you - this is a forum, not tech support
post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
ok, thank you so much for your time. just like on all the other forums that I read, nobody seems to know or those that do don't post. I was under the impression that on this forum, people sometimes help each other. My mistake. I hope you will never run into a problem and have someone (i wanted to use another word) say to you what you said to me. I guess when it's quick and simple, everyone can answer, but when the problem requires some thinking, it's easier to say FY. Thank you! No more help necessary. I will eventually figure this out on my own.
post #20 of 23
Quote:


but when the problem requires some thinking, it's easier to say FY.

If that's what I meant, that's what I would have said.

BTW-your tv is 1080p, not 1080i - and you never said what happened when you tried feeding it that resolution, nor did you say what happened when you hooked it up via hdmi. Oh, and I did give you a possible answer to your shading question, but you ignored that too.

Quote:


nobody seems to know

It may seem that way to you - but look at all the questions that have been asked of you that didn't get answered and other critical pieces of information that came out later. (3 monitors hooked up at the same time? (yes the tv counts as one) - that should have been in your first post, not down at #6) What else is there that we don't know?

Quote:


I was under the impression that on this forum, people sometimes help each other

Walford has over 7000 posts-do you think he came here because he had 7000 problems of his own or do you think that maybe (just maybe) he's been able to help out a person or two?

Quote:


Good luck to you - this is a forum, not tech support

That was a direct response to your previous post where the tone was a very condescending one your part - however, if it was unintentional I retract any attitude that was communicated in #18.
post #21 of 23
It is possible that your issue is because you have 3 monitors connected, even if not in use. Try disconnecting one or both and getting the component out to the tv working then add a monitor then the third one.

I understand your frustration but like rockytt said, getting the info from you has also been frustrating. And crapping on those trying to help will get you no help!

BB
post #22 of 23
If your PC desktop is set to 1440x900 then it appears that no up scaling of the image is occuring prior to being output within the 1080i output frames.
I suggest that you try using only the TV without either monitor connected and getting that to work properly and then try connecting a monitor again.
post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
First of all, I fixed it, read below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockytt View Post

If that's what I meant, that's what I would have said.

BTW-your tv is 1080p, not 1080i - and you never said what happened when you tried feeding it that resolution, nor did you say what happened when you hooked it up via hdmi. Oh, and I did give you a possible answer to your shading question, but you ignored that too.

I got the TV 2 days ago and I was sure it was 1080p. But the computer only recognizes it as 1080i so I thought I was wrong. I did not connect it via HDMI because I do NOT have an HDMI cable long enough and I didn't have time yday to move it close to the TV.


It may seem that way to you - but look at all the questions that have been asked of you that didn't get answered and other critical pieces of information that came out later. (3 monitors hooked up at the same time? (yes the tv counts as one) - that should have been in your first post, not down at #6) What else is there that we don't know?

I did not think it was significant, my mistake. Why? Because prior to posting here I unplugged the 2 monitors and tried to use the TV on its own and nothing changed. So having two other monitors connected doesn't make a difference.

Walford has over 7000 posts-do you think he came here because he had 7000 problems of his own or do you think that maybe (just maybe) he's been able to help out a person or two?

I do understand that, I have 13000+ posts since 1999 on a programming forum being also a moderator. But I have never told anyone what you said to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbird999 View Post

It is possible that your issue is because you have 3 monitors connected, even if not in use. Try disconnecting one or both and getting the component out to the tv working then add a monitor then the third one.

No, like I said above I tried disconnecting both monitors and it didn't make a difference

I understand your frustration but like rockytt said, getting the info from you has also been frustrating. And crapping on those trying to help will get you no help!

I believe I didn't crap on anyone, I was just disappointed and frustrated with rockytt's response. I did not provide you with all the information because I had tried many things and I didn't want to waste anyone's time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

If your PC desktop is set to 1440x900 then it appears that no up scaling of the image is occuring prior to being output within the 1080i output frames.
I suggest that you try using only the TV without either monitor connected and getting that to work properly and then try connecting a monitor again.
I tried and it did not work but I managed to FIX it last night after rockytt's motivating post.

For other people that come across this topic and have the same problem: When it didn't work, I had the latest nVidia drivers installed, 181.20. So last night I started trying older versions, one by one, moving backwards in time. When I got to 175.19 IT WORKED. No frame, no shading, no nothing, perfect clear image. This is happening with the other two monitors connected at the same time as described above. I understand that not having the latest drivers might hurt a computer's gaming performance for those that care, but 175.19 is not that old. Also, the new 185.20 beta drivers do not solve the problem.

Also, this computer is my wife's computer and it sits in the basement. She wanted a TV there so I got her a decently priced one. We do have two other HDTV (a 50" in the living room and a 42" in the master bedroom adjacent to the living room) connected to an HTPC via 2HDMI cables (the longer one goes through a wall) at the same time and there have been no problems. Also the video card is an ATI. So I did know how to connect a TV (or 2) to an HTPC. Now that I know it works in the basement I will buy another graphics card, connect them in SLI and thus have 4 DVI outputs and then buy a long HDMI cable.

It is a shame that nVidia doesn't address this problem. There is no doubt in my mind that this was a driver problem. With so many people building HTPCs and with so many HDTVs on the market, they should spend a little bit of time on fixing this problem. With some drivers it works, with some drivers it doesn't.

Thank you to all those that posted, I appreciate your help and my apologies for losing my composure last night, but I thought I had tried everything and I was getting really upset. Thank you!
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