Paradigm Sub 12 & Sub 15 - Page 3

Hi, Kal

You cannot give us any info? January is a long time from now.

Nice... I guess he likes it.

Thanks for the link.

I finally got my dual Sub 12 combo up and running this morning. WOW!!! I can't believe I went this long without a dual sub setup. What was I thinking??? Anyone who is debating a second sub, trust me, it's well worth the investment. My listening experience has gone from very impressive, to downright bone chilling. Ironman on BR easily equalled my previous best bass experience of The Dark Knight in IMAX. Transformers and Live Free Or Die Hard were also very impressive. Not to sound too gushy, but I'm left wanting no more.

The Sub 12 really is something very special...

congrats man

nice i was going to do a dual sub 15 mabey a dual sub 12 will do the trick

Maybe... I guess it depends on the size of your room. How big is your space?

For reference, my room is ~12x11x7.5, so quite small. I think if you get over that 2000 cubic foot range, a dual Sub 15 setup might be worth some extra consideration. I'm a bit of a bass head though...

Awesome BRAC!! Congrats on your second SUB 12!! So you are saying I need to get another SUB 25 then???

Hey BRAC,

Did you ever own a Paradigm Servo 15A/V2/Signature Servo? I am wondering how the SUB 12 compares specifically to the Servo 15A? I own a Servo 15A in a second system, it sounds awesome, but I am looking for something smaller that has the same amount of output. Do you think a SUB 12 could keep up with the Servo 15 in terms of output?

Thanks,
s

BTW, I WANT PICS! lol.

I'm interested in a Servo 15v1 and SUB12 comparison as well. Currently I have the Servo 15 and love it, but I'm looking at the new SUB12.

Thanks,

Mark

2 Sub 25's would be cracy. I HIGHLY recommend dual subs if you can manage it. My dual Sub 12's sound much more full and effortless. The extra headroom makes a big difference. The subs are hardly working, but yet I'm still getting huge spl.

I haven't heard the most recent Servo's, but I remember reading that the new Sub ** models can dig deeper and have higher output than the previous Servo designs. I can't confirm either way.

How's the Sub 25 been treating you?

To start, this is the first time I have reviewed a product before.

I have had a number of Paradigm systems from 4@Titan (V2) speakers and a PW 2500 sub. Then I upgraded to Studio 100 (v2), CC (v2), ADP (v2), and Servo 15 v1 about 5 years ago. Last winter we had a flood in our basement and the full set of speakers got written off. Because it took a couple of months to get all the work done, the V4 / servo were discontinued, so I was one of the first to get V5. They replaced my set with Studio 100 (V5), CC 590 (V5) which I paid the extra $$ and got the CC 690 (V5), ADP 590 (V5) and Sub 15.

If I had to quantify the improvement in sound, I would say it's now twice as good as my old system. Even before I had the speakers broken in, my first reaction was WOW and if I don't listen to the for a while I still say WOW how great they sound. I am running a Yamaha RX Z1, which is a little bit low in power to push the Studio V2, but now I find that the V5 the mid range to be not a sluggish and the high range to be clear. I would have rated the Studio 100 V2 as a great speaker. And I would say the Studio 100 V5 as excellent. The studio 100 V5 is such a great speaker I can't see where they can improve. They are clear, great mid and has a great sound stage.

Now for the Servo 15 to Sub 15 comparison.

To start, the first sub I bought was a paradigm PW 2500. This was a good sub for movie lots of boom, a little slow but not the best for music. So I upgraded to a Servo 15 V1. This sub (servo 15) in my opinion did not have the room shaking boom during movies as the pw 2500 but product bass a lot more accurately. With the sub 15, you get all the room shaking boom with an accurately sounding bass. I know it's not fare to compare the servo 15 V1 to the sub 15 because the servo 15 only had 400 RMS power vs the sub 15 has a 1700 RMS power rating with Ultra Class D power amps. If someone has the Servo 15 V1 and has the money the sub 15 is a great upgrade.

For the center if anyone is thinking of buying the CC 590, I thing for the extra $$ the CC 690 is a much better center. You get 2 more bass/mid drivers for not much more money.

The new Paradigm studio V5 line is a great series. The drivers that are now in the Studio V5 were the drivers they used in their signature series a couple a years ago for a lot less money from when they were in the signature series. If I was in the market, I would still choose the studio series because they have great value.

How do I connect two subs to the AV receiver? Do I need a "Y" splitter or something?

Also, should the two subs be the same make and model? I have an old Paradigm (9 years) and I want to hook it up to a Sub 12 (when I get permission and cash!!).

Will fine tuning be difficult with 2 subs?

I like to get the Bass Kit but will this work with the old sub?

Yes.

The PBK will not work with the old sub.

Can anyone post pictures of their Sub-15 sub's ?

Regards,

How much watts of power does the Sub 12 require ?

Does it need a separate power outlet or can it be safely plugged into a decent Monster Power Center?

I checked the Paradigm web sites and their online brochures, but couldn't find this info.

Thanks.

its always better to have dedicated for the subs. the sub 12 will work in any available outlet.

Why is that? I have my dual Sub 12's plugged into the same Monster Power Center as my Denon 3808, and all of my other gear, running to a single 15 amp circuit. I have yet to experience and problems at all with this setup. In fact, I haven't even managed to light up the 12 amp indicator light on my Monster Power Center, and I was hitting peaks of ~110-115db while watching Cloverfield this evening.

every setup is different. i tend to over kill my personal setups. if i do dual sub 15's each 15 will be ao a different phase. the same if i do 2 A5 Amps.

Well, it is getting close to decision time for me. In the next two weeks I have to decide between the Sub12 or the Sub 15.

Original plan was simple...sub12, then I was toying with the idea of a Sub15...but after reading a few posts about dual subs, I am now thinking dual sub 12. One now, and another down the road.

I have been without a subwoofer for 4.5 years now since I sold my old and dearly missed PW2200. I lived in an apartment then and I simply couldn't use it.

Then moved to a townhouse and thought about getting a sub, but I new it would have caused problems.

Now that I am in a detached house, it is sub time.

I am also thinking of getting the gloss black finish. Any thoughts on that?

I can't wait to feel real bass at home again. It's tough working at a store all day and feeling decent bass (store is not great accoustically), and not having it when you get home.

Cloverfield, Transformers, Star Trek, POTC...haven't watched any of these with anyting but decent tower speaker bass.

From what I understand the gloss black looks great, but by nature is also reflective, which can be less than ideal if you use a projector setup or if it reflects into your eyes or onto your TV. I think it also costs extra.

I have a single SUB12 in a small HT room (8X10) in a condo, if I can help you with any information let me know.

Mark

I don't know what I never thought about reflection in my HT room. I do use a FP (not currently as my basement is being demolished and rebuilt for my HT), but that makes very much sense. I guess it will be flat black...or rosenut...damn now I feel like a woman talking about colour and how it will match in with its surroundings.

Mark, how do you like the Sub 12?

I really, really like it.

I also had an opportunity to try my SUB12 in a fairly large room before I moved into my condo. I was able also to compare it to a Paradigm Servo 15v1, SVS PC-12 Plus, and a Paradigm Ultracube. About 3/4 way down the page you will find my detailed thoughts and pictures posted in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1183879

It outperformed every other sub handily in the large room (its more expensive, though), and in my new, tiny HT room, I've got the gain around 1/4 and it is plenty loud. It provided the hit-you-in-the-chest visceral feeling that the other subs all lacked, and is the most crisp/tight sounding sub I have ever heard. It also provided me with bass sounds I've never heard before in music. It just sounds exactly how I would want it to. I think Paradigm really hit a home run with these. I don't have the PBK-1 yet, but I will be getting it soon, and it should make it even better. It has a nice small footprint too, which is nice.

Mine is matte black, because the rest of my speakers are, any other veneer is more expensive, and I use front projection so I don't want any reflections coming off the piano black near my screen.

I would think the SUB15 just has crazy output based on what I am getting from the SUB12 compared to the older Servo 15v1. They do have the same amps though (which I believe is actually 2 separate amps). Dual SUB12's would be spectacular, and the PBK-1 can handle dual sub equalization just fine (it's a derivative of the infamous Anthem room correction software).

Anyways let me know if you have any other questions I can help with. I think you will love this sub (or the 15).

Mark

I finally pulled the trigger on the sub 12. Haven't had much time to try it out alot. Just the test tone sounded awesome and demonstrated some creaking in my room. Pretty wicked.

I have a question for any owners. When it turns on, there is a slight popping sound and when it turns off, there is a slightly smaller amount of popping. Is this normal? Are any others getting this? I would have thought for something with audiophile quality, it would not do this. I have a $300 JBL sub in my family room that turns on and off completely silently. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Congrats on the purchase - you're going to love it.

I haven't noticed that on my Sub12, but I can check for you later tonigtht when I watch a movie. I bet I will hear some sort of small noise when it turns on though.

With other subs, I have noticed they make a faint "pop" turning on, and they thump when turning off, but from my experience that depends on the receiver. With our Servo 15 sub, an old Denon receiver and an Onkyo 906 receiver did that, but my Pioneer SC-05 does not. In 10 years it had absolutely no effect on the sub, I really doubt anything is wrong if yours is doing that too, but I will pay attention to what my SUB12 does and report back.

Mark

I am lusting after the Sub 12 as well. My DSP 3200 was posted on the Canuck Audio mart last night so once it sells I will get a Rosenut Sub 12. Thanks for the good information

Brac,

Did you get the PBK with your subs, and if so did you set them both up with it? I've had my Sub12 for about a month now and I just did the setup tonight with the PBK. I don't know if it's just my room or not, but the setup sucked all of the good stuff from my sub. I started with the first shootout scene in Live Free or Die Hard and it sucked, you could feel a bit of bass but couldn't hear much. Then I tried The Hulk, Courtyard scene and it sucked huge.

The sub sounded great initially so I erased the setup. I'm ordering another Sub12 tomorrow after reading how many people recommend a dual setup, and because I'm bass hungry. How did you place your subs?

I almost forgot, PBK-1 for sale - $225 CDN.

Well, I've had a slight change of heart. I have decided to go for the Sub15 instead. Primarily due to that fact that ever since I purchase my original PW2200 ten years ago (and sold it and been without a sub for 5 years) I always wanted to purchase the Servo 15. So I am going to do right by myself this time and get the sub that I REALLY want, and the Sub15 in a nice Rosenut finish will be in place in about 3 weeks.

The next 3 weeks are going to be very long.

Had a chance to set up the sub correctly and run it through its paces. It truly is something amazing. First calibrated using PBK and then through Audyssey multi xt. Kung Fu Panda on BR was great. Deep extension and clear punch. No muddy bass here. Also ran Flight of the Phoenix on BR. The scene with the sand storm was amazing. It was room rattling, tight, loud and punchy bass. Fantastic. I bet a sub 15 would be felt rather than heard because of its low frequency extension but the sub 12 is really no slouch. I am really happy.

On the music side, I'll just say that you can HEAR every note with this sub. There is absolutely no muddiness.

BRAC, could you describe more about your dual sub 12 setup and what you noticed. Curious about a dual sub setup myself.

Sorry to hear that... I did indeed setup my dual Sub 12's with the PBK-1 kit and it did help in my situation. I won't say it was night and day, because I was already making use of the MultEQ XT in my 3808, but it seemed to tighten things up a bit more. I tried to run my system with just the PBK eq and the bass sounded great, but I lost that "transparency" between channels that Audyssey does so well. So, basically I just kept the calculated PBK curves uploaded in each sub, then I eq'd the whole system with MultEQ XT. The results are excellent...

It could be that you are just not adjusted to a flat response. If you are getting huge peaks at certain frequencies it will certainly give you the impression of more bass, but the sub may in fact be revealing itself where it shouldn't be, due to poor room acoustics. I would suggest leaving the eq in the loop for awhile longer just to see if you can adjust. Another suggestion I have with regards to HT, and possibly music, is to run your sub a little HOT. I run my subs 2db HOT for movies. Most AVSers seem to be running their subs 2-3db HOT for movies, and some prefer even higher than that. An spl meter is essential for this process.

Btw, I used the exact same eq configuration on my single Sub 12, before adding my second, and that was my preferred setup when running the single unit as well.