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The Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Owner's Thread... - Page 276

post #8251 of 8564
Hello Rev,

I have found from other threads, and having the SC-05 (the 'Baby') myself, is that connecting video via HDMI cord to + from the 151. A 'better grade' of HDMI cord for video is good. As far as audio, hard-wired is also the best way, you can tweak it to your liking, especially when it depends on the acoustics of the room, aka, the MAN-CAVE. However, my wife has all the rooms, so that leaves me with......the bathroom. Seriously, video=good/great HDMI; audio=hard-wire.

Chueyson
post #8252 of 8564
I do not have HDMI so I have to use the analogs or if it's not HD audio maybe the optical to my VSX-59TXi receiver... I would hook up both HDMI and analog.. Let HDMI handle the DVDs and CDs... I think the player's decoding is awesome.. but I have nothing to compare it to.. so I don't know about the HDMI.

Fred
post #8253 of 8564
Hello,

I'm sending 5.1 individual analog signals from my Elite blu-ray player (BDP-09FD) to the multichannel input of my processor (Anthem Statement D1).

With the audio output mode in 'Analog', the blu ray player allows for calibration options such a speaker distance, channel levels and crossovers... this is a great
feature since most of today's processor/controllers treat such analog signals as 'Direct' or 'Bypass' with no DSP or calibration options available.

The Anthem D1, however uses an Analog DSP feature which takes care of these calibrations.

My question is:

When selecting Analog Out and speakers to Multichannel, does choosing the Channel Level to 'Fix' (instead of variable) cancel the Speaker Setup &
Speaker Distance sections?

If not, is my best solution to set the blu-ray player with the same settings as the processor... ie. Speakers set to 'small', similar crossovers for the
subwoofer and speaker distances ?

Thank you for your attention
Edited by gdraconas - 10/16/12 at 8:32pm
post #8254 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffron_boots View Post

Well, I eventually got the infamous "unknown disc" error. Thankfully, the 3-year warranty was still valid and Pioneer Canada repaired and returned the unit inside of a week. So far they have replaced: power supply, main motherboard, onboard 4Gb Flash memory, and now the transport assembly. I think the only original parts left are the chassis and the power cord...
It's been a very disappointing experience owning this machine. I really regret this purchase despite the amazing service I've gotten from Pioneer. Cumulatively, it's been out-of-service/in the shop for 5-6 months, and I have only managed to use it continuously for 11 months before this latest problem.
In the meantime I've bought an Oppo BDP-95, based on opinions here and elsewhere, which seems to be every inch the audio and video machine the BDP-09FD is at 1/2 the price. The latter is now relegated to the master bedroom.

Really depressing news tonight from Oppo with a just-received factory replacement of a 95 I bought in May.

They indicated that this machine does not have the horsepower to downmix a phantom centre channel and leave the SBL and SBR alone. Essentially I run my system in a 6.1 config and the best this player can muster is 4.1. This is for all those considering the BDP-95 as a replacement to a failed BDP-09.

Honestly, I am very surprised by this, given all the accolades it received, and the fact that the Pioneer could do this. Very disappointing.

In the meantime, the refurbished Pioneer is back on the rack and performing exceptionally. The Oppo has been sent up to the bedroom, without any supper...
post #8255 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffron_boots View Post

Really depressing news tonight from Oppo with a just-received factory replacement of a 95 I bought in May.
They indicated that this machine does not have the horsepower to downmix a phantom centre channel and leave the SBL and SBR alone. Essentially I run my system in a 6.1 config and the best this player can muster is 4.1. This is for all those considering the BDP-95 as a replacement to a failed BDP-09.
Honestly, I am very surprised by this, given all the accolades it received, and the fact that the Pioneer could do this. Very disappointing.
In the meantime, the refurbished Pioneer is back on the rack and performing exceptionally. The Oppo has been sent up to the bedroom, without any supper...

I only vaguely remember someone wanting to run a phantom center in another thread, which I can't recall. Is this the same as disabling the center channel and feeding that information to the front left and right? What speakers are being driven in the 6.1 config in the 09FD and the 4.1 config in the Oppo?

I have a BDP-51FD so I would assume that it may have this capability.smile.gif


Edit:

I think you can accomplish this with the BDP-95. See post 8693, page 290 of the BDP-95 Owners thread. I think this is what you are trying to accomplish.
Edited by bakerwi - 10/19/12 at 6:30am
post #8256 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

You are just discovering this after owning the unit since May.eek.gif I've only vaguely remember someone wanting to run a phantom center in another thread, which I can't recall. So, based on that I was venture a guess that the ability to run a phantom center is not a must have feature for the overwhelming majority of owners. I've searched this thread and your post is the only post that speaks of a phantom center. Is this the same as disabling the center channel and feeding that information to the front left and right? What speakers are being driven in the 6.1 config in the 09FD and the 4.1 config in the Oppo?
I have a BDP-51FD so I would assume that it may have this capability.smile.gif

Yes and yes. I've been running both players (and the theatre as a whole) in 2-channel mode with Levinson and Thiel gear for a couple of years. I finally pulled the trigger on some additional surround gear over the summer (Parasound Halo and PSB fyi) so that is why it took this long to discover.

The phantom centre is as you've assumed: I turned off the C channel and floated the mix between the L and R. It's when I set up the system this way with the onboard test tones that I discovered the missing audio. Believe me, Oppo service couldn't figure it out over the phone either. The question of the C being ON or OFF during our diagnosis either never came up, or we didn't clue in to this idiosyncrasy immediately.

So, when they were unable to find a "problem" they simply replaced the machine. That's amazing customer service, in the sense they didn't call me a liar and simply send my machine back. Pioneer did this with the BDP-09... THEIR standard diagnostics never checked the state of the onboard 4 Gb flash memory - that procedure has been added since its discovery with my unit.
post #8257 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Edit:
I think you can accomplish this with the BDP-95. See post 8693, page 290 of the BDP-95 Owners thread. I think this is what you are trying to accomplish.

Yes. Turning off the Center channel splits the info between the Left and Right. That part's ok. BUT, the Oppo turns off the SBL and SBR channels in order to accomplish this task. Ergo, only a 4.0 or 4.1 ( L R SL SR SW) analogue output is possible. BTW, the upcoming Oppo BDP-105 will behave exactly the same way.

Very strange, but like I said, the BDP-09 performs flawlessly in this configuration.
post #8258 of 8564
Well.... After several months of intermittent operation (and denial on my part) it looks like I'm finally going to have to send my unit back for the dreaded drive replacement.. Any words of wisdom from those that have already gone through this? About how long should I expect this to take, and how many hundreds of dollars should I expect Pioneer to gouge me to repair this known issue with their "flagship" player.. And yes, if you didn't pick up on it, I'm a bit put off by this..

Update - $80 plus cost of insured shipping to CA just to have them look at it.. not impressed at all so far... I liked this player a lot, but that new Oppo is looking better and better..
Edited by ECS01 - 11/7/12 at 10:00am
post #8259 of 8564
what really sucks is that Pioneer has to program the optical drive to each individual player. You cannot take a drive from one player and put it in another, it just won't work. That kind a sucks because I have a Pio BDP05FD and a couple of BDP51FD for parts if the drive fails but thats's now out the window...
post #8260 of 8564
Keep us posted on the price breakdown for the fix. I got mine within the first 3 months of introduction and just got my first problem disc with Prometheus on Blu-ray. After 4 inserts it accepted the disc and played normal. This is the first time I see an issue with the 09 so I am hoping it was just an anomaly. Like you I really like this player.

Do we know if it's just a certain lot of 09's with drive issues or is it across the board?
post #8261 of 8564
For your sake I hope it's just an anomaly too, but that's how it started with mine.. it just got progressively worse over time. It still successfully reads BR from time to time, but it's just not worth the struggle anymore. I'm curious to see the diagnosis, and I still haven't decided at what cost I'll just say "forget it"... I also wonder how long they will have parts available to repair/support these if it goes out again...
post #8262 of 8564
Wow - was really looking forward to getting one of these players until I read all the way through the thread. Looks like the new BDP-62FD has what I need from a video perspective so I will just go that route. A brand new open-box BDP-09FD just sold on eBay yesterday for $770 with free shipping. I gues I am glad I didn't pounce on that. Sorry to hear about all of your troubles.
post #8263 of 8564
Yes, many here have reported on the drive problems they've had, some occurring sooner than others. Not everyone has had them (I haven't, after 3.67 years of use), but the track record here is enough to give one pause. I would think, though, that Pioneer has learned some things and that newer players don't have the issues the 09 has had. I was exposed to the 09 by the dealer I bought my Kuro plasma from, and was duly impressed by the player. I still am. It is nice to know, though, that if it goes bad and repair isn't an option (for whatever reason), there are other player options out there. But I would be inclined to pick the one that I think comes closest to what the 09 does.
post #8264 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

But I would be inclined to pick the one that I think comes closest to what the 09 does.

Subjectively what transport would this be? I would think most transports in $1K+ range being introduced today would equal or exceed (subjective) the analog of 09FD and easily outpace it on features. I know it was a fine transport in its day and it is still serving its owners quite well, but it is 2012 and transports are just better. I still maintain a Sony BDP-S5000ES in my main setup with no regrets, but it is long in the tooth in like new condition as the day I bought it.biggrin.gif
post #8265 of 8564
It really is unfortunate, and not just because the initial investment in the machine was so high, but because when it is working - it really is outstanding. I do hope they can fix the thing, and it would be even better if it didn't cost a small fortune to do so. So far I'm into this repair for $120 for shipping and the "diagnosis/estimate" and it hasn't even been looked at yet.. Believe me - if I didn't really like it, I'd just write the thing off and move on.
post #8266 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Subjectively what transport would this be? I would think most transports in $1K+ range being introduced today would equal or exceed (subjective) the analog of 09FD and easily outpace it on features. I know it was a fine transport in its day and it is still serving its owners quite well, but it is 2012 and transports are just better. I still maintain a Sony BDP-S5000ES in my main setup with no regrets, but it is long in the tooth in like new condition as the day I bought it.biggrin.gif

At this point I don't know, as I've no experience with any; only reviews, ads and specs. And it may come down to those things as in-store auditioning becomes more difficult (in-home too in some cases). Video-wise I have an Oppo 83 here and judge the 09 to be better on DVDs; but the newer Oppos may well be better. In any case the sound will have to impress me, maybe even over the picture, as I am more audiophile than videophile and the analog section was the major factor in buying the 09. I might try the Cambridge Audio 751BD or Marantz UD7007 as alternatives also, should the day arrive that the 09 is no longer viable. I am not interested in online anything or 3D, so features per se won't win me over.
Edited by prepress - 11/21/12 at 4:08pm
post #8267 of 8564
I've tried the CA 751 and for its 2-ch analog out, I subjectively find it to be better than the 09. I've sold my 09 a long time ago right after a firmware upgrade made the bootuptime longer by 10 seconds than the previous firmware. biggrin.gif
post #8268 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I've tried the CA 751 and for its 2-ch analog out, I subjectively find it to be better than the 09. I've sold my 09 a long time ago right after a firmware upgrade made the bootuptime longer by 10 seconds than the previous firmware. biggrin.gif

Wow, ten seconds? Which update was that? Since I don't watch as much as I used to and then mainly DVDs I haven't noticed any longer load times. I have 2.72 running now.
post #8269 of 8564
Update.. Unit was rcvd on Wednesday and is apparently still "in evaluation". Will be interesting to see what they come up with, but at least the tracking process seems pretty decent so far.
post #8270 of 8564
Well.. estimate to repair is $340... More than I'd hoped, but I guess that's still cheaper than a new Oppo so I'll call them and authorize repairs.. Just hope it stays fixed!

Update - turns out the drive assembly needed to be replaced.. What a surprise..rolleyes.gif

Another update.. status this AM is now "repairs complete" so I guess it will be headed back to me pretty soon.. I suppose this isn't a bad turnaround time considering the holiday..

Last update... unit shipped out yesterday and I should have it back in 2 days.. If it arrives intact and works properly again, I guess that will close out this issue. Fairly efficient overall for a factory repair, just annoying that it cost $340 + shipping, or that it had to be done at all on their flagship player..
Edited by ECS01 - 11/27/12 at 8:12am
post #8271 of 8564
Just wondering - of the people that have sent their units in for drive unit repairs/replacement, have there been any further issues (recurring problem), or does this seem to be a successful long term solution? confused.gif
post #8272 of 8564
If mine crapped out again, believe me, you would have heard. eek.gifwink.gif
post #8273 of 8564
Thanks, good to know! biggrin.gif and I will make the same promise for mine..

Got the unit back yesterday, plugged it in, and re-entered all the settings.. It's definitely not any faster, rolleyes.gif but at least it does seem to work now. Granted it was a very limited test, but I "think" we're good to go. The only thing that I found mildly annoying is that they kept my nice factory box and packaging and returned it in a plain brown box with minimal padding and "Pioneer refurbished unit" stamped on the side in big red letters.... I suppose it made it back intact though, so it'a a rather small thing to get too annoyed with...
Edited by ECS01 - 11/30/12 at 8:19am
post #8274 of 8564
I had my drive replaced (under warranty) July '11 and have had no problems until now....

This has happened with 2 discs so far: Prometheus and Crooked Arrows. It takes an unusually long time to load while displaying "loading" and the Pioneer logo (at least 2 min), then goes to the standard notice about making sure you have the latest firmware, then it goes to "play" but nothing happens. The unit display shows "86- 1- 00000" and just remains there. No other function (skip, FF, menu, etc) works. The on-screen display shows 99 chapters, but the duration shown at the right side of the timeline at the top is 0:00:00.

I ejected and re-loaded Prometheus a few times and it finally played - Crooked Arrows would not play.

Anyone have this problem? I have firmware 2.73, which is shown as the latest on the Pioneer web site.
Edited by rider - 12/2/12 at 8:45pm
post #8275 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by rider View Post

I had my drive replaced (under warranty) July '11 and have had no problems until now....
This has happened with 2 discs so far: Prometheus and Crooked Arrows. It takes an unusually long time to load while displaying "loading" and the Pioneer logo (at least 2 min), then goes to the standard notice about making sure you have the latest firmware, then it goes to "play" but nothing happens. The unit display shows "86- 1- 00000" and just remains there. No other function (skip, FF, menu, etc) works. The on-screen display shows 99 chapters, but the duration shown at the right side of the timeline at the top is 0:00:00.
I ejected and re-loaded Prometheus a few times and it finally played - Crooked Arrows would not play.
Anyone have this problem? I have firmware 2.73, which is shown as the latest on the Pioneer web site.

Update:

Spoke with Pioneer support. This is a known issue with these discs (and apparently some others), and they expect the 2.74 update to be posted on the web site within the next couple of weeks.

He also assured me that as long as Pioneer is in the blu-ray business, they'll support all their blu-ray players, so we shouldn't have to worry about 'end-of-life' issues with the 09 (he said they're still supporting some 30-yr-old Pioneer products!).

You always get a knowledgeable support person (usually very quickly, +/-5 min.) who gives you direct and detailed answers - Pioneer really does have excellent support.
post #8276 of 8564
has anyone heard if they will be doing a 3d update for this player?????
post #8277 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by rider View Post

Update:
Spoke with Pioneer support. This is a known issue with these discs (and apparently some others), and they expect the 2.74 update to be posted on the web site within the next couple of weeks.
He also assured me that as long as Pioneer is in the blu-ray business, they'll support all their blu-ray players, so we shouldn't have to worry about 'end-of-life' issues with the 09 (he said they're still supporting some 30-yr-old Pioneer products!).
You always get a knowledgeable support person (usually very quickly, +/-5 min.) who gives you direct and detailed answers - Pioneer really does have excellent support.

That's nice to hear. I still use 2.72 and haven't felt much need to update, since I still have many more DVDs than BDs and most of the BDs aren't that complicated.
post #8278 of 8564
If I am having the same issue listed above like the 09fd will only play some blu ray disks and I dont want to have the item repaired should I just go with the oppo bdp-95 or the oppo dbp-105????
post #8279 of 8564
Good question that will probably be different answer for everyone.

The repairs Pioneer has been doing seem to be working since nobody seems to be suffering from the same issue twice. Then you have to weigh the cost of the repair vs the price of a new Oppo. You have to consider the quality that you are getting between the Oppo new vs the Pioneer Fixed.

My BDP-09FD is still humming along with no issues so far. I did see that problem pop up once last year on my player but it was just that one time and have not seen it since, but I am thinking of the same thing. If and when it happens to me what would I do. At the moment I am thinking of keeping my 09FD since I really do like the performance.

What has been the average cost of shipping and repair?
post #8280 of 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by rider View Post

Update:
Spoke with Pioneer support. This is a known issue with these discs (and apparently some others), and they expect the 2.74 update to be posted on the web site within the next couple of weeks.
He also assured me that as long as Pioneer is in the blu-ray business, they'll support all their blu-ray players, so we shouldn't have to worry about 'end-of-life' issues with the 09 (he said they're still supporting some 30-yr-old Pioneer products!).
You always get a knowledgeable support person (usually very quickly, +/-5 min.) who gives you direct and detailed answers - Pioneer really does have excellent support.

Great news!
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