"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 108

Originally Posted by lexicon1

The MCACC system is in just about all new Pioneer units, yet setup and tweaking questions are scattered throughout the AVSFORUM.
Since MCACC is a common feature, I have been given the go ahead to start an
OFFICIAL MCACC thread.
There is an "Audyssey" thread where common problems get answered by their "pro's" and I am hoping that those typical MCACC questions get asked and answered here since not every knowledgeable MCACC expert hits every Pioneer thread.

The advantage is that MCACC questions could be centrally located and those questions dont bog down the individual Pioneer model threads.

Here are a few links that may give very basic info on MCACC, if you have more, let me know to include them.
I dont know how to link words to the web address, but hope posting the links works ok.

Short definition of MCACC
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...s/Tuning/MCACC

Pioneer's description of what MCACC does, click on link to see their demonstration:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/4.../AF_MCACC.html

Some info using Advanced MCACC and X-Curve for a particular unit that looked informative....
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avrecei...er/index1.html

Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).

The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default

Some helpful hints contributed by "Gamelover360", the original posting is on page 3
Thanks Gamelover360 for your contribution.
"OK....This is what I feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.

Work Flow:

1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).

2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)

3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings. You will also be given the options to have MCAAC calibrate for symmetry, all ch adjust and front align. You may save each calibration to seperate presets or run just one of them, or run two of them. You will see these options after you select Keep Sp settings.

4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration(s) saved to M1 (or to multiple presets if you chose more than one EQ calibration type in previous step: symmetry, front align, and all ch adjust) (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to as many other free presets as you like.

5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.

6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.

Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.

7) Change to the appropriate MCAAC preset before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. You choose which preset, but I would recommend a preset that is a carbon copy of an auto MCAAC calibration so that you can do an A-B comparison between auto EQ and advanced EQ. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)

Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in a preset with the advanced EQ effects in other presets while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in a preset, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in other presets.

Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)

VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)

If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering."

Note: Auto MCAAC select delay capture time based upon you rooom ,and I have no idea how it does this or how to know what it chose as a delay time. that is why I recommend using advanved EQ.
gamelover360 is offline Forward Message

Originally Posted by TornadoTJ

While playing back music or a movie, hit the triangle button. Near the center of the top row is a speaker icon, select that. This is your PS3's volume control. Set it to the center setting, it will say Normal below the volume level bar.

Originally Posted by ccotenj

it's an acoustic measurement... keep in mind what we refer to as "distances" are really "delays"...

Originally Posted by billt1111

Good point, but I have a followup question. The MCACC calibration on my SW places my speakers at 27' instead of 15'. No problem, it is just a delay issue. However, the SW level adjustment puts the channel at +12dbm!! When I try to listen to anything (HT or 2 channel audio) the SW booms so loudly no one can stand it for more than a few seconds. I have to turn it down to -4dbm, a 16dbm difference.

There are big SW discrepancies from MCACC on speaker distance, and on channel level. I wonder why I am willing to accept the incorrect the distance as an anomaly of acoustics, while the SW channel level is so far off it is intolerable. It is as if the MCACC algorithm cannot calculate anything correctly when it comes to a SW.

Originally Posted by ccotenj

^^^

anything that is thx certified will have a thx logo on it...

in the end, it really doesn't matter... iirc (and i could be wrong, it's been a LONG time since i've played with one), setting thx to "yes" for the sub forces an 80hz xover....

Originally Posted by jd_alpha

Hi All:

I've just about settled on getting a new 5.1 set-up anchored by the DefTech Mythos ST Supertowers. If you're not familiar with them, each tower has a built-in powered sub. I have an Elite SC-57 AVR and the complete speaker system will be as follows:

fronts: Mythos ST Supertowers
center: Mythos Ten
rear surrounds: DefTech Gem XLs

I'm going to run line-level LFE cables out to each tower to the powered sub - all the other drivers in the towers will be fed by speaker cables from the AVR. My question is how to properly set the speakers in the AVR to run auto MCACC?

I guess since I'm using the LFE out(s) from the AVR, the fronts should be set to small?

Since I'm asking questions already, what's a couple more - Would anyone see any value in using another pair of STs as the surrounds? Or how about the smaller STS towers as the surrounds, which still have integrated powered subs? Could I possibly run 4 LFE outs from the AVR? If not, and I just had speaker cables going out to the surrounds, would I set them to LARGE in the AVR?

Thanks in Advance,
JD

Originally Posted by DonH50

^ That would be a heck of a room without modes, but yes MCACC usually gets the delay correct. At least my impulse response measurements look OK, or as OK as one would expect.

How many modes you have below 63 Hz depends upon your room. I only have one that is irksome, and my subs have a single-band PEQ that tamed it well enough. I also have a ton of treatment (absorption, really need to change some to diffusors). Other rooms will have more modes and sub EQ becomes more critical.

I still suspect the largest benefit of Audyssey is not the sub EQ, which is indeed worthwhile, but the much larger number of filters to handle the total audio band compared to the few in MCACC (does it really only use the 7 or 9 bands shown in the EQ menu?)

HTH - Don

Originally Posted by DonH50

My system is a special case but I have not read other posts saying they had trouble matching sub and mains.

It is almost impossible to tame bass room modes, particularly nulls, without filling the room with treatment. What are the dimensions of your room? I have a Mathcad program I can run... Actually, take them and go to one of the online room mode calculators to get an idea of what you are dealing with.

Originally Posted by DonH50

"Special" because my subs are in parallel with my mains using an active crossover to split the signal to the main and sub power amps. To the AVR they look like full-range mains. Sub integration is handled partly by the AVR and partly by measurements I took using a fairly expensive setup (though REW probably would do as well).

Try this one for room modes: http://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators...igenmodes.html My program lists a dozen or so from about 120 Hz down, but more importantly your room dimensions lead to anumber of closely-spaced moeds that tend to compound the problem (my room has the same problem).

Are the cased openings for windows, or are they actual openings into other rooms?

Originally Posted by B&W_Elit3

I'm hoping this is a good thread to post to for this question. My questions is, if I have towers as my fronts (B&W 683) and have a sub running on the setup, should I set the speakers to "small" or "large"? It's a 2.1 system for now and I've noticed a hole in the midrange sound effects when I watch blu rays from my PS3. The issue improves when I switch from Direct to Auto Surround, but it still doesn't seem as powerful a sound as I would expect in the small room I'm in. The towers are only about 4' apart unfortunately due to room layout, but that still creates an equilateral triangle with my main seated position.

Also, I will be reconfiguring the towers to be bi-amped in the next week, should they be set to "small" or "large"at that time if I still will have a sub hooked up?

Originally Posted by millerrh


Small vs. Large has nothing to do with how big your speakers actually are. If you want your sub to handle the frequency below your crossover, choose Small. If you want your fronts to handle all frequencies, choose Large.

It is usually recommended to set all speakers to small, especially in a home theater scenario.

Originally Posted by B&W_Elit3

That makes sense. I've had this issue for a while and I'm trying figure out if it's user error or not. I've had the fronts set to "large" and the sub set "plus" for a while now and the performance has been good but I still felt like I was missing something.

Originally Posted by Kurolicious


Change the speakers to Small, cross them over at 80hz and turn off the Plus setting. The Plus setting my actually be causing bass cancellation in your room. Also, check to see if DRC (Dynamic Range Control) is turned off of the AVR and the PS3.

Originally Posted by sonic debauchery

WHEN will MCAAC calibrate subs independently? MCAAC is behind to me. I can get an ONKYO 818 with Audyssey XT32 for a great price. It is a shame because i really like the elite line of receivers. But without sub calibration no way i would buy or recommend one!

Originally Posted by B&W_Elit3

Thanks, I'll make the changes when I get home. DRC may be enabled actually. Other than the crossover of the sub needing to be higher than that of the AVR, is there a rule of thumb to go by on where the crossover should be set on the sub? Sorry for all the n00b questions, just trying to educate myself.

Originally Posted by Kurolicious


Set the crossover on your sub all the way up.

Originally Posted by JustBusiness


Also, you can roast marshmellows on your Onkyo's heat sink, can't do that with an Elite.