The Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Owner's Thread... - Page 279

me neither (crossed fingers).

Odd

Yoshiwara,

Let us know what you think of the Oppo BDP-105. I am thinking of picking one up later this year due to the universal playpack capabilities for SACD and DVD-A.

Odd

I have a couple of friends who owned BDP-09FDs and also bought Oppo BDP-95s... They said the Oppos outperformed the Pioneer in every way; speed, DVD playback and audio performance. They have since sold or selling their Pioneers.

I auditioned a 95 to A/B with my 09. The 95's load speed was obviously faster. I don't recall any difference in DVD playback (there was definitely none with Blu-ray) with my Sharp 20K projector on a 110" screen.

The analog audio was a different story - there was simply no comparison; the Pioneer was in another class in terms of sound quality.

The Oppo was a very nice unit, but I returned it - audio is far too important to me.

Agreed.

The subjective nature of audio.

I would not say it's subjective in this case but more the difference in the analog build of the BDP-09FD.

There's also differing systems and rooms. And ears. And preferences, perhaps. All these could influence things.

Why is it not subjective? You and I can listen to players A and B in our own setups or in a neutral setup and you subjectively prefer player A and I player B regardless of the build. Most would expect the Pioneer to sound better because it has a better build than the Oppo and cost approximately twice (MSRP) as much and attribute the better sound to the build. It is nice to hear some audition both players and let their ears decide. Better build quality doesn’t mean better sound. It only means better build quality.

Prior to purchasing my Oppo BDP-95 (recently replaced by my Oppo BDP-105) the best DAC implementation I had heard in my setup was in my Denon DVD-5910CI. I had also auditioned a Denon DVD-3800BDCI; presently own a Sony BDP-S5000ES and a Cambridge Azur 640C v2 (similar analog implementation to the Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD). I use the Oppo for all things musical and prior to that I wavered between my Denon and Cambridge.

Some will not confess that a lesser built player sounds better (subjectively) than a better built player. Based on that thought process alone my Denon DVD-5910CI by default would sound better than the Pioneer BDP-09FD and every other player that I own or have owned. If build quality is someone’s basis for preferring one player over another then why even listen and just buy based on the specs and a scale. Manufacturer's market build quality to justify price.


I agree with you 100%, but some of us have biases and wouldn't entertain the thought that a player costing half the price and of a lesser build could sound better, but the variables that you mention are the reasons why. Some just may prefer the sonic characteristics of a specific DAC implementation regardless of the build quality. To often we get caught up on what’s in the box and what it cost as opposed to what comes out of the box.

Those sound like a subjective comments to me.

I also think the the optical drive on the Pioneer is one of the worst I have seen at any price, at least on reliability.

They are, which is my point!

IIRC, the drive on the 09 is actually a read/write drive, designed for higher mechanical precision and operational specs than read-only drives. This may be the reason for the frustratingly high failure rate.

I for one have no problems outside of the drive issues with the 09... I had mine replaced at the 2 year mark and a little over a year later I had a DVD in my DV-59AVi that I was not done watching and went to play a CD in the 09 and got the cannot read error on a CD... Playing around I found that over 50% of the CDs I tried would not read.. The DVD and BD have played flawlessly and since I use my 59AVi mostly for CDs anyway, I have not pursued fixing the drive for CDs. I have gone to the dark side for 3D.... I bought a Panasonic DMP-BDT220 to go with my Panasonic VIERA TC-L55ET5 3D TV. I still use the BDP-09FD for everything blu-ray outside of 3D disks.

Fred

I'm thinking anyone who fails to hear the superior qualities of the 09FD probably does not have a 2 channel system and/or isn't getting the audio directly from the 09FD's analog outputs.

It definitely depends on one's system. It would most likely be impossible to hear any difference if the system is a Walmart HTIB.... The higher the quality the rest of the system, the more you hear, and the more pronounced the difference will be in the sound quality of various sources. I have Krell gear and their big monoblocks; the differences are really obvious.

Superior to what? I don't doubt that 09FD is a stellar CD player, but there are better (subjectively) and/or comparable.

Prior to my initial drive failure I played a variety of CDs on the 09 and came to the conclusion that I preferred using my DV-59AVi DVD player via iLink for CDs. However I do love the 09's 7.1 decoding for hi-def sound on my BDs.

Fred

cbono said "the superior qualities of the 09FD"

Superior doesn't necessarily refer to a direct comparison to something else; it often means "Of great value or excellence; extraordinary." (American Heritage Dictionary)

Thank you "mgfred". I know the definition of "superior", but in most cases when I hear the use of the word as it relates to inanimate objects (blu-ray players, CD players, AVRs, etc.) it is being used as a direct comparison. This is what most do on the AVS Forums; make direct comparisons. How else can we decide when it is time to upgrade or standpat.

Superior: excellent of its kind : better "Merriam-Webster".
Edited by bakerwi - 1/14/13 at 7:19am

I applaud your erudition.
That's fine - you're perfectly entitled to your semantic interpretations; that doesn't necessarily mean that others must, or care to, share them.

I doubt, for instance, that Theta would feel obligated to re-name their Superior DAC product because it lacks a reference or comparison to specific other DACs.

To be clear, I purchased my 09FD to view films in a 2 channel turntable dominated audio system.

Based upon everything else I've personally heard in my system I believe the 09FD sounds superior playing BDs and DVDs. I imagine there are better stand alone CD audio components out there. If one of them could play a BD, I'd want it. TEAC's Esoteric DVD players probably sound better than the 09FD playing DVDs and CDs, and may even do a better job of upconverting DVD video to 1080p, but they can't play BDs.

The 09FD's sore points are load times (who really cares) and reliability (EVERYONE cares). My 09FD was repaired (luckily) under warranty for the unforgiveable CAN'T PLAY problem which many 09FD owners have been plagued by. Since the repair I've not had any problems except playing some/too many Blockbuster At Home BDs. Still, my lack of confidence in the product makes me believe its days are numbered. Unlike anything else I may ever replace/upgrade in my system, I'm at a loss as how my next BD player will ever even match the sound quality of the 09FD. That's what I meant when I said the 09FD has superior audio qualities. And, FWIW, if my 09FD died today I'd replace it with the Oppo BDP-105 because that seems to be new (albeit lower) sonic high bar for BDs and DVDs in a 2 channel audio system.
Edited by cbono - 1/14/13 at 11:42am

I am not sure if anyone has posted this but it is useful information... I have a Pioneer BDP-09FD... I noticed that it would not play "Blade Runner" (the screen remains blank and freezes) and "The Sum of All Fears" would freeze at the opening "Paramount High Definition" splash screen (as well as some other titles). I know the discs were fine because it plays perfectly fine on my Sony BDP-S580 Blu-Ray player. I thought the Pioneer was doomed to an optical drive failure.

I went into the Pioneer's set up and formatted the BD-Live memory as well as disabled BD-Live (since I did not have any internet connection). The BDP-09FD now plays all the problematic discs with no issues.

I currently have a Pioneer Elite DV-37 DVD Player connected via Component cables to a Panasonic CT-36HX41 36" Tube HDTV.
The Panasonic Tube HDTV can do 480p or 1080i over Component connection, so the HD DVR cable box is connected to it via Component 1 for 1080i, and the Pioneer DV-37 with Component 2 at 480p.
What I'm looking to do is replace the DV-37 with a Blu-Ray player, but it needs to support 1080i over Component when playing Blu-Ray movies (as some newer models will down convert Blue-Ray to 480i/p over Component).

I read the manuals for the Pioneer BDP-51FD, 05, and 09, and clearly the 09 is the highest-end model, but I'm not liking all these problems & issues talked about here that the 09 has started to have in the past few years. I was thinking of looking for a used one, but now I'm not sure. Also, I thought the Marantz UD7006 could be an alternative, but people have reported issues with it too.

Can anyone recommend a good (or very good) Blu-Ray/DVD player that has the video/audio quality that I'm looking for, but still can play Blu-Ray movies over component at 1080i?
Eventually when my Panasonic Tube HDTV goes out, I'll be replacing it (Plasma probably, or OLED is prices drop), but until then I'll keep using it for now.

Oppo's previous flagship model the BDP-95 might be your best choice.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-95/

The newer models do not support component video at all - something I just learned. I too would need component connections if ever I were to replace my BDP-09FD as connected to my first generation Panasonic plasma. Now I have to hope my panel dies before my BD player - thanks FAUguy

Which Bladerunner disc was giving you the problem? I have it and if my memory serves me right it's a 5 disk set.

Fred

I checked the manual for the Oppo BDP-95 and yes, it also does support Blu-Ray output at 1080i over component.
But the video specs don't list if it's using 12,14, or 16-bit processing. I know the Pioneer BDP-09 has 16-bit, one of the few Blu-Ray players that does.
With the Oppo 95 going for $1000 new, would have to look at a used one.
Still, to bad the Pioneer 09 has the drive issues, otherwise I'd pick up one of those.

But whenever my Panasonic Tube HDTV goes out, and I have to replace it, then would probably opt a higher-end multi-player, such as the McIntosh MVP891.

The final cut... It works now after formatting the memory. I have a friend with similar issues. He was going to sell the 09 but is now happy that I found a resolution.

Of all the blu-ray players I have had/tried out in my rack this is the one I could never get my hands on! I see some in outstanding condition go for roughly 700-800 dollars but after doing some research on this thread....is it safe to say to not even waster my money on it?? I mean, I dont mind paying the $700 for it because I do know of its capabilities but then again, I would mind a whole lot having to shell out ANOTHER say $500-600 to get it repaired a year or so down the line

What do you all think?

A lot of us on here, myself included, have complained about the "UNRECOGNIZED DISC" problem. What's entirely unclear is the percentage of 09FDs manufactured with bad drives. What does seem clearer is that there is no pattern of recurring problems after Pioneer replaces the drive. So, under no circum$tance$ should anyone purchase a new or never repaired 09FD. If you can find an 09FD reasonably priced, certified as reparied (for example, I have the saved links and emails to my unit's repair) by Pioneer, it would provide you some of the best analog audio out there for BDs and DVDs.
Edited by cbono - 1/28/13 at 12:59am