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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 7

post #181 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

As far as I know the THX certification was dropped for the US model...and I believe that the THX proprietary listening modes (THX cinema, THX music, and THX games) were dropped as well. Are you sure that it is THX cinema that you use and not something else?

I don't know that EQ numbers would mean much since our rooms are different. Plus I am too lazy to get them. Sorry. I have spent enough time tweaking the receiver, and now it is time to just enjoy!

FYI, Pioneer recommends 30-50ms, so I would just go with that.

I use the thx cinema, music, and game all the time on my vsx-03txh. I prefer them to the thx+PLIIx, just sounds better to my ears.
post #182 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

As far as I know the THX certification was dropped for the US model...and I believe that the THX proprietary listening modes (THX cinema, THX music, and THX games) were dropped as well. Are you sure that it is THX cinema that you use and not something else?

I don't know that EQ numbers would mean much since our rooms are different. Plus I am too lazy to get them. Sorry. I have spent enough time tweaking the receiver, and now it is time to just enjoy!

Yes I am sure I have THX Cinema

I know our EQ numbers would be different, but I was just curious as to how much different your numbers are from another, between the 30-50ms delay and the default one.
post #183 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

FYI, Pioneer recommends 30-50ms, so I would just go with that.

On my 82 and 59, they reccommend 20-40!


bob
post #184 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Yes I am sure I have THX Cinema

I know our EQ numbers would be different, but I was just curious as to how much different your numbers are from another, between the 30-50ms delay and the default one.

I have erased the default ones, but from memory the 30-50ms was attenuating 125 hz or 250 hz (cant remember which one) about 5.5 db whereas the default was attenuating it about 8 db. There were minor differences up along the frequency range ( plus or minus 1 db or so). But there were definite differences.

I found that 30-50ms symmetry sounded best and when I added THX Cinema mode.... it filled the low frequencies out so the sound was more robust and more powerful in a subtle but real way. I compared 10-30ms, 30-50ms, and defualt delay. I did not compare 20-40ms!!! Looks like I know what I am doing this weekend!!!
post #185 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

I I compared 10-30ms, 30-50ms, and defualt delay. I did not compare 20-40ms!!! Looks like I know what I am doing this weekend!!!

That's the team spirit


bob
post #186 of 5326
Gov, NicksHitachi,

I believe that gamelover360 has the European version of the 1018, not an 01 or 03, and that's why he says that THX processing was dropped for the US version...

With some of these options, it might be wise for people to specify which receiver they are working with.
post #187 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

As far as I know the THX certification was dropped for the US model...and I believe that the THX proprietary listening modes (THX cinema, THX music, and THX games) were dropped as well. Are you sure that it is THX cinema that you use and not something else?...

It was dropped from the "regular" line VSX-1018 in the U.S., but not from the Elites. FWIW, the listening modes are not available unless the AVR is certified; they're part of a package.

I bought an Elite specifically because of the THX modes. I became addicted to them on my previous VSX-1015.

Edit: Sorry, dkindig729. I didn't see your post which said essentially the same thing.
post #188 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

It was dropped from the "regular" line VSX-1018 in the U.S., but not from the Elites. FWIW, the listening modes are not available unless the AVR is certified; they're part of a package.

I bought an Elite specifically because of the THX modes. I became addicted to them on my previous VSX-1015.

Edit: Sorry, dkindig729. I didn't see your post which said essentially the same thing.

My apologies for the silly oversight. I have the 1018 EU version, which is beefier (150 watts per channel vs 130 for US version), THX certified, and probably some better internal components I would imagine than the US version.

As far as THX Cinema....I LOVE IT! I was reticent because I was thinking "gimmick".....but THX cinema mode allows me to keep my MCAAC calibration, S-Wave, and the whole shebang....it just adds some of its own secret sauce. I have no ides what but it definately provides the weight behind the lower frequencies that I am looking for......without become boomy. If I leave THX cinema off and just juice the base on the MCAAC, then it gets boomy and the sub seperates from my other speakers sonically speaking.

I also have crossover at 100hz (as per my speaker manual).

I will run 20-40ms and 30-50ms again, and do some comparisons with and without THX in the future when I get the house for a couple of hours. Probably sometime in 2010

Question for you advanced users out there. And I may be opening up a whole other can of worms here.....but what do you have X-curve at. I have it at 0.5 db/oct as per the room size chart. I wonder if THX cinema makes that redundant? Sounds like more testing is needed. You could literally do tests for 6 months with this bad boy. God forbid I ever get high end speakers that have their own settings as well! Good thing I love tweaking!
post #189 of 5326
While we are at it:

Anyone reccomend a great Blu ray scene that is reference grade audio and includes all the important sonic moments? This way I can just use one scene and not switch blu rays as much.
post #190 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

My apologies for the silly oversight. I have the 1018 EU version, which is beefier (150 watts per channel vs 130 for US version), THX certified, and probably some better internal components I would imagine than the US version.

More than likely the wattage difference is because it was measured differently. THX certification is just that, it is a certification, not a different set of components. Many receivers could pass the certification but the manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fee or for the testing procecedure.

From Wikipedia, "The THX system is not a recording technology, and it does not specify a sound recording format: all sound formats, whether digital (Dolby Digital, SDDS) or analog (Dolby Stereo, Ultra-Stereo), can be "shown in THX." THX is mainly a quality assurance system."

As for the "better internal components" comment, not sure where you get that idea from, but hey, if it makes you feel better about your receiver, it's all good.
post #191 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

My apologies for the silly oversight. I have the 1018 EU version, which is beefier (150 watts per channel vs 130 for US version), THX certified, and probably some better internal components I would imagine than the US version.

As far as THX Cinema....I LOVE IT! I was reticent because I was thinking "gimmick"....

I will run 20-40ms and 30-50ms again, and do some comparisons with and without THX in the future when I get the house for a couple of hours. Probably sometime in 2010

Question for you advanced users out there. And I may be opening up a whole other can of worms here.....but what do you have X-curve at. I have it at 0.5 db/oct as per the room size chart. I wonder if THX cinema makes that redundant? Sounds like more testing is needed. You could literally do tests for 6 months with this bad boy. God forbid I ever get high end speakers that have their own settings as well! Good thing I love tweaking!

The U.S. version is rated at 150 watts, too, "Continuous Power Output (1 kHz, 6 Ω, 1.0 %)." Pioneer chooses to promote the 130 watt "Related Power Output (1 kHz, 8 Ω, 0.05 %)." Both specs are in the US owners manual, along with the government mandated 110 watts "Continuous Power Output (20 Hz to 20 kHz, 8 Ω, 0.09 %)" rating.

I don't know what type of testing you intend with and without THX, but MCACC will ignore it, if that's what you have in mind. Listening tests, of course, are a different matter.

I set the X-curve as you do. However, it is not employed with THX processing, so it doesn't do much for me, as I almost always listen to one THX mode or another. Like you, I was s skeptic, but became a convert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBoomer View Post

More than likely the wattage difference is because it was measured differently. THX certification is just that, it is a certification, not a different set of components. Many receivers could pass the certification but the manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fee or for the testing procecedure.

From Wikipedia, "The THX system is not a recording technology, and it does not specify a sound recording format: all sound formats, whether digital (Dolby Digital, SDDS) or analog (Dolby Stereo, Ultra-Stereo), can be "shown in THX." THX is mainly a quality assurance system."...

To try to clarify: THX certification and processing are two different things, although they are almost always found together on the same equipment. THX certification is a quality assurance system, but THX processing sets a number of parameters, and runs on top of the various DD and/or dts processing formats.

In the case of the VSX-1018 (US version), it's all but certain that it could have passed THX certification. It appears that it was a last minute decision on Pioneer's part to drop the THX designation, most likely for marketing reasons, as it makes a clearer distinction between their top "regular" AVR and the opening Elite. In previous years, there was little to clearly distinguish between them. The earliest photos released to the press showed the 1018 with a THX logo.
post #192 of 5326
Can someone write a tutorial on how to interpret the reverb measurements so we know which timing to pick? (10-30, 20-40, etc)

I run the test but when viewing it is different for different channels, frequencies, etc.

I suppose we could just try them all like game does but I'd like to know why?

thx

bob
post #193 of 5326
do any of you guys use the X curve?
post #194 of 5326
I just purchased VSX-1018 this weekend. Had the Denon 1609. Audyssey seemed to work pretty good, but the MCACC seems to sound better. I also added a new external amp though, so some of this may be attributable to the extra power available.

My question about MCACC is can you change the X-over frequency for each group of speakers (Front, Center, Rear, Back, etc.)? 80, the recommended THX frequency is too high for my mains and too low for the center and surround channels. With Audyssey, the recommended LFE X-Over is 120hz, however this is overriden by the individual group settings. Anybody have any ideas if this can be done in MCACC?
post #195 of 5326
I glad that this MCACC thread is here. Being a newb (two years now) and sorting through the calibration ins and outs of MCACC can be frustrating at best. After reading this entire thread to this point has been a big help and I'm looking forward to more info, keep it up.

Thanx, Bill
post #196 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

While we are at it:

Anyone reccomend a great Blu ray scene that is reference grade audio and includes all the important sonic moments? This way I can just use one scene and not switch blu rays as much.

How about:

Transformers: Ironhide flip
Kung Fu Panda: Final fight Scene......Scadoosh!
The incredible Hulk: College Campus Fight Scene
U571: Any scene with depth charges
Hellboy II: First fight with toothfairies

Just a few that come to mind. You also might want to try here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=918734
post #197 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

While we are at it:

Anyone reccomend a great Blu ray scene that is reference grade audio and includes all the important sonic moments? This way I can just use one scene and not switch blu rays as much.

You know what I would recommend? My new favorite demo scene is chapter 24 of Max Payne Blu-ray. The final 5-10 minutes of this film has all the sonic moments you could possibly think of.
post #198 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Can someone write a tutorial on how to interpret the reverb measurements so we know which timing to pick? (10-30, 20-40, etc)

I run the test but when viewing it is different for different channels, frequencies, etc.

I suppose we could just try them all like game does but I'd like to know why?

thx

bob


I have posted this same question multiple times in multiple threads. I would love to hear a synopsis of how to interpret as well. BTW If you have not already done it, read the pdf instructions for advanced MCCAC here

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default
post #199 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

While we are at it:

Anyone reccomend a great Blu ray scene that is reference grade audio and includes all the important sonic moments? This way I can just use one scene and not switch blu rays as much.

If you want something to test musically, My favorite set up BD is Kill Bill Vol1. The vocal and bass guitar in the 2nd chapter is a great test for how tight and detailed your bass effect is and if you have reverb or phase issues. The audio all the way through the movie including "sonic moments" is pretty good. Lot's of good detail in the track, the sound of boots on rough hardwood floors, etc. I think its a great flick for critical listening, tweaking and tuning, not to mention enjoyment.
post #200 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

How about:

Transformers: Ironhide flip
Kung Fu Panda: Final fight Scene......Scadoosh!
The incredible Hulk: College Campus Fight Scene
U571: Any scene with depth charges
Hellboy II: First fight with toothfairies

Just a few that come to mind. You also might want to try here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=918734

Great....I have tranformers and the HULK. Bit what is Ironhide flip?

Also ZBoomer, I just assumed the wattage ratings were done the same way since it was listed on Pioneers websites. But you are probably right. I also figured the THX was dropped on the US version because it wouldn't pass. But the marketing angle make sense. Either way, don't ruin my fantasy that my amp is better than yours!!! I paid a lot more than you did since I am over in the land of taxes and more taxes.


As far as the reverb graphs, read the Advanced MCAAC manual here and then click on "Bruksanvisning VSX-1018AH-K" and select "English".
post #201 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

...Either way, don't ruin my fantasy that my amp is better than yours!!!...

I don't know the specifics in this case, but frequently Pioneer's European models match up better against their more expensive U.S. Elite versions (e.g. THX certification). Does that help?
post #202 of 5326
Hey guys,

I have an Anti-Mode 8033 subwoofer EQ on the way. For you guys using an external EQ are you running this before MCACC or after? I think I should probably EQ the sub, then run the MCACC EQ, standing wave and fullband phase.
post #203 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Hey guys,

I have an Anti-Mode 8033 subwoofer EQ on the way. For you guys using an external EQ are you running this before MCACC or after? I think I should probably EQ the sub, then run the MCACC EQ, standing wave and fullband phase.

Gov - setup the sub and run the 8033, then run MCACC. The 8033 will help MCACC with it's setup.

Bill
post #204 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Gov - setup the sub and run the 8033, then run MCACC. The 8033 will help MCACC with it's setup.

Bill

Thanks! I am looking forward to it! I noticed in other posts I have read that you like what the 15hz-25hz lift does. Are you still using it and what can I expect with my HSU 3.3 in MO mode?
post #205 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Either way, don't ruin my fantasy that my amp is better than yours!!! I paid a lot more than you did since I am over in the land of taxes and more taxes.

Haha, I hear ya. I don't care of my 1018 was made with flea market components, it sure sounds good.
post #206 of 5326
Regarding MCACC; the last three times I've ran it, it sets the speaker distance for my left surround speaker as one inch; anyone seen this happen?

I need to figure out what's wrong, it seems to set all the other speakers correctly, but is setting this one at one inch. It didn't start doing this until this week.

Any ideas?

VSX-1018AH-K.
post #207 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Thanks! I am looking forward to it! I noticed in other posts I have read that you like what the 15hz-25hz lift does. Are you still using it and what can I expect with my HSU 3.3 in MO mode?

Yes, in that range you will get about 3 more DB from the 3.3 in MO mode. I run MO mode all the time. Tried the others and it sounded flat to me.

Bill
post #208 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Yes, in that range you will get about 3 more DB from the 3.3 in MO mode. I run MO mode all the time. Tried the others and it sounded flat to me.

Bill

Perfect....I talked to Pete at HSU earlier today and he mentioned you as being the one to ask

Thanks
post #209 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBoomer View Post

Regarding MCACC; the last three times I've ran it, it sets the speaker distance for my left surround speaker as one inch; anyone seen this happen?

I need to figure out what's wrong, it seems to set all the other speakers correctly, but is setting this one at one inch. It didn't start doing this until this week.

Any ideas?

VSX-1018AH-K.


That is weird. Make sure the speaker is not loose in some manner. Then verify that their is no physical damage to the speaker that is causing a weird sonic output that is throwing MCAAC off. How to do that I am not sure. Maybe listen to test tones manually and listen for inconsistencies. Then you could of course manually set the speaker distance using your own ears and manual MCAAC.

But my worry would be that MCAAC will screw up the EQ and standing wave because of a bad speaker reading from that one speaker. Also check your connections.

Also is this in auto MCAAC, not some other mode where you have told it to only run certain calibration parts. Maybe it is sticking with the bad reading over and over because you are telling it in some inadvertent way.
post #210 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

I have erased the default ones, but from memory the 30-50ms was attenuating 125 hz or 250 hz (cant remember which one) about 5.5 db whereas the default was attenuating it about 8 db. There were minor differences up along the frequency range ( plus or minus 1 db or so). But there were definite differences.

I found that 30-50ms symmetry sounded best and when I added THX Cinema mode.... it filled the low frequencies out so the sound was more robust and more powerful in a subtle but real way. I compared 10-30ms, 30-50ms, and defualt delay. I did not compare 20-40ms!!! Looks like I know what I am doing this weekend!!!

Thank you gamelover and others for your interestings informations about MCACC. Especially I am interested by the "time "of begennig mesure of micro (30-50 ms or other. Is it possible the "time" is different according the distance beetwen loudspeakers and microphone combinate with the accoustic of the room ?
To give a personal information : I tried use Velodyne's microphone with a mix table on MCACC . At the good level it works OK for distances but was strange on reverberation and phase control.
I think MCACC great, bonjour de France.

Ivan222
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