Paradigm Sub 12 & Sub 15 - Page 4

Originally Posted by Gamma Curve

Had a chance to set up the sub correctly and run it through its paces. It truly is something amazing. First calibrated using PBK and then through Audyssey multi xt. Kung Fu Panda on BR was great. Deep extension and clear punch. No muddy bass here. Also ran Flight of the Phoenix on BR. The scene with the sand storm was amazing. It was room rattling, tight, loud and punchy bass. Fantastic. I bet a sub 15 would be felt rather than heard because of its low frequency extension but the sub 12 is really no slouch. I am really happy.

On the music side, I'll just say that you can HEAR every note with this sub. There is absolutely no muddiness.

BRAC, could you describe more about your dual sub 12 setup and what you noticed. Curious about a dual sub setup myself.

Originally Posted by BRAC

Sorry to hear that... I did indeed setup my dual Sub 12's with the PBK-1 kit and it did help in my situation. I won't say it was night and day, because I was already making use of the MultEQ XT in my 3808, but it seemed to tighten things up a bit more. I tried to run my system with just the PBK eq and the bass sounded great, but I lost that "transparency" between channels that Audyssey does so well. So, basically I just kept the calculated PBK curves uploaded in each sub, then I eq'd the whole system with MultEQ XT. The results are excellent...

It could be that you are just not adjusted to a flat response. If you are getting huge peaks at certain frequencies it will certainly give you the impression of more bass, but the sub may in fact be revealing itself where it shouldn't be, due to poor room acoustics. I would suggest leaving the eq in the loop for awhile longer just to see if you can adjust. Another suggestion I have with regards to HT, and possibly music, is to run your sub a little HOT. I run my subs 2db HOT for movies. Most AVSers seem to be running their subs 2-3db HOT for movies, and some prefer even higher than that. An spl meter is essential for this process.

Btw, I used the exact same eq configuration on my single Sub 12, before adding my second, and that was my preferred setup when running the single unit as well.

Originally Posted by dshred

Thanks BRAC.

I think I figured out my problem. I did the MultEQ XT setup a couple of weeks ago and my receiver set the sub output to zero. I set it back to plus 12 and got my bass back. I ordered some Studio 100v5 and a 690cc/v5 yesterday so once I get those I'll have to do the EQ setup again.

Should I do the speaker setup first or the sub first?

Originally Posted by gary cornell

Dealer coming saturday with SUB 12 and PBK, also bringing (2) Revel C52's. I'll have (3) C52's for L C R on an overhead shelf and Revel M20 rears with MC12. For just 2 channel, the SUB 12 with front C52's mated to Parasound JC1's and JC2. Room is 10' x 9' and should be amazing.

Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle

The title says it all. Would you go for a sub12 now, knowing that in a year you are going to add a 2nd sub12, Or would you go for a single sub 15 now, and no second sub later.

Getting my new sub next wednesday and am having a tough decision on this one. The Sub15 does stretch the wallet a little more all at once and I am thinking the better performance will come with 2 sub 12s.

Little help or advise (and two sub15s is unfortunately not an answer).

Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle

Flatter response can be easily acheived with the PBK. So is there any additional advantage to two subs over one?

Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle

The title says it all. Would you go for a sub12 now, knowing that in a year you are going to add a 2nd sub12, Or would you go for a single sub 15 now, and no second sub later.

Getting my new sub next wednesday and am having a tough decision on this one. The Sub15 does stretch the wallet a little more all at once and I am thinking the better performance will come with 2 sub 12s.

Little help or advise (and two sub15s is unfortunately not an answer).

Originally Posted by jayray

I have a Servo 15 V2 I think and it did have a little extra low end than the Sub 12 as GammaCurve can attest to since it was his sub 12 we pitted against mine Mine is adjusted with Anthem Room Correction but the PBK is equally adept at fixing the LFE.
John

Originally Posted by Warpdrv

A 12" driver will move less air, and therfore only have less low end output compared to a 15" driver... of coarse this also depends on room size, If your HT is in a closet you should have no trouble getting good room gain down low... what I mean is if your room is small you can get plenty of good performance with a 12, but if its medium then go for a bigger driver, more excursion/power to dig deep. I have had subs that hit the mid to low teens but have grown to appreciate better performing drivers in the normal hearing range roughly around 20hz, a touch lower is nice, but not all that big a deal to me.. good output down to 17hz is more then plenty for me, with better mid and upper bass precision, punch and clarity IMO.


What is your room size...?


If you really want low output go with the bigger driver... add a second later down the road for better in room balance...

Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle

Initial room size will be 11x18x9 and open to a staircase and a hallway.

But when the basement is finished then it will be in a 12x22x8 open to slightly open to another area.

Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle

Was the difference in bottom end noticeable to the extent that it would make you purchase a 15 over a 12.

I think I am leaning towards a 12 this week, and then when the basement is comeplete some time in 2010, add a second sub 12. I understand the improvement in flatter response, a slight increase in dB.

But does any of that undermine the ability of IN ROOM low frequency extension that the Sub15 may have over the Sub12?

Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle

The title says it all. Would you go for a sub12 now, knowing that in a year you are going to add a 2nd sub12, Or would you go for a single sub 15 now, and no second sub later.

Getting my new sub next wednesday and am having a tough decision on this one. The Sub15 does stretch the wallet a little more all at once and I am thinking the better performance will come with 2 sub 12s.

Little help or advise (and two sub15s is unfortunately not an answer).

Originally Posted by jayray

My understanding of multiple subs for our sized rooms is to improve freq. response. With PBK, this is unlikely to be an issue. Either the sub 12 or 15 will move air and PBK will fix freq resp. for multiple positions in your room.
John

Originally Posted by Warpdrv

Depends how hot he likes to listen, but it def will aid in evening out his in room response.... he should look at getting something like the DCX 2496 to taylor his bass response at the LP... the arrival times get messed up with different positioning... ask me, I know all about having subs scattered all over my room in different locations and distances.... I though it was good bass before, until I added the DCX to tweak each sub separately. Now things are absolutely amazing 4 subs 16kws of power behind them...

If he doesn't address the different distances which it sounds like he is going to add a sub just behind his seating location that will probably need to add delay so they all hit at the same time at the same place, he will have a muddied mess. blurring the bass instead of just adding to it and also adjusting the crossover for that rear placement sub, because of the different wavelengths they will not perform properly together... the rear sub being closer will need a lower low pass compared to the 2 that are placed right next to the mains if thats how he has them...

Originally Posted by jayray

When we tried the two subs in my room, the servo 15 did go lower. My room is 14' x 25' and gammacurve's is 14 x 18. In my room and in his, there was a noticeable bottom end diff. Again, his had PBK and mine ARC. We tested many BDs and both of our impressions were the same. Is it worth the price, well that is a hard question to answer. No concern about $, go for it but your tastes will also affect your decision. I live in Mississauga and if you wanted to hear a test of the servo I could arrange a time for you to hear it or FEEL it with EQ on. It does make a lot of diff having the PBK or ARC correct the sub.
PM me if interested.
John

Originally Posted by jayray

My understanding of multiple subs for our sized rooms is to improve freq. response. With PBK, this is unlikely to be an issue. Either the sub 12 or 15 will move air and PBK will fix freq resp. for multiple positions in your room.
John

Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle

What I am taking away from this is that I don't have a huge space to fill with bass, in either my family room, or the soon to be completed basement.

I guess my last question to you, John, is (in your opinion) was the lower extension noticeable to the point that when you switched back to the sub 12,
it took some enjoyment away. Or was the difference minor?