"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 102

Couple of things you can do to tweak the sound:

Depending on your model, if you have an iPhone/iPad you can download the AVControl app that allows you to shape an EQ curve and also increase bass directly from there.

You can also go into Manual MCACC and adjust the different frequency bands manually after MCACC has run to punch the treble and bass more.

One thing that some people here will say and I tend to agree is that often we come to MCACC not knowing what a flat frequency response sounds like and we aren't used to it and therefor don't like it. But if you give it some time it might grow on you. I'd recommend not going too far out of what MCACC puts it at. Also, MCACC Is very sensitive to mic placement it seems. I have had wildly different results and I'm not sure why. One time there was additional background noise in the house and I didn't place the mic on a tripod and it sounded horrible. Another time I used a tripod in a silenced house and I really liked the sound. So be careful with how you are doing it and follow the instructions on page 1 of this thread.

And for house music, getting a subwoofer will add a tremendous amount of punch and bottom end to your music that will give it a whole other level of energy and movement. I definitely recommend putting that on your short list.

^ To see why the sound changes by a mile when you move the mic an inch, look up "comb filter effects" or similar in Wikipedia. Then read up on room treatments...

Yes, I will admit that my room is not treated nor will it likely be unless it is art or something the wife approves of since it is my living room.

I forgot to mention, the first time I ever did MCACC I did not cover up my leather couch where the microphone was. The next time, it was covered in blankets and pillows to remove potential couch reflections. Could also be what helped it.

I just found this article that talks about comb filtering in a very simple easy to understand way. Since we are dealing with single speakers during MCACC calibration and not stereo pairs as in this article, any comb filtering would have to come from reflections in the environment. I can see why you'd want to treat your room...

Question for you guys: MCACC can do multi-position measurements and then average them, right? Wouldn't this help to remove effects of comb filtering? You could put the mic in a few different areas along your couch and average them so if you're putting it in a peak or valley somewhere, it can get averaged out in the next location.

Sure. But then, where do you sit?

Actually, I sit along the entire length of the couch (or rather between my wife and I someone does). So in theory I should have multiple sweet spots, or at least, a compromise equal to all spots. Again, this is a living room, not a home theater...but I do want to make it sound as good as I can given my room conditions.

I have the iPhone app... Not sure what way to make the curve for treble booster etc... Is there a normal reference is it always different? Also in the mcacc settings I see each speaker has its own leveler... Again not sure how to adjust those to get what I want....


I am thinking about getting an woofer but don't require crazy bass. I'm more interested in highs and some bass... If reducing bass will help the jbls. That would be my main reason to do it.

Averaging several readings provides a better average result. It cannot eliminate all the impact of all the peaks and dips caused by the sounds waves interfering with each other. There are "pretty" treatments you can get. The other thing to do is to try moving the speakers and listening position around a little to find an optimal location. If the couch is fixed, move the speakers a few inches and re-run MCACC to see if the results are better or worse. Unfortunately, you might not be able to do much without significant (a foot or more) change in position.

Look for "Finger EQ" in the iPhone app. That will let you change things. Just keep playing with the shape until it sounds good for you. Above the center line emphasizes those frequencies, below the center line de-emphasizes those frequencies.

There's a MCACC menu item under Manual MCACC called (something) EQ. Can't remember exactly the name of it off the top of my head, but it should be easy to find, just look for the item with "EQ" in the name. What it does is allows you to cycle through each speaker and adjust the EQ at different frequencies.

Crossing over your JBLs and sending bass signals to a sub should help them run more efficiently. Whether that will translate to any audible difference, I'm not sure.

Thanks Don. I'll have to play around with moving things around a bit. I have maybe a foot left and right I can play with here. Although I am liking the way mine is currently sounding and have gotten MCACC to run repeatably ever since I removed leather couch reflections and put the mic on a tripod. I have a feeling running Auto MCACC with my "sit-the-mic-on-the-shipping-box with a bare couch in a not quiet room" technique that I did when I first got the unit was less than optimal Once I started following the advice on this thread I have a sound I can repeat and that sounds good to me even with potential interference from reflections.

But of course I always want it to sound as good as possible, so I'll play with some positions and run an average calibration and see what I can see. I appreciate your feedback.

History does repeat. In the 1980's graphic EQ was very popular on sound equipment. With the introduction of the CD came a heap of issues where people fried their speakers by pushing the EQ with this much higher dynamic source.

By the 1990's, EQs were rare because they seems to introduce more problems than they solved and simply because people did not know how to adjust them properly.

Now we have fully automated measuring system and I am reading about people 'customizing' those adjustments. Is this not the same as was done in the 1980's? MCACC sets the eq based on what it measures. If you change that, what are you using as a reference?

i've followed all the mcacc steps on the first page music in stereo sounds good.. and surround sound for tv sounds good as well but one thing i noticed last night was during american idol while the voices of people talking were loud and clear.. when artist were singing it was very low in the background?

any idea what this was?.. i tried on a regular tv speakers and confirmed it was not a broadcast issue..

Sharing my finding after zillion tweaking and trying... it now sounds FANTASTIC

Equipment: Pio LX73 (Sc35), 7.1 Speakers Primus, Sub Level - 1/2 way, XOver - Max.

Room: Carpet floor, Speakers more or less symmetry, Sub on Right Hand corner 90 degrees.

Preparation:
1. Remove all sofas or any tables in the room - KEEP THE SPACE clear (I have tried with sofa or with blankets... clear space was a revelation)

2. Use Tripod (or stick if you don't have tripod) ensuring microphone faces up. MUST BE AT EAR LEVEL bit below but NOT above.

3. Let Pio play for 1/2 hour before calibrating.. warm up helps

4. My X-Curve set to 0.5 before calibrations

5. Close ALL windows/ doors, shut down noise sources (fridge is fine), don't stand in middle when cal happening.

Calibration
Note: Memory is whatever you want to choose.

A. Run Full Auto MCACC in Memory 1.
- I used "All Ch Adj" - as this gives best overall balance despite my room is symmetric.
I have tested symmetric + Front Align as well many times... All Ch Adj gives the best results as suggested earlier in this thread.

- I do NOT select THX speakers (as mine are not top of the range).
I tested with THX on... seems something makes speakers drive hard...

- Speaker system set to B and surround on SIDE
I tested surround on Rear... not much diff

B. Copy all data from Mem 1 to Mem 2
Listen both and make sure both sound the same. If not, clear Mem 2 then re-copy from Mem 1.

C. Go to Speaker Settings and reset speakers:
- All set to SMALL.
- Cross Over set to 80
- I tested XOver 100 or 150 and get a slight bigger bass which can blur overall music. If you like more bass, use XOver 100.


D. Go to memory 2
- you can switch from Main Menu MCacc Data Check, 2nd Menu (Level Check). Or just come out of MCACC, change Memory ( MCACC button in your remote)

E. Run Auto MCACCC in Memory 2
- Only run Mem 2 with All Ch Adj
- THX is No
- You may choose to save other Memory spots with Symmetric and Front Align for your own sound test.

F. Copy Memory 2 to Memory 1 (both are calibrated ones)
- M1 is my gold copy

G. Go to Acc Cal EQ Professional and analyze Memory 2
- You can choose measurement, view, before going to the next step of Reverb time setting
- I have tried almost all time scale using symmetry and some with All Ch Adj and found default sounds the best (maybe coz I have carpet).

H. Run Adv Eq ENSURING EQ is OFF in Memory 2
- I ran with recommended 30-50 ms
- I did not see any difference between memory 1 and Memory 2 on comparison
However, Memory 2 is suitable for movie as I have more guest around in sofas hence I go for Multi-point calibration for Memory 2

At this Stage Memory 1 is confirmed as my Music Setup - Use Memory Rename to rename Memory 1 as Music

I. Run Stand. Wave Multi-point for Memory 2
- Memory2 will be Movie exclusive hence multi-point cal
- Note, first microphone spot is left then right and lastly in the middle. THIS IS IMPORTANT (see manual).

Once done, Memory 2 becomes my Movie setup

Hope the above helps. I spent many hours and now very happy with my Pio... It definitely rocks the house. Clear dynamics blending with overall sound , voice crisp and clean, all channels synchronised, Bass/Low Freq delightful and not over-powering. I wonder whether I need a sub Eq (like Anti Mode).
But in time.. I will see.
Happy tweaking!!!!!!!!

^^^

assuming it is in a room, yes you "need" sub eq...

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experiences!

Dan.

I noticed this as well and it seems as if this is just the way the sound is mixed for the show. The musical numbers seem to be mixed in 2 channel stereo, not 5.1. I noticed this was the same for the X-Factor as well. Whoever is mixing the sound for these shows is doing it this way.

Thanks for the info. It's always interesting to see what works for someone else, but I do have a couple questions...


Is this really a better way to use MCACC? I'm under the impression you would want anything that's normally in the room to be in the room while running MCACC. Otherwise once you move the furniture back into the room, it would throw off the settings. I remember thinking the same thing when I read your previous post about covering the sofa with blankets. This is the only part that doesn't sit right with me, but what do I know?



I'm thinking you meant "Run Auto MCACC." and not "Run Full Auto MCACC"?



Not familiar with your speakers. Are they THX Certified? I wasn't sure if you meant they are THX Certified but you decided against that selection because they aren't high end THX Certified speakers.

Just trying to clarify if there could ever be an advantage to selecting THX in MCACC, when you don't actually have THX Certified speakers.

For example, I'm using high end Paradigm W5/W5C Wall speakers but they aren't THX Certified so I never bothered selecting THX speakers in MCACC since I'm not sure what it does differently, or if it's even possible it could benefit me.

^^^

personally, i would not empty the room... an empty room presents a completely different sonic environment than one with stuff in it...

"Preparation:
1. Remove all sofas or any tables in the room - KEEP THE SPACE clear (I have tried with sofa or with blankets... clear space was a revelation)"

You're kidding, right? This is a little silly to suggest that people remove all their funiture from their listening area which is typically a living room. Besides, the calibration wouldn't be accurate because once the furniture is put back, the acoustics of the room change.

When you remove the furniture from the room your reverb measurements and adjustments will be shot to hell once you move everything back. MCACC needs to be run with the room as it normally is.

IMHO.

^^^

your "opinion" is in line with "fact"...

Run MCACC with all furniture in the room

Replying to above
- yes A is to run full auto mcacc

- Mine performed better with THX off... but could be worth trying with high end speakers even if not certified.

- it may sound silly removing furniture for cal. But i have tried with everytime but the best result was with clear space between speakers and microphone. For e.g i left tv, entertai unit, projector untouched. But reomeved the sofas n tablr

Since my room is well carpeted, maybe that helps....
I would suggest try with and witout and see which sounds best for you... afterf all its room dependant.

Btw thx for the remarks..... i like listening to views - right or wrong to my ears.
Dave

^^^

while you may have gotten results that you prefer, it's "not so good" advice, no matter which way you cut it... removing the table removes a reflective surface... removing the sofa removes an absorptive surface (as well as being somewhat reflective)... doing those two things changes the sonic characteristics... you are no longer measuring/eq'ing the same environment...

that being said, best listening results will ALWAYS occur when there is nothing blocking the speakers... if there's a table/sofa/anything in between them and you, results will be "not so good"...

you are to be commended for experimenting though... if you are pleased with the end result, that's all that really matters...

True - there's something to be said for seeing the degree to which room correction influences sound quality vs. the parts of your environment that you can physically control. That's assuming you're not switching rooms or moving to a new home to get better HT characteristics - although there may be some folks that would be willing to do the latter for philosophical reasons

^^^

yupper...

look how many posts that we've seen complaining about "low center channel dialog", followed by a picture of a big coffee table blocking it...

room correction is a boon to users*, but it is not a panacea... it can't help with fundamental issues... good speaker/sub placement still is a necessity (although certain eq systems make sub placement a bit more loose)...

* i'd better say it's a boon, since i whore it out enough...

Agreed - I noticed a difference in what MCACC did with the Mythos Nine center speaker when we moved a chair that was in the middle of the living room to more of a right angle. Not so much 'better' as 'different' as far as how it applied reverb settings and room delays. I thought the sound was 'clearer', but that may have been a placebo effect.

If you want to see what adding furniture back into a bare calibrated room does for reverb, re-run mcacc with furniture in the room and look at your before and after reverb results. I think you may be surprised how much the furniture will screw up your once perfect reverb.. But of course it will be corrected with mcacc.

That can't be correct. Your prior post says....


... because, "All Ch Adj" isn't available under "Full Auto MCACC", only under "Auto MCACC".

yea... probably was real, not placebo...

since you are a "tweaker" you already know this, but for the benefit of others who may be new and want to delve a little deeper...

before running mcacc, spend time moving your speakers (and sub) around... get them (the speakers) away from boundaries as much as possible... ensure there is nothing blocking them... stop, listen*, repeat... get your speakers in the spots that provide best imaging/soundstage BEFORE applying the tool...

also remember that subwoofers are very sensitive to positioning, and even a couple inches in either direction can have a profound effect on what you "hear"... as noted earlier, using "good sub eq" can somewhat ameliorate positioning problems, but if the listening poaition(s) are in a null, no eq in the world is gonna help...

* preferably with "good" recording that you are very familiar with... i tend to use both a "big orchestra" and a "small group" (chamber or jazz quartet) to do this...

Just want to report (maybe it helps others).

I did full Auto MCACC and then changed the speakers to small and crossover to 100Hz from 80Hz. Then I re-running auto cal as described above and it made some difference.
Biggest difference is that I now have more bass from sub. It was not there before. So you do need to re-run MCACC (only auto mode) to make the new settings effective and re calibrate after you run the FULL Auto MCACC.

Btw, although I have more bass now I do not like it as much as it is too pronounced. May go back to crossover of 80Hz(per MCACC) instead of the 100Hz (I chose it since my sats go to 110hz only).
I am running a 5.1 setup and I notice quite a bit of noise coming from the side surrounds more than I would like and not as much from the fronts. May have to play more with it as seems like the singer is sitting on your side.