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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 36

post #1051 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

Is it possible to make 2 different MCACC presets, one for music and one for movies? I feel the bass from my sub is a little strong for music, but perfect for movies. Can someone here walk me through how to do this?

Yes, depending on which model you have.

I have the VSX21TXH and it has 6 presets for MCACC.

Look in your manual for "advanced MCACC" , mine is on page 78.

If you don't have the manual, find it here...
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eEntertainment
post #1052 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by brijenjas View Post

Yes, depending on which model you have.

I have the VSX21TXH and it has 6 presets for MCACC.

This is correct, however it will not allow you to set different speaker configurations (large vs small) in any of those. Once you set your mains to small for surround, they are small in all six presets. Too bad because stereo listening is so much better with my mains set to large and plus enabled. I told Pioneer about this shortfall when I filled out my owner survey. Maybe they will change this in a future model because it is a pita to go into the setup and change it just to listen to music.
post #1053 of 5331
I ran the Full Auto MCACC & Full Band Phase Control. Upon completion I set the front speakers to Small. I then ran Auto MCACC with Keep SP System.

Question - Did I lose the Full Band Phase Control? When you select ALL under Advanced MCACC Full Band Phase Control is listed however when you select Keep SP System Full Band Phase Control is not listed.
post #1054 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

bolding is mine....

methinks this is why you are hearing a "total new system"...

changing your gain levels (unless you were clipping before) had little to no impact on the final result...

Really? That is very interesting. Wonder what it would have done if he had left the gain on the other amps at 70% when he redid that? Q, did you do anything drastically different? Maybe I need to redo my setup though simply backing off the volume on the other amp and rerunning MCACC completely fixed my volume problem.
post #1055 of 5331
Is there anyway to kick up the bass a little on my mains..one thing that I notice is that MCACC kinda hits the bass a little. My wife is starting to loose it when I keep trying to figure out which MCACC set sounds the best so far, and note I am a newbie!
I have been noticing a post that keeps coming up in here about the 30-50ms thing...just what is that and where do I check in MCACC for this? I have Mirage speakers up front for L, R and C and I know Mirages are a bit on the high side however I feel some bass is how can I say, muted? I wish I knew more both about MCACC and calibrating...I want the MOST out of my setup..argghhh!
I hope this info could help figure thins out...

Standing Wave:

Main....

No. 1 2 3
f 71Hz 250Hz 125Hz
Q 6.6 2.8 7.0
ATT 6.0dB 3.0dB 4.0dB

Center...

f 71Hz 250Hz 185Hz
Q 6.6 2.8 6.2
ATT 6.0dB 2.8dB 5.5dB

SW...

f 71Hz 250Hz 125Hz
Q 6.0 2.8 7.0
ATT 6.0dB 3.0dB 4.0dB

Ch. Levels...

L 0.0
C -2.5
R -0.5
SR -7.5
SBR -2.0
SBL -1.5
SL -7.5
SW -0.5

I also noticed in EQ that all the speakers have the 63Hz cancelled...is this due to bass Managment and the LFE?

In the EQ settings...most of the setting don't go higher than +4.5 and lower that -4.5 aside from my new Klipsch RS-42 Surrounds..they are set at -7.0 at the 125hz range.

L C R SR SBR SBL SL

63Hz --- --- --- --- --- --- ----
125Hz +2.0 +4.5 +2.0 -7.0 -3.0 -3.0 -7.0
250Hz +3.0 -0.5 +3.0 -3.0 -3.0 -3.0 -3.0
500Hz -3.5 -6.5 -3.5 -3.0 -1.0 -1.0 -3.0
1kHz -0.5 -0.5 -0.5 -4.0 +2.5 +2.5 -4.0
2kHz +3.5 +3.0 +3.5 +3.5 +0.5 +0.5 +3.5
4kHz -1.5 -2.5 -1.5 +2.5 -2.5 -2.5 +2.5
8kHz +0.5 -1.0 +0.5 -1.0 -2.5 -2.5 -1.0
16kHz -0.5 +2.5 -0.5 +2.5 +0.5 +0.5 +2.5
Trim 0.0 +2.0 0.0 +2.0 -0.5 -0.5 +2.0

I hope this helps in getting me in the right direction!

Sorry...the tabs didn't work that well here...

BTW...how long does the "breakin" proccess take for the sub?
post #1056 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Really? That is very interesting. Wonder what it would have done if he had left the gain on the other amps at 70% when he redid that? Q, did you do anything drastically different? Maybe I need to redo my setup though simply backing off the volume on the other amp and rerunning MCACC completely fixed my volume problem.

yup, really...

assuming a properly functioning amplifier that wasn't clipping in the first place...
post #1057 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBerger View Post

Is there anyway to kick up the bass a little on my mains..one thing that I notice is that MCACC kinda hits the bass a little. My wife is starting to loose it when I keep trying to figure out which MCACC set sounds the best so far, and note I am a newbie!
I have been noticing a post that keeps coming up in here about the 30-50ms thing...just what is that and where do I check in MCACC for this? I have Mirage speakers up front for L, R and C and I know Mirages are a bit on the high side however I feel some bass is how can I say, muted? I wish I knew more both about MCACC and calibrating...I want the MOST out of my setup..argghhh!
I hope this info could help figure thins out...

Standing Wave:

Main....

No. 1 2 3
f 71Hz 250Hz 125Hz
Q 6.6 2.8 7.0
ATT 6.0dB 3.0dB 4.0dB

Center...

f 71Hz 250Hz 185Hz
Q 6.6 2.8 6.2
ATT 6.0dB 2.8dB 5.5dB

SW...

f 71Hz 250Hz 125Hz
Q 6.0 2.8 7.0
ATT 6.0dB 3.0dB 4.0dB

Ch. Levels...

L 0.0
C -2.5
R -0.5
SR -7.5
SBR -2.0
SBL -1.5
SL -7.5
SW -0.5

I also noticed in EQ that all the speakers have the 63Hz cancelled...is this due to bass Managment and the LFE?

In the EQ settings...most of the setting don't go higher than +4.5 and lower that -4.5 aside from my new Klipsch RS-42 Surrounds..they are set at -7.0 at the 125hz range.

L C R SR SBR SBL SL

63Hz --- --- --- --- --- --- ----
125Hz +2.0 +4.5 +2.0 -7.0 -3.0 -3.0 -7.0
250Hz +3.0 -0.5 +3.0 -3.0 -3.0 -3.0 -3.0
500Hz -3.5 -6.5 -3.5 -3.0 -1.0 -1.0 -3.0
1kHz -0.5 -0.5 -0.5 -4.0 +2.5 +2.5 -4.0
2kHz +3.5 +3.0 +3.5 +3.5 +0.5 +0.5 +3.5
4kHz -1.5 -2.5 -1.5 +2.5 -2.5 -2.5 +2.5
8kHz +0.5 -1.0 +0.5 -1.0 -2.5 -2.5 -1.0
16kHz -0.5 +2.5 -0.5 +2.5 +0.5 +0.5 +2.5
Trim 0.0 +2.0 0.0 +2.0 -0.5 -0.5 +2.0

I hope this helps in getting me in the right direction!

Sorry...the tabs didn't work that well here...

BTW...how long does the "breakin" proccess take for the sub?

a few answers, and others will chime in...

"bass":

1) a couple basics. mcacc doesn't eq the sub channel, and yes, the 63hz greyed out is due to using bass management. mcacc will not attempt to eq frequencies below the xover when running "small".

2) many find after running mcacc for the first time that they find the bass "muted"... this can often be because they are "used to" an over enhancement in the "high bass/lower mid-bass" range (common in many people's rooms)... try listening to it that way for awhile and see what you think...

"other things":

1) without any measurements, we really can't tell a whole lot from the numbers you posted... however, there's a couple things:

- i would be willing to wager that the reason your surrounds are seeing such a large cut at 125hz is because you have them mounted pretty close to the corners of the room, and you are getting significant low frequency enhancement due to the corner loading... that's no big deal, that's "normal"...

- similarly, speaker positioning is also coming into play with the big boost of the center channel at 125hz (not to mention the big cut at 500hz)... is that speaker in an entertainment center?

- all the other eq numbers look "reasonable".

2) don't worry about reverb delay yet. after you get the basics down, it will make a lot more "sense" later.

3) your sub "broke in" pretty much the same instant you applied an input signal to it...
post #1058 of 5331
ccotenj...thanks for the reply!
My surrounds are actually mounted on either side of the LP..they are very close to the LP..about 5' away from both sides. This might be why?? Is it ok to give a little boost in the 125hZ on those or should I leave them alone?
The center ch. speaker isn't in any cabinet...it sits right under the TV on a open style three tier A/V stand. Should I adjust those freqs on the center channel? The center I own is a Mirage...MC-4. It has a freq of 59hz to 20kHz. Bass cutoff of 49Hz. has 2 4 1/2" drivers for midbass. Since the cnter isn't in a enclosure..should I be worried about the settings MCACC set for it? Could I bring the 125Hz down to about +2.0 and the 500Hz to a better +level or should I leave it alone and maybe run MCACC again a few more times...yikes..I wish one of you gurus lived near me!
BTW...the reverb is the 30-50 ms thing? How do I check to see what I have currently?
I drew a pic of my room and attached it....if that helps...the fronts are about 12' from LP as well as center and sub... MCACC has them as L=13'8, C=14', R=13'8, SW=15'1
The surrounds are SBL and SBR's are about 8 1/2' from LP and the SL is 5'5 and the SR is 5'9... MCACC has them set as:
SL=5'5, SBL=9'3, SBR=9'2, SR=5'9

I don't see the pic I uploaded..hmmmmm
LL
post #1059 of 5331
i think you should take note of your numbers (wait, you already have ), and re-run mcacc...

if you get results that are similar to the first (and if you are careful with your microphone positioning, i'm betting you will), i would leave everything exactly the way it is and use it that way for a month and then see what you think...

keep in mind that mcacc is trying to do (keeping it simple) is to make your frequency response flat... if you go in and change what it is doing, you are "unflattening" the curve...

anecdotal evidence over the years has shown that once people listen to their systems "corrected" for awhile, they like them better than what they were hearing before... "what i'm used to" is ingrained strongly in our minds, and anything that sounds "different" than "what i'm used to" will generally sound "worse"...

it's not totally unlike when your have a display calibrated, when you think about it... many people initially react negatively to a "properly calibrated" display (oftentimes the first comment is "it's too dark/it's not bright enough"), but once they've had a chance to view it for awhile, they realize that it really is "better"...

of course, none of that means that after a month or so, you might decide you like it "unflat" better, and you'll want some adjustments, and there's nothing wrong with that... but if you don't give yourself an opportunity to "get used to" hearing it "flat", you won't really know where to make those adjustments...

ymmv...
post #1060 of 5331
I understand and when it gets quite around here I will rerun MCACC...I have done so when I had the speakers moved around a bit and have 4 presets set in MCACC and I think my OCD is kicking in, and my wife is starting to get grumpy from all the switching I am doing in MCACC 1,2,3,4 and so on...lol! I did notice that the Mirage speakers that I have were tested somewhere in a site and was told to get the crossover to roll at 50Hz...should I leave my crossover at 80 or could I get better sound with the crossover at 50..especially if their range is 59Hz to 20kHz?

I guess what I am trying to do is what EVERYONE is trying to do..that is to get the most clarity, sound reproduction and clean and nominal playback from my VSX92TXH and what I have as far as speakers.

I did notice a couple threads ago someone switched to the THX speaker setupp and found he had better sound...is this advisable on a non-THX certified speaker system? I do know they are not ported and set at 80 at the crossover..not sure what other important specs are needed...just a thought!

Wanna get a laugh, I just noticed I talk with you on the VSX92's thread...the 70's were good to me!
post #1061 of 5331
I' also posted this in the Official Pioneer 1018 forum with no response.

I got home and decided to re-calibrate my system. Hearing I should first set the sub-woofer to 75db with the radio shack meter, I did.

Then when I ran the mcacc auto setup, I discovered my klipschorns were set to the max of -10 and the rest were set to -3 or there about. Checking with the radio shack meter, my fronts were way louder and the mcacc could not compensate I guess for the Klipschorns efficiency?

So I got to thinking, MCACC sets the volume to a reference level and then tries to calibrate to that reference. BUT if your fronts are just that much louder or efficient, then what.

Sometimes my system sounds great and then other times, I'm missing the stage presence. Low bass comes to mind.

My setup;
Pioneer VSX-1018 AH-K
Fronts - Klipschorns
Center - Klipsch RC-7
Rear Surrounds - Klipsch RS35's
Rear (7th channel) - Klipsch Quintets
Sub woofer - SVS PB12

And just to ad, the MCACC will ask you to turn down your sub if its to loud. I'm not getting this.
post #1062 of 5331
I just connected my new Pioneer VSX-9040 but the sound level from any/all inputs is very low. Almost seems like "muting" is on or there is some "attenuation" of the input signals. I have a pretty simple set up - two large fronts, a center, no sub, no side surrounds (small). I have the following connected to the receiver - a Sony PS3 Blu Ray Player, a CD Changer and it outputs to a Mits DLP TV. I checked - my connections are right - i hear sound coming out but its very low volume - from CD or BluRay or iPod. Even when I crank it way up - 40db or even higher, I can hear the sound but I think it should be much louder. I ran the MCACC - the sound tests during it were loud thru all speakers. I've even checked the channel input levels on all speakers. I had the same problem on a VSX-1019 which I returned to upgrade to the VSX-9040 that I now own.

Please help!!!

Thanks in advance for your help!
post #1063 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbike View Post

I just connected my new Pioneer VSX-9040 but the sound level from any/all inputs is very low. Almost seems like "muting" is on or there is some "attenuation" of the input signals. I have a pretty simple set up - two large fronts, a center, no sub, no side surrounds (small). I have the following connected to the receiver - a Sony PS3 Blu Ray Player, a CD Changer and it outputs to a Mits DLP TV. I checked - my connections are right - i hear sound coming out but its very low volume - from CD or BluRay or iPod. Even when I crank it way up - 40db or even higher, I can hear the sound but I think it should be much louder. I ran the MCACC - the sound tests during it were loud thru all speakers. I've even checked the channel input levels on all speakers. I had the same problem on a VSX-1019 which I returned to upgrade to the VSX-9040 that I now own.

Please help!!!

Thanks in advance for your help!

Your AVR is not defective. -41 is not "crank'ed way up", "0" or +10 is CRANK'ed. My SC-07 is often at -35 and my Lady askes me to turn it up because she cant hear it; very common for Pioneer equipment. However, at "0" it shakes the walls!
post #1064 of 5331
Before I perform the MCAAC setup, what volume should I set my sources too? For example, I can raise the volume up or down on my digital cable box - what is the optimum setting to "leave it at" forever?

Thanks!
post #1065 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbjd View Post

Before I perform the MCAAC setup, what volume should I set my sources too? For example, I can raise the volume up or down on my digital cable box - what is the optimum setting to "leave it at" forever?

Thanks!

When MCACC is running there will be no other sources working, other than the receiver...Once you pop in the microphone or go manually into setup, all sources will be exited. MCACC only calibrates the receiver with you speaker/room and acoustics.
post #1066 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ7 View Post

Your AVR is not defective. -41 is not "crank'ed way up", "0" or +10 is CRANK'ed. My SC-07 is often at -35 and my Lady askes me to turn it up because she cant hear it; very common for Pioneer equipment. However, at "0" it shakes the walls!

Thanks!!!!
post #1067 of 5331
I have been reading in this thread that one should do manual MCACC setups after the initial setup ran. I have noticed things like Reverb/Room Correction, Keep Sp. Settings, etc.. Does this only pertain if one is running MCACC via a PC hookup and using the Pioneer software? Doesn't MCACC via the receiver do that during Auto MCACC or is it best to do it again?
My PC's in the house don't have RS-232C (serial DB9) connectors on them...would it be okay as far as communication issues using a USB to DB9 adapter? If so, I would be able to venture into that realm!
Also, would it mess up MCACC settings if one goes into EQ and just adjusts ever so slightly the 125 to 500 Hz range...(just a little!!!)?
post #1068 of 5331
I calibrated today, first the 8033, then MCACC Pro Eq. My question is, I have the Sub's crossover set at 80 & the SC05's set at 80. The sub vendor recommended this. Yet, I now remember reading that the sub's crossover should be off. I'm hoping I don't need to start over again. If I need to defeat the sub's crossover, can I do it without calibrating the 8033 & MCACC again?
post #1069 of 5331
wow,such low speaker levels. When i run mcacc on my 1019 hooked to my SVS system with a sensitivity of 87db the levels on my fronts were above + 5 for mains and + 3 for the center . It set the sub at - 3.5. My distances are between 8 and 10 feet depending . Why are my levels so high , everyone else here seems to be around - 1 to + 1
post #1070 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Really? That is very interesting. Wonder what it would have done if he had left the gain on the other amps at 70% when he redid that? Q, did you do anything drastically different? Maybe I need to redo my setup though simply backing off the volume on the other amp and rerunning MCACC completely fixed my volume problem.

Mike, I had a lot of "stuff" going on in my system. It turns out I had a crossover "smoked". I have since replaced the crossover, purchased an SPL meter, and re-calibrated. My 2 pre-amp amps are set to about 60%. I set my speaker levels manually to a reference of 80db. Things seem much better, I purchased the Styx blue ray yesterday, the 1 with the Cleveland Youth Orchestra, and it really sounded good. I also purchased a couple of laptop coolers for my driving amps, and that helped with some cooling issues. Any way I did a db measurement during the blue ray playback and with the AVR at -10db I was seeing a consistant 100db's on the meter
post #1071 of 5331
I went thru the setup following work flow from page 1 for my SC25.

I have a few questions on some of the parts.
Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings. You will also be given the options to have MCAAC calibrate for symmetry, all ch adjust and front align. You may save each calibration to seperate presets or run just one of them, or run two of them. You will see these options after you select Keep Sp settings.

Does this mean that when you do this if you have the following set that when it goes thru the calibration it will store each of these to the assigned memory setting?
SYMMETRY : M1.MEMORY 1
ALL CH ADJ : M2.MEMORY 2
FRONT ALIGH : M3.MEMORY 3

So then if you go to step 4 where you copy M1 to another memory setting it is copying the Symmetry setup to say M4....but if you would copy M1 to M2 then you would have the following:
SYMMETRY : M1.MEMORY 1
SYMMETRY: M2.MEMORY 2 - Copy of M1
FRONT ALIGH : M3.MEMORY 3

Which leads me to how can one do the following to see what they like best in there system:
Auto EQ with Symmetry
Auto EQ with ALL Ch Adj
Auto EQ with Front Aligh

advanced EQwith Symmetry
advanced EQ with ALL Ch Adj
advanced EQ with Front Aligh
post #1072 of 5331
After I run the MCAAC and go back to change speakers to small the sub is greyed out. It this correct? Also, what happens when you set the sub to Plus? Thanks
post #1073 of 5331
Hi I have a SC-07 receiver I have 4 B&W 686 for fronts and surronds for the center I have a B&W HTM62. I have ran all of the mcacc calibrations except for changing the time delay. I have the tone control in bypass and have the dialogue enhancement off. The problem I am having is that my dialogue sounds dull it makes you think that you have a rag covering the speaker even though I don't. If I turn on dialogue enhancement it does help bring out the dialogue but I do not want to use the dialogue enhancement. I would like to be able to correct the issue by adjusting the EQ or maybe there is something else I need to adjust. The mcacc set my EQ for the center channel at 125hz +3.5, 250hz -2.0, 500hz -3.5, 1khz +1.0, 2khz +6.5, 4khz +0.5, 8khz 0.0,16khz -0.5. Mcacc set the EQ for my front right and left speaker the same which is 125hz 0.0, 250hz +1.5, 500hz -3.0, 1khz 0.0, 2khz +3.0, 4khz +2.0, 8khz -0.5,16khz -2.0. What should I adjust to help my problem with dialogue? Is there something other than the EQ that I should be changing to help my dialogue?

Thank You in advance for any help you can give.
post #1074 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiobliss View Post

2khz +6.5

Some things to try: Turn your center speaker up on its side, temporarily, to see if that makes a difference, or prop up its back or front to point it more directly toward listeners. Use the receiver's Dolby PLII Movie mode. Change the 2khz band equalization up or down (lowering it is counterintuitive, but I think it's odd that MCACC set this band so high). If the center speaker is recessed at all, pull it forward, or if it's adjacent to a hard surface, cover the surface with a soft pad. Try a different center speaker.
post #1075 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron_H View Post

But each mic location is only for one preset, right? So depending on where your listening position is in the room, you switch preset.

When I get this receiver I plan on testing different presets on different surround material. Like, for pro-logic-II, 80's movies, have a setting the helps spice up the dull/bass-less old soundtracks. And have a setting for my own personal tuning for multiple locations and then the rest of the settings to have a 'slightly' different 'flavors' just gently off the beaten MCACC path that sound good on musicals or action movies.
post #1076 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiobliss View Post

If I turn on dialogue enhancement it does help bring out the dialogue but I do not want to use the dialogue enhancement.

ok, i'll bite... it works, and solves your problem... but you don't want to use it...

why not?
post #1077 of 5331
The dialogue enhancement helps but it is still not correct. I also am not that happy with the way the dialogue enhancement spreads the dialogue to the front right and left speakers because when you have dialogue that was recorded to spread across the front 3 speakers it takes away from this effect from what I have demonstrated. I will use the dialogue enhancement if I can not get it fixed by some other adjustment. To respond back to a previous post I do have my center recessed. I have it where it sticks out about a 1/2 inch maybe I will pull it out farther. I have it angled up as far as I can go which looks like it puts it angled to ear height. There is nothing directly behind the speaker. I would say it is 4 to 5 feet from the wall.


Thanks You for your help
post #1078 of 5331
ok, reasonable...

getting the speaker out of the hole it is in might help a lot...
post #1079 of 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiobliss View Post

I have it angled up as far as I can go which looks like it puts it angled to ear height.

Do you have anything in the way, like a coffee table?

I've also found that the center generally sounds better when it's above the display and angled down vs below the display and angled up (when possible to do it).
post #1080 of 5331
Hi no there is not anything in the way no tables or stands. I can not put the speaker above the tv. The tv is a lcd and this speaker has some size to it and weighs 20 pounds.

Thank You
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