"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 105

+1

that's not what I remember their main tech support man at the time (Curt?) told me when I got the DD18, maybe 6 yrs ago or so.

maybe Rob is not considering that standing wave/phase control is turned on by default in MCACC. I do know that those changed the response curve, so I ended up either turning them off or tweaking the curve some more. or maybe he's thinking it's like Audyssey. Interestingly, the SVS folks wrote the EQ1 manual recommending that if using a room correction system other than audyssey, run it 1st just like we've been saying Only D-Nice said do it the opposite (what Rob is now saying) & gave his reasons why but that system has much more complex level matching procedures, etc, which make it unique and really different than Velodyne's simple-by-comparison parametric EQ.

Unless I read & understand his reasoning, I stand by my own experiences which make more logical sense to me

I say potato, you say potahto

Running the SMS-1 after MCACC can change the sub level up or down since we are EQing the sub we are effecting the level after we already ran MCACC. I always run MCACC, then SMS-1 calibration and then I rerun the MCACC but only the channel levels.

Thank you for your reply. That makes sense.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this? Is this the general consensus?

Thank you for your advice. I'll look for something small and dense. I didn't think about that until you mentioned it.

that sounds like it could be optimal

can't argue with your reasoning on the channel levels...by doing it your way, you take all the factors into account. thanks for sharing that tip

The OP says Pioneer recommends data capture time period at 30 - 50ms, however, the Advanced MCACC Manual I just downloaded from here recommends 20 - 40ms.

Thoughts?

If the SMS handles phase then so long as levels are within the trim range of both units it should not matter since MCACC does not EQ the sub anyway. EXCEPT that it may "waste" one of the MCACC's PEQ filters on the bass, and force the SMS to "un-do" that...

I set mine up differently so did not really have this issue. Maybe I'll just go get a Denon.

you wouldn't be alone in doing that

I'm not in as comfortable a position on gear swapping as most of you are, sitting on an AVR that costs me $5700! But eventually, I'll also be in the D camp unless Pio does something really unexpected. I'm in no hurry, tho

Sorry Gov,
I read Rob's post and unless I'm reading between the lines, it's more convoluted than "SMS-1 >> MCACC".

I think Rob is suggesting the following:

1) SMS - AUTO eq
2) MCACC
3) SMS - Manual eq adjustments

I'm no expert but just don't see the logic behind this approach. The other suggestion to start with "MCACC >> SMS >> MCACC level adj ONLY" makes more sense from a flow perspective.

I guess there is no right answer after all.

KS

Sounds like a winner to me!! Thanks for the tip, I will try this one!

Either way will probably work, but you know how "anal" us geeks can be

Thanks guys I found that after EQing my level seemed bit low so I ran MCACC(just channel level part) and found that my sub was down a decibal or so. The trick is to run MCACC, run SMS-1, run MCACC channel levels only and make sure you didn't move the MCACC mic from the first time you ran it.

This all makes me wish I had SMS to try out and do before, during, and after measurements. Why don't one of you "anal" guys dump the MCACC settings at each point? I am curious to see what changes... I cannot shake the feeling MCACC will try to tweak what it can in the 60 - 120 Hz octave, only to have SMS come along and tweak again...

Can this system do spatial averaging (tune from more than one seat)? I was under the impression that it could not, but was told by a dealer that it could.

MCACC can tune for 3 seating positions

What would the benefit of that be? Downfalls?

Pro: Provides a better average reading for more listeners and potentially smooths the impact of comb effects and such.

Con: The average may not be optimal if it's just you in the optimal listening spot.

i ran auto MCACC on my vsx-1021 (5.0 speakers) and all my channels are pulled down.

MCACC channel level M1:
L -3,5db
C -5,0db
R -5,5db
SR -3,0db
SL -3,5db

MCACC speaker distance M1:
L 3,56m
C 3,40m
R 3,63m
SR 2,20m
SL 1,73m

i don't know why should all channel be pulled down, because the master volume of all channels is decreased compared to M2 memory with all channels set to 0,0db. how can i correctly pulled up my channels? i know that the gain is not linear therefore i'm not sure how to do it right. i thought one of the channel could be set to 0,0db as a reference and another channels should be set + or - db to the reference channel.

What post are you referring to? Would it be mine by any chance?



As we see, different manuals for different receivers say different things. Two things to keep in mind:

1) Different receivers may not have the same options for the MCACC time periods. The gospel would have to come from the MCACC manual for your receiver.

2) These are not "recommendations" for always using 20-40 or 30-50. The manual is trying to give you enough information so you can understand and choose the proper time period for your situation. The key part is "In cases like this".

Dan.

Someone else can verify my thinking here:

My understanding is that if your room has more reflections -- in terms of sound -- you would do better to choose a lower ms setting. I used 10-30 ms in our setup.

I'm new to MCAAC and just got a 1121k. Is the procedure on the first page still valid? I don't think I want to skim 105 pages to find out....

Yes, I also have a 1121k and was dissappointed with my sound after running the full auto MCACC procedure. Doing the procedure on page 1 drastically helped. Although taking the time to read through this thread also helped with my understanding of MCACC. Try the stuff on page 1, but I also recommend reading through this as you have time.

I concur. I found the Full Auto MCACC dB for each channel was too low for our taste. I ended up using a Sound Pressure Level meter and the receiver's own test tones to generate loud enough dB, and then did the Distance Calibration. Finally did the MCACC setup with those Channel Levels, and Distance locked.

Happy. Very Happy.

It's pretty much me and sometimes my wife next to me, so I think I'll leave as is.

Thanks!

(whoops, in regards to DonH50's reply:
"Pro: Provides a better average reading for more listeners and potentially smooths the impact of comb effects and such.

Con: The average may not be optimal if it's just you in the optimal listening spot.")

DD,
Trying to understand: Did MCACC set your levels lower than 75 db, or did you just prefer hotter levels and hence the need for SPL calibration?

Reason I ask is because I just used an SPL to measure channel levels for an MCACC calibration run from yesterday, and each measured dead on at 75 db (except for Subwoofer which was at 80 db with 0.0 level adj after MCACC).

Thanks,
KS

How do you turn off Advanced Surround effects?

I want to turn these off before I run MCACC.

Has anyone used REW to analyze your MCACC results? What sort of frequency response did you get?

I did mine from 20Hz - 8 KHz using a decent microphone and my Line 6 UX2 interface, and between 125-8000, it was +/- 4 dB with 1/3 octave smoothing applied. Below that it got a little wild, with a massive peak at 50 Hz. Comparing before to after, MCACC flattened the variations over the range and made a big audible improvement.

The REW subwoofer measurements closely matched what I got a couple of years ago when I measured manually with an AVIA test disc and my Radio Shack SPL meter. Back then I had a Denon AVR-789 with Audyssey MultiEQ, and MultiEQ did nothing for the 50 Hz peak. Audyssey made a minor difference by raising a valley between 50-100 Hz by about 3 dB, which was pretty inconsequential considering the depth of the valley.

Anyway, MCACC greatly improved the sound in my media room, which is not a great environment for audio. Without it, a lot of material would be unlistenable due to thin bass and exaggerated highs. Audyssey was also very effective as I recall. The biggest difference was not in the basic room calibration but between my 9040TXH's THX Loudness Plus and Audyssey's DynamicEQ, the latter being much more aggressive at raising the volume of the rears and adding bass, which was not always a good thing. I've been very pleased with the Pioneer, which sounds great and doesn't exhibit any background noise to speak of when nothing's playing. The Denon AVR-789 was bad about that, and so was the next year's model that I briefly tried.

How does one go about doing the 3 mic position averaging? I for the life of me can't find it on my receiver (1211k). Possible it is not available on mine or am I just missing it somehow? I'd like to try this in all positions on my couch since any number of people can sit anywhere. Could help with comb filtering in my untreated room as well.

I have an SC-37, and it's available under;
Manual MCACC >> Advanced EQ.

It should be the last option after time delay setting ( 20-40 ms, 30-50 ms, etc) and will be called "Standing Wave Multi point..." or something similar.

If you're looking top down at the couch facing the TV, the diagram in the SC manual lists the EQ order as follows:

1) 2nd position (left seating) - this should be starting point for mic before engaging multi point EQ.

2) 3rd position (right seating)

3) Main listening position (center)

Hope the 1121k has it!

KS

Thanks! Yep sure does have it. Sure is burried in there and I was going through the manual searching for things like "averaging"

Running it now, we'll see how it compares to non multi-point

EDIT: multi-point cal seems to be better for my room. It has a slight edge in the fullness of the sound and since I'm not guaranteed to be in the same listening position, I think I've got a winner here.