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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 109

post #3241 of 5341
Been playing around with my ps3 slim and vsx-01. The pioneer can't apply MCACC when DTS-HD is bitstreamed, guess it lacks the processing power to do both. Kinda pointless to say that the AVR can decode DTS-HD when it can't apply MCACC.
post #3242 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I prefer having control over the sub EQ through the SMS-1 so I'm glad MCACC doesn't EQ the sub and screw it up like other receiver EQ's do.

ME TOO! I EQ my submersives with the Anti Mode Dual Core.
post #3243 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Been playing around with my ps3 slim and vsx-01. The pioneer can't apply MCACC when DTS-HD is bitstreamed, guess it lacks the processing power to do both. Kinda pointless to say that the AVR can decode DTS-HD when it can't apply MCACC.

I don't own the 01 but I don't think this is accurate as it wouldn't make sense. Unless MCACC is implemented differently on the 01 than it is from the 1019, then MCACC can be applied over any signal format (i.e., DTS-HD, etc.). That is, unless you chose to not have it applied.
post #3244 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Been playing around with my ps3 slim and vsx-01. The pioneer can't apply MCACC when DTS-HD is bitstreamed, guess it lacks the processing power to do both. Kinda pointless to say that the AVR can decode DTS-HD when it can't apply MCACC.

If this were true, it would be a 1st for a Pioneer AVR. Every model can add MCACC to any format. In all previous models I know of, MCACC is on its own processor chip, hence has nothing to do with decoding DTS-MA/HD, bitstreamed or as PCM.

I suggest a setup issue is at work and that MCACC may be turned off in your setup menu. You do know it can be manually turned off so wise to check that.

Also, make sure you aren't in Pure Direct mode. Even in Pure Direct mode, MCACC can still be on and providing speaker distance & level calibration; only the EQ is turned off.

What you may not be able to do with your model is add Dolby Prologic IIx & Neo 6 to DTS-MA/HD. In that respect, their earlier models lacked the processing capability to do that. Even some of the previous SC Elite models couldn't do that when bitstreamed. But they could add THX processing.

MCACC - I think you should dig around some more in your setup menu

BTW- I downloaded your manual and it reads just like all other Pioneer model manuals. There is nothing to indicate that what you think is happening is true.
post #3245 of 5341
MCACC light goes off with DTS HD bitstreamed. Comes back on with PCM. Definitely the sound is much brighter with mcacc off. I use THX cinema with blurays.

Edit. tried different setting. It can't do MCACC with Advance surround or THX. However it can apply with Standard surround settings. Going to keep using PCM on the ps3.
post #3246 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

MCACC light goes off with DTS HD bitstreamed. Comes back on with PCM. Definitely the sound is much brighter with mcacc off. I use THX cinema with blurays.

Edit. tried different setting. It can't do MCACC with Advance surround or THX. However it can apply with Standard surround settings. Going to keep using PCM on the ps3.


I've owned 3 Elite AVR's with MCACC and participated in many Pioneer threads over the years and have never experienced nor read anyone describe that behavior. Not doubting what you say, just puzzled. I have a feeling this is not normal with most standalone BD players. Because that would make no sense for Pioneer to deliberately design it that way.

It may be a Playstation thing. There may be some quirks with the PS3 connected with the Pioneer. And it may have to do with how the PS3 implements DTS-MA. Some earlier Pioneer and Panasonic BD players, for example, duplicate the side surrounds into the rears for a fake 7.1 sound which prevents PLIIx from being added, even as PCM. While other players, like the Oppo, don't implement DTS-MA that way and the Pioneer AVR can add PLIIx to its PCM.

it's possible your PS3 has a certain way it's handling DTS-MA data that your Pioneer AVR can't add certain processing...you may be right that it may have a limitation in processing bitstreamed data from the PS3. I have never owned a PS, so can't help there.

Do you have another BD player to try? or borrow a friend's? that would confirm it's the PS3 or not.
post #3247 of 5341
Here are plots of my room taken using an Earthworks measurement mic and R+D. For various reasons these are 1/12th octave, not raw data (I don't seem to have the raw data files, probably in a back-up; this is from a couple of years ago).

Unprocessed is the raw room but with the sub's single'band PEQ adjusted to help with the 37 Hz'ish room mode. MCACC shows the results after running MCACC, and the tweaked is after I went back and fiddled with some of the EQ settings a little.

I have made some changes since then and have not tried tweaking MCACC again (lazy) but I thought some might find it interesting to see what MCACC does for room response.
LL
LL
LL
post #3248 of 5341
I finally got my VSX-33 calibrated through MCACC and interestingly all my speakers where set to large, accept the center channel. Odd???? I switched the rest to small, and I gotta say it sounds good. The bass is tighter and more accurate. Although the channel levels where set a bit low, as I need to crank up the volume. Anyhow the sound is cleaner, and the surrounds throw action everywhere.
post #3249 of 5341
In case anyone needs the Advanced MCACC software, Pioneer changed the url where it's downloaded from. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Support/Home-Entertainment-Custom-Install/Detailed+Product+Information/A+V+Receivers
post #3250 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

In case anyone needs the Advanced MCACC software, Pioneer changed the url where it's downloaded from. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Support/Home-Entertainment-Custom-Install/Detailed+Product+Information/A+V+Receivers

Thx
How come VSX-53 or VSX-1121 are missing.
post #3251 of 5341
Thank you for this thread!! It made a HUGE difference on my SC-55!!
post #3252 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by iafzal View Post

Thx
How come VSX-53 or VSX-1121 are missing.
Not sure about the 1121, but the 53 is on the UK site:
http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/support/software/VSX-LX53/index.html
post #3253 of 5341
I'm noticing some light clipping from my center channel on occasion. It would be during a heavy bass scene in Dolby Digital. The signal source is from my satellite box connected through an optical cable to my VSX-33. I recently ran MCACC a month ago after using the default settings for year, and have been using the MCACC settings since. I haven't noticed it on bluray, but I don't use my bluray player to often. I mostly use my satellite box these days. It's not a big deal, but could be annoying when it happens. Could it be a speaker issue or the VS-33? Or both?

Thanks
DRC72
post #3254 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post

I'm noticing some light clipping from my center channel on occasion. It would be during a heavy bass scene in Dolby Digital. The signal source is from my satellite box connected through an optical cable to my VSX-33. I recently ran MCACC a month ago after using the default settings for year, and have been using the MCACC settings since. I haven't noticed it on bluray, but I don't use my bluray player to often. I mostly use my satellite box these days. It's not a big deal, but could be annoying when it happens. Could it be a speaker issue or the VS-33? Or both?
Thanks
DRC72
I have noticed the same thing on my SC-57 recently. So far, I haven't figured out what's causing this. My center chanel is at -3.5 so it should not be clipping. I'm also hearing this on my fronts. Even with the volume turned down I'm still hearing the distortion. I've run tests on my mains and there's nothing wrong with them so I'm assuming it's the AVR.
post #3255 of 5341
Could be the sat box... If it still sounds bad at low volume, it is not the power amps clipping, more likely something else in the chain.
post #3256 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Could be the sat box... If it still sounds bad at low volume, it is not the power amps clipping, more likely something else in the chain.

That thought had crossed my mind however, I'm hearing this on other sources including bluray's. I haven't tried this yet but if I plug my headphones in and don't hear any distortion, would that be a way to confirm it's not the amp?

My speakers are set to Small and crossed at 80hz with DefTech bi-polars so I can't imagine the speakers are the issue.
post #3257 of 5341
Hmmm... I do not know where the headphones are tapped off; I would think it would eliminate the final power amps. I assume the center is summed to the headphones. However, I am thinking the only thing that really matters is if it is the AVR or not, since no matter where inside the AVR the problem lies, it will have to be sent off to be fixed. If you hear the problem on multiple inputs, that points to the AVR processing/power amps, or speakers/cables (sure you don't have a loose cable?)

You could swap the speaker cables between the center and one of the front L/R (don't bother to re-run MCACC for this) and see if the problem follows the amp/cable or the speaker.
post #3258 of 5341
For the VSX33 make sure the speaker impedance switch is set to 8 Ohms...
This will allow for the highest dynamic range without clipping..

Just my $0.02.. wink.gif
post #3259 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurolicious View Post

I have noticed the same thing on my SC-57 recently. So far, I haven't figured out what's causing this. My center chanel is at -3.5 so it should not be clipping. I'm also hearing this on my fronts. Even with the volume turned down I'm still hearing the distortion. I've run tests on my mains and there's nothing wrong with them so I'm assuming it's the AVR.
I noticed it on my side surrounds yesterday, but it seems to happen rarely with those speakers. My center channel is set -3.5db as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Hmmm... I do not know where the headphones are tapped off; I would think it would eliminate the final power amps. I assume the center is summed to the headphones. However, I am thinking the only thing that really matters is if it is the AVR or not, since no matter where inside the AVR the problem lies, it will have to be sent off to be fixed. If you hear the problem on multiple inputs, that points to the AVR processing/power amps, or speakers/cables (sure you don't have a loose cable?)
You could swap the speaker cables between the center and one of the front L/R (don't bother to re-run MCACC for this) and see if the problem follows the amp/cable or the speaker.
I use 14 gauge cable with my two front speakers, but the rest of my 7.1 setup uses 16 gauge(except SW). I've been planning to swap the 16 gauge wire out for 14 gauge wire anyways.

EDIT: My apologies. I need to correct something. It's more of a popping sound, not really clipping. I'm thinking that the VSX-33 might be a little to powerful for the speaker to handle when cranked up? My center channel only handles 50 watts max.
Edited by DRC72 - 7/23/12 at 2:58pm
post #3260 of 5341
Hi, I've just upgraded from a Denon AVR 1912 to a VSX 2021. This is my first ever Pioneer receiver so I need a bit of help getting the best out of it. I have Teufel THX Select 2 S500 FCR speakers, Teufel THX Ultra M1000D & M900D dipole surrounds, Wharfedale Diamond 7.1 rear surrounds and a BK XLS200 sub. First of all I've run MCACC. It detected my fronts as large but got the rest right. I've reset the fronts to small now and crossover is at 80hz. Most of the channel vol adjustments that MCACC has made are modest and to be expected. So it's dropped each one by -1 - -3dbs. However, it's dropped the sub to -12 and the set up routine kept telling me that the sub was too loud and I should retry. In the end I ignored it - which is probably why it's at -12. What confuses me is the fact that the sub is exactly where it has been set for my last two Denon receivers and the Audyssey Multi EQ didn't reduce it at all. So why is MCACC doing this? My sub's crossover is set to Max (120hz) and the gain is set halfway.

Reading the sticky on the first post I think I need to redo the MCACC setup. But so far I'm finding the sound quite over bright, a little tinny and less rich than I'm used to - which I hadn't expected. Perhaps it's the combination of the Pioneer with my speakers? Or could this be a set up issue? Your advice would be appreciated.

Also what is the most accurate mode to listen to? THX?
post #3261 of 5341
@DRC72: The wire gauge does not matter for this issue. By "swap" I meant to literally switch the wires from the center and another speaker, so (e.g.) the center is hooked to the wires going to the left speaker and left speaker is now hooked to the wires from the center speaker. If the popping noise (which could be loose wires/bad cables as well as bad amp or speakers) moves to the "new" speaker position, it is not the speaker but rather cables or amp. Either way the next step is to replace the cables -- any wire will do -- and that will tell you if it is the cable wiring or inside the AVR.

HTH - Don
post #3262 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Hi, I've just upgraded from a Denon AVR 1912 to a VSX 2021. This is my first ever Pioneer receiver so I need a bit of help getting the best out of it. I have Teufel THX Select 2 S500 FCR speakers, Teufel THX Ultra M1000D & M900D dipole surrounds, Wharfedale Diamond 7.1 rear surrounds and a BK XLS200 sub. First of all I've run MCACC. It detected my fronts as large but got the rest right. I've reset the fronts to small now and crossover is at 80hz. Most of the channel vol adjustments that MCACC has made are modest and to be expected. So it's dropped each one by -1 - -3dbs. However, it's dropped the sub to -12 and the set up routine kept telling me that the sub was too loud and I should retry. In the end I ignored it - which is probably why it's at -12. What confuses me is the fact that the sub is exactly where it has been set for my last two Denon receivers and the Audyssey Multi EQ didn't reduce it at all. So why is MCACC doing this? My sub's crossover is set to Max (120hz) and the gain is set halfway.

Reading the sticky on the first post I think I need to redo the MCACC setup. But so far I'm finding the sound quite over bright, a little tinny and less rich than I'm used to - which I hadn't expected. Perhaps it's the combination of the Pioneer with my speakers? Or could this be a set up issue? Your advice would be appreciated.

Also what is the most accurate mode to listen to? THX?

1. A trim setting of -12 dB means the sub has too much gain. Turn the volume knob down on the sub and re-run to see if that cures the problem. It is also possible the mic is in a peak at the measurment frequency, in which case moving the sub might help. As to why it is different, well, you have a different AVR now, with different calibration. MCACC does not EQ the sub, which may be part of the difference.

2. You could try running MCACC again if it seems too bright. It may also be a matter of getting used to the new sound.

3. "Most accurate" depends upon the mix, but I would not worry about it. I leave mine in Auto, not having found enough change to warrant too much fiddling with it. MCACC is what does the room correction; after that, it is up to you which processing mode you like best. Try them and see!
post #3263 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Hi, I've just upgraded from a Denon AVR 1912 to a VSX 2021. This is my first ever Pioneer receiver so I need a bit of help getting the best out of it. I have Teufel THX Select 2 S500 FCR speakers, Teufel THX Ultra M1000D & M900D dipole surrounds, Wharfedale Diamond 7.1 rear surrounds and a BK XLS200 sub. First of all I've run MCACC. It detected my fronts as large but got the rest right. I've reset the fronts to small now and crossover is at 80hz. Most of the channel vol adjustments that MCACC has made are modest and to be expected. So it's dropped each one by -1 - -3dbs. However, it's dropped the sub to -12 and the set up routine kept telling me that the sub was too loud and I should retry. In the end I ignored it - which is probably why it's at -12. What confuses me is the fact that the sub is exactly where it has been set for my last two Denon receivers and the Audyssey Multi EQ didn't reduce it at all. So why is MCACC doing this? My sub's crossover is set to Max (120hz) and the gain is set halfway.
Reading the sticky on the first post I think I need to redo the MCACC setup. But so far I'm finding the sound quite over bright, a little tinny and less rich than I'm used to - which I hadn't expected. Perhaps it's the combination of the Pioneer with my speakers? Or could this be a set up issue? Your advice would be appreciated.
Also what is the most accurate mode to listen to? THX?

When you do your MCACC calibration, it asks if you have THX speakers before it starts. is there some reason you didn't say "Yes" to this?
post #3264 of 5341
I do not recall mine asking if I had THX speakers; is that new, or just something I have forgotten since the last time I ran it on my SC-27? I do not doubt it, just curious.
post #3265 of 5341
I can't remember exactly where but somewhere along the line MCACC does have a place where you can tell it if you have THX certified speakers. This just sets the xover to 80Hz is my understanding.

As Don has suggested, you need to turn your sub gain down (to a third) and rerun MCACC. Could be lots of reasons why your previous avr cal did not complain about the gain setting on the sub including things already mentioned by Don. Others could be the location of where the cal mic was located and how you had it mounted (i.e., tripod, etc.). MCACC only sets the distance (acoustic distance) and the level anyway for the sub.

For eq'ing the sub, you will need a separate piece of equipment to properly do this correctly. Take a gander through the sub thread on suggestions for equipment and all things sub related.
post #3266 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Hi, I've just upgraded from a Denon AVR 1912 to a VSX 2021. This is my first ever Pioneer receiver so I need a bit of help getting the best out of it. I have Teufel THX Select 2 S500 FCR speakers, Teufel THX Ultra M1000D & M900D dipole surrounds, Wharfedale Diamond 7.1 rear surrounds and a BK XLS200 sub. First of all I've run MCACC. It detected my fronts as large but got the rest right. I've reset the fronts to small now and crossover is at 80hz. Most of the channel vol adjustments that MCACC has made are modest and to be expected. So it's dropped each one by -1 - -3dbs. However, it's dropped the sub to -12 and the set up routine kept telling me that the sub was too loud and I should retry. In the end I ignored it - which is probably why it's at -12. What confuses me is the fact that the sub is exactly where it has been set for my last two Denon receivers and the Audyssey Multi EQ didn't reduce it at all. So why is MCACC doing this? My sub's crossover is set to Max (120hz) and the gain is set halfway.
Reading the sticky on the first post I think I need to redo the MCACC setup. But so far I'm finding the sound quite over bright, a little tinny and less rich than I'm used to - which I hadn't expected. Perhaps it's the combination of the Pioneer with my speakers? Or could this be a set up issue? Your advice would be appreciated.
Also what is the most accurate mode to listen to? THX?

I upgraded from a Denon AVR-2311CI to a Pioneer VSX-1121-K a couple of months ago. I wouldn't compare the levels and EQ's on the Denon and Pioneer. The microphones and calibration routines are different. I would read the first post and take a look at the reverb graphs. I took the time to do that a couple of weeks ago and selecting a better capture point made a good difference in sound. The dialogue became even more crisp and I got more detail out of my system. Also, make sure to select THX when calibrating and it'll auto set all your speakers to small. I'd try lowering your crossover to 80Hz too which THX mode will do for you. Bass above 80Hz. can be localized is the reason why.

I also noticed that Pioneer's MCACC calibrated the sound brighter. I got used to it after a while and noticed that the Pioneer had more detail but also more sibilance as a result. X-Curve can definitely help tame this. Selecting a better sample point also helps. The advantage I had with Pioneer in my experience is I could hear more changes in tones and better clarity than the Denon. I flat out hear stuff I don't hear on the Denon. Also, dialogue on the Pioneer is so much clearer and more pronounced. For some reason, the dialogue was alwasys low on the 2311. On the flipside, because the Denon calibrates the subwoofer frequences, the bass was tighter, stronger, and more refined than on the Pioneer and I felt Audyssey does a great job at creating a balanced and cohesive soundstage. More specifically, everything blends together very well and because the bass is calibrated it sounds warmer. Switching to All Channel Adjust on the Pioneer helped make the soundstage more cohesive for me.

Each receiver has it's strengths and they won't sound the same. You'll need to decide which sound you like more. I know I miss the subwoofer performance on my Denon so I'll be saving up for an Antimode to add to the Pioneer to address that because overall I like the added clarity and clearer dialogue the Pioneer provides. Definitely read up on the first post and this while thread and give the Pioneer a fair shake.

For listening modes I use Stereo, Neo 6: THX Modes depending on content (Film or Music.) and THX Music and THX Cinema. THX modes definitely tone down brightness and enhance the surround and bass for me. I use Stereo when I want to do critical listening.
post #3267 of 5341
Thanks for the encouragement.

I've gone through the workflow at the beginning of this thread again and it's yielded little improvement. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. The sound is so thin and harsh at the higher frequencies. The rears barely make their presence known as the sound seems to emanate solely from the front. I watched The Empire Strikes Back tonight in THX Cinema mode and the sibillance was painful at times. Really disappointing.

I bought this as an end of line model for a reasonable price but I'm now really regretting it. It was a display model but I was told it hadn't been used before. It's evident from the MCACC settings that I found in there (in Memory 6) that someone had used it and the BD input had been renamed as Playstation 3. I wonder if a reset to factory defaults would help? Can you do that? If I can't work this out soon then it's got to go and I don't think I'll be getting another.
post #3268 of 5341
Canary, are you running MCACC in Symmetry, All Channel Adjust or Front Align?
post #3269 of 5341
Canary, that is how my first experience with MCACC was also. I did some speaker placement adjustments based on recommendations from some articles I had read in some home theater type magazines. I also shortened up the reverb measurement from the default setting to 20-50ms, and that helped quite a bit in my room. I am using symmetry on mine as that gave the most natural sounding results.
post #3270 of 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks for the encouragement.

I've gone through the workflow at the beginning of this thread again and it's yielded little improvement. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. The sound is so thin and harsh at the higher frequencies. The rears barely make their presence known as the sound seems to emanate solely from the front. I watched The Empire Strikes Back tonight in THX Cinema mode and the sibillance was painful at times. Really disappointing.

I bought this as an end of line model for a reasonable price but I'm now really regretting it. It was a display model but I was told it hadn't been used before. It's evident from the MCACC settings that I found in there (in Memory 6) that someone had used it and the BD input had been renamed as Playstation 3. I wonder if a reset to factory defaults would help? Can you do that? If I can't work this out soon then it's got to go and I don't think I'll be getting another.

What's your room like? I originally was in an apartment that was heavily carpeted and moved to a place with hardwood floors and the sibilance was definitely more apparent due to the hardwood. Is that the case for you? If so, you might need to treat the room. Also, have you tried out the X-Curve feature?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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