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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 111

post #3301 of 4097
9/6/12 at 7:33pm
Hello,

I just got a Pioneer VSX 1022-K and am having a terrible time with, I think, MCACC.

I set up the receiver hooked up the speakers and TV turned on the power, etc. Went through the auto setup of MCACC, had video on the TV, test tones through the speakers and "thought" the test completed correctly. Disconnected mic, put on cover.

Switched source to SAT/CBL - nothing.

Tried tuner - nothing.

Noticed the red MCACC light on the front panel was lit, thought I'd overlooked a step in the setup process so I did it again. Same problem, no video or audio on tuner or TV. Tired the reset procedure and still no joy!

Is this red MCACC light always on or is it indicating a problem?

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong or is this receiver just DOA?

Thanks for any suggestions!
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #3302 of 4097
9/7/12 at 8:14am
Nevermind - I'm a moron. I had the volume control set at 6 thinking it probably went to 10 - that was WAY too low. Damn! LOL
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post #3303 of 4097
9/7/12 at 9:52am
It's a learning experience. Much better than a dead AVR. Enjoy! - Don
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post #3304 of 4097
9/7/12 at 10:25pm
Like Nigel says, best to have an amp that goes to 11! LOL

Don't feel so bad, I just found out one more thing I was neglecting to make use of on my HT gear. First was having used my Panny BD player for several months without knowing it was dumbing down HD audio to DTS and Dolby Digital. Why Panny sets them to play "secondary audio" is beyond me. I know of no other brand that does.

Just today I discovered I was using an optical out cable from my TV to receiver without needing to. Even my entry level Yam RX-V371 supports ARC. It took a little trial and error navigation through the Setup button, but it seems to sound a bit better now with HDMI return.

Back on topic. My assessment of MCACC so far is that while it's initial calibration does seem to compete well with the other lower end auto calibrators such as Audyssey's MultEQ and Yam's YPAO, it really drops the ball not being able to fine tune the EQ manually after a calibration. EQ wise the under $1000 Pioneers are either all auto or all manual, no in between.

Other than that, Pioneer needs to make selecting settings less of a pain, and their display readout more intuitive and flexible. They DO focus on bang for buck in many ways, but it's a bit of an oxymoron to cram a lot of adjustment options into a package that makes it hard to use them.

I'm liking the sound of my lowly RX-V371 more now that I've gleaned via an auto calibration on my friend's VSX-822 what sub delay is and how to account for it with longer than actual distance settings. The guts of this Yam are pretty clean at .06% THD. I may be happy enough with it to keep it as long as my Panny TV, which will hopefully be when better TV tech comes along.
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post #3305 of 4097
9/7/12 at 10:33pm
I did not realize you cannot go back in and manually tweak after MCACC on lower models. I have an older SC-27 and the ability to manually fine-tune after running the program was a plus feature for me. I was also under the impression you could not fine-tune Audyssey (except with the Pro kit). To me the biggest drawbacks are limited number of filter bands (although the three PEQ bands help a lot) and lack of subwoofer EQ.
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post #3306 of 4097
9/8/12 at 5:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I did not realize you cannot go back in and manually tweak after MCACC on lower models.

You can for distance and volume, but not EQ.
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post #3307 of 4097
9/8/12 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu18 View Post

is Mcacc set up any good for two channel listening>?

I know this is really old... but I'm slogging through the whole thread (I hate the "mega-thread concept for this reason).

I've been knocking myself out to make MCACC sound good in two channel. impossible so far. Every time I think I have it, when I toggle to pure direct, it is like all the synthetic echo as pulled away and it stops sounding like garbage.

I'd love to hear from somebody who is getting sonic value added by MCACC in two-channel (appletv music, cd, etc). I can't make it sound good. Still trying.

OK I'm going back to page 76 now. Meet you back here in a week.
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post #3308 of 4097
9/8/12 at 1:12pm
MCACC provides room correction to provide optimum phase and a flat frequency response at the lisnting position. Does not matter if the source is two- or multi-channel.

You can save the run to a new memory then tweak the EQ until it sounds good to you (well, for the upper-end models, apparently). You may also need to adjust the capture gate time window (see discussion on reverb times in this thread). Try all-channel and symmetry adjust to see if one is better. Etc.
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post #3309 of 4097
9/8/12 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozer95667 View Post

I'd love to hear from somebody who is getting sonic value added by MCACC in two-channel (appletv music, cd, etc).

count me as one. never felt 2 ch & 5.1 sounded worse with MCACC & I have had 4 top Elites with MCACC so am quite familiar with its effect. I use MCACC exclusively for all 5.1 music from SACD/DVD-A. For CD's, also. When I'm comparing one vs a new one or when I got an ext amp, I turn all processing off so I get just what's on the source but normally I use MCACC all the time.

There shouldn't be an echo effect per se but it may be boosting the mids a bit hot. But let's go back to some basic questions -

Are you using dipolar/bipolar speakers by chance? if yes, how close to the wall are they? because part of what MCACC does is measure the group delay and it tries to compensate for reverberation & subsequent reflected sound interferences depending on freq. If your speakers are too close, it may be throwing the measurement too far off. I have dipolar planars but they are 4+ft off the wall, so it's not been an issue. it also has a feature called Full Band Phase Control which attempts to min group delay differences between the drivers and all the speakers so that there is uniform phase. Try turning this off & see what happens.

also, how do you place the mic? it should be @ the sweet spot, with the dimpled mic end pointed directly to the ceiling not tilted forward or back, horizontal to the floor. If you have it tilted, you will not get an accurate measurement. it should also not be in front of a hi seat back, so that sound bounces off the seat back and hits the mic, which will also throw off the measurements. Put it on a tripod or a mic stand, close to where your head will be and above or on a seat back.

make sure you don't have any of the BS so called advanced surround modes turned on - they ADD reverb echo to fake a surround sound and basically are garbage modes that very few people use or should use. Use Direct for Stereo and any of the legitimate surround modes for surround and it should sound pretty good. It's possible it's boosting a mid or upper bass freq too much, giving it a chesty or boomy sound. If your receiver has the option for manual speaker adjustments, you can try cutting a few dB off the 125, 250, or even 500 hz if its boomy. If its echo-y or hollow sounding try manually cutting a dB or several off the mid-range - 500, 1000 maybe up to 2000 hz.
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post #3310 of 4097
9/8/12 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

MCACC provides room correction to provide optimum phase and a flat frequency response at the lisnting position. Does not matter if the source is two- or multi-channel.
You can save the run to a new memory then tweak the EQ until it sounds good to you (well, for the upper-end models, apparently). You may also need to adjust the capture gate time window (see discussion on reverb times in this thread). Try all-channel and symmetry adjust to see if one is better. Etc.

+1
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post #3311 of 4097
9/8/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

You can save the run to a new memory then tweak the EQ until it sounds good to you (well, for the upper-end models, apparently).

Yes but both Audyssey and YPAO allow EQ fine tuning after calibration even in the lower price ranges. I really don't get why Pioneer packs SO many adjustment options in their lower receivers, only to skimp on one of the most important ones.
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post #3312 of 4097
9/8/12 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

count me as one. never felt 2 ch & 5.1 sounded worse with MCACC & I have had 4 top Elites with MCACC so am quite familiar with its effect. I use MCACC exclusively for all 5.1 music from SACD/DVD-A. For CD's, also. When I'm comparing one vs a new one or when I got an ext amp, I turn all processing off so I get just what's on the source but normally I use MCACC all the time.
There shouldn't be an echo effect per se but it may be boosting the mids a bit hot. But let's go back to some basic questions -
Are you using dipolar/bipolar speakers by chance? if yes, how close to the wall are they? because part of what MCACC does is measure the group delay and it tries to compensate for reverberation & subsequent reflected sound interferences depending on freq. If your speakers are too close, it may be throwing the measurement too far off. I have dipolar planars but they are 4+ft off the wall, so it's not been an issue. it also has a feature called Full Band Phase Control which attempts to min group delay differences between the drivers and all the speakers so that there is uniform phase. Try turning this off & see what happens.
also, how do you place the mic? it should be @ the sweet spot, with the dimpled mic end pointed directly to the ceiling not tilted forward or back, horizontal to the floor. If you have it tilted, you will not get an accurate measurement. it should also not be in front of a hi seat back, so that sound bounces off the seat back and hits the mic, which will also throw off the measurements. Put it on a tripod or a mic stand, close to where your head will be and above or on a seat back.
make sure you don't have any of the BS so called advanced surround modes turned on - they ADD reverb echo to fake a surround sound and basically are garbage modes that very few people use or should use. Use Direct for Stereo and any of the legitimate surround modes for surround and it should sound pretty good. It's possible it's boosting a mid or upper bass freq too much, giving it a chesty or boomy sound. If your receiver has the option for manual speaker adjustments, you can try cutting a few dB off the 125, 250, or even 500 hz if its boomy. If its echo-y or hollow sounding try manually cutting a dB or several off the mid-range - 500, 1000 maybe up to 2000 hz.

I'm honestly trying. I have tried to skimp on the tripod thing but I will give it a fair try with a tripod before I throw in the towel and maybe even return the receive. But every time I've done it so far... when I toggle to pure direct suddenly the sound extends beyond the speaker boundaries, the bass becomes more pleasing, and it is overall louder. So in my guts I just have this feeling that the digital compensation is jacking things up. But I'll keep after it. Maybe the tripod will be a revelation.

I'm not too fussy about movies, and I don't care so much if the center is eq'd to hell and the voices are boxy. I can live with it - I can see it makes the dialog more clear. But for music, I just feel like I'm surrendering so much BODY in the music with ANY eq so far.

I will take some steps to make sure I don't have any funky dsp modes going on, and look into the full band phase control thing.

My EQ results have definitely been creating "hot mids" and I don't like it smile.gif But beyond that, it sounds worse even when I make the EQ flat. I can't quite understand why.

And I need it to work... because Pure Direct has issues too... I can't use the bass management.

Right now, I am using "front align", killing the EQ for good measure (even thought it is EQ'd flat), and using "direct" (not pure direct). It's ok. But for some reason, when I switch to "pure direct" it gets better to my ears... frustrating.

Not dipoles... nice two way large monitors with scan speak drivers North Creek Borelis mains. Should sound beautiful but so far a disappointment with MCACC.

Maybe it is all about the tripod.. maybe trying to hold the mike or even tape it to a coat hanger just isn't good enough versus a tripod. I'll try.
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post #3313 of 4097
9/8/12 at 7:18pm
I think I might be getting somewhere. Now I am using s wave on, phase on, eq bypassed, speakers small 80hz, and x-curve minus .5db (room is open family room but I'm not going too heavy on the x-curve pedal at the moment... I'm trying to get Direct to sound much like Pure Direct, and then tiptoe into the EQ world gently from there.

This actually might be giving me better sound than pure direct. on Pure Direct, it is still seductive because it is louder, but the bass clearly goes just a little tiny bit sloppy.

I'm going to run with this for a while ... at least till I can get a tripod. And then maybe just maybe I'll re-try a little EQ (I will be a reluctant convert there probably but you never know).

I'm liking the sound of this on my apple tv itunes (256 AAC downloads via itunes Match, not lossless). Liking it a lot. And this little SC-61 is playing pretty impressive loud and clean with 86db speakers. And as an aside, I'm finding the amp can push the full bandwidth pretty well - I mean when I switch to Pure Direct, full range to my big bookshelf mains, I don't lose any perceived bass compared to when I use a sub (ACI Titan, decent music sub but no SVS).

So anyway, does it count as "using" MCACC if you eschew the EQ? smile.gif Or do I have to embrace an automatic acoustic EQ?

I think maybe using the phase stuff is "better than pure direct" anyway... that'll have to do till I get a tripod I guess
Edited by dozer95667 - 9/8/12 at 7:25pm
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post #3314 of 4097
9/9/12 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozer95667 View Post

Maybe it is all about the tripod.. maybe trying to hold the mike or even tape it to a coat hanger just isn't good enough versus a tripod. I'll try.

smile.gif

You can sit it on a seat back, it just won't be right where your ears are wink.gif Just don't sit it on the seat itself where your "can" will be eek.gif

My speakers tend to have a recessed sound, being planar, there is a sense of depth, With the EQ on, it tend to bring the middle, between the 2 speakers from behind the plane of the speakers, more forward, so the middle is more in the plane of the speakers or even forward of it. The phase control tends to enhance this effect.

If I'm in a purist mood for 2 ch music, I'll turn the phase control off or bass only. For movies, I leave phase control turned on in the full band phase control setting. Just me, but for stereo, I want the speakers to have that slight recessed soundstage in the middle.

The nice thing is you can tailor the sound to your taste.

Hang in there. While the mic location doesn't have to be that precise, the closer you can get it to "ideal" the better. Again, just don't sit it in the chair seat. That would definitely cause some issues with the EQ wink.gif On the seat back will be OK until you get a tripod or some means to place it where your head will be. Also, I'm assuming your couch/seat is not right against the back wall. I realize that's classic American decorating, but if it is, the mic could be influenced by strong reflections off the back wall and the receiver is compensating for that reflected sound by boosting some freq's & cutting others more than it should be. If this is what you have, could you pull the couch away several ft? Or, at the least, this is where the tripod would be a help, moving the mic further away from that back wall. In the worst case, if you can't move the seat, you could place the mic on a tripod in front of the seat, at seating head height, to further minimize influence of back wall reflections. Maybe your couch is not against the back wall at all, but this just occurred to me so thought I'd mention it. smile.gif

Good luck!
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post #3315 of 4097
9/9/12 at 9:15am
on phase control: I have SC-61. There is a menu item "phase c +" where I can choose between 0ms - 16ms or "auto" but there is no selection to defeat it (unless zero = defeat).

Then there is a button on my remote labeled "phase" and that switches between "on" and "off".

Are you talking about one or the other?
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post #3316 of 4097
9/9/12 at 5:19pm
I meant - switching it on or off - that button

phase control + is the latest, updated & enhanced version of the original phase control feature.
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post #3317 of 4097
9/10/12 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post
I hate ASUS' version of the Realtek HD Audio Manager control panel. I wish I could install the old Realtek one, but this is the one I get with the latest drivers.

There's nothing wrong with using older drivers. Just make sure you don't auto-update it by mistake. The new Intel video driver has been known to cause problems, so updated drivers aren't necessarily better drivers.


Edited by LastButNotLeast - 9/10/12 at 9:01am
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post #3318 of 4097
9/10/12 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

There's nothing wrong with using older drivers. Just make sure you don't auto-update it by mistake. The new Intel video driver has been known to cause problems, so updated drivers aren't necessarily better drivers.

The problem wasn't in fact a problem, and nothing related to Realtek, ASUS or W7.

Turns out having set the front speakers to Large on my receiver, the sub is automatically disabled in stereo mode. I set them to Large because they are rated at 48Hz and my friend's VSX-822's auto calibration set his to Large. I'm not sure if that affects his ability to get a sub channel in stereo mode, but if it does, I would advise him to set them to Small. My speakers actually sound a bit better in Small mode, and it's more in accordance to what Yamaha recommends, as their drivers are only 5.5". Denon uses the recommendation that Small should be used for sats anytime a sub is connected to the system. I feel the best criteria for sat size setting should not be based on how low a frequency they can play, but rather how well they blend with a subwoofer. I can also see why Yam uses 2.0 on stereo when sats are set to Large. 2.0 is old school stereo.

On tripods for calibration, I can see how they'd be a good investment if you've been through a lot of receivers and/or make adjustments often. You can get them for as low as $15-$20. I merely used a wire coat hanger for my friend's, which I bent into a shape I could clamp to the top of his bar stool. I then bent over the top part of it to hold the mic in place. Worked pretty good actually.
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post #3319 of 4097
9/10/12 at 1:20pm
^^^

"large " does not "disable the sub"... what it does do is "disable bass management", and since there is no .1 channel in a stereo source, nothing is sent to the sub...

as has been stated many times before.... virtually all users should set their speakers to "small" (thus enabling bass management) with a xover of at least 80hz as a starting point (and unless proven by measurements otherwise, an ending point as well)...

"blending" the sub and the speakers isn't really a function of the speakers, it's a function of the room (and the positioning of the speakers/subs within the room)... this is almost always "easier" with a higher xover, as it is easier to reposition a sub than speakers...

speakers should be placed for best soundstagign/imaging... subwoofers should be placed to provide the best compromise of room modes... when you find those spots, the "blend" will happen almost on its own...
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post #3320 of 4097
9/10/12 at 2:27pm

My 1020 has a sub setting called (I think) "Plus" that allows sub output with speakers set to "Large." 

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post #3321 of 4097
9/10/12 at 2:54pm
^^^

yes... and unless proven with measurements otherwise, it should not be used...
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post #3322 of 4097
9/10/12 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

On tripods for calibration, I can see how they'd be a good investment if you've been through a lot of receivers and/or make adjustments often. You can get them for as low as $15-$20. I merely used a wire coat hanger for my friend's, which I bent into a shape I could clamp to the top of his bar stool. I then bent over the top part of it to hold the mic in place. Worked pretty good actually.

Found a $9 tripod at Wallmart in the camera section. screws the microphone right on and extends to 10" high. the camera section guy tried to sell me a "better" tripod but I told him it wasn't to take pictures lol. But I'm not sure it made an appreciable difference on the EQ versus holding the mic in front of my nose. I still cannot tolerate the impact of any eq whatsoever on my mains for two channel. I've just probably permanently damaged my perception of what is good by buying speakers and amps and players that I thought would produce the most pleasing sound with NO eq.... I can't bring myself to digitally cut ANYthing back.

I think maybe my next step is to get my surrounds in place and then try again. and, significantly (and I should have mentioned this) I have my mains sitting about 10" too low. They are big bookshelves, they are made to be on about a 10" stand and I have them on the floor. EQ could be compensating for that.

I think one of the auto-calibration modes will be valuable for 5.1 or 7.1, but I doubt I will ever wind up doing any EQ whatsoever to my mains for two-channel. I just don't trust it, and I can't tune it by ear at all (extremely frustrating functionality deficit that I can't move the eq while listening to music). And in fact, the lil engine that could pioneer sc-61 is driving my mains so satisfactorily across the whole band that I might just go with pure direct for two channel in the end.

But... I think for 5.1 / 7.1 there will be no substitute for MCACC eq. No chance I could feel my way to a good eq with 5 speakers.
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post #3323 of 4097
9/10/12 at 4:43pm
Careful with the tripods. I used a mini ~4" tripod on top of the shipping box when I first got my receiver and it sounded horrible afterwards. I think it's due to the close proximity to the shipping box. Next time I read this thread, used a photo tripod and got rid of any nearby reflective surfaces and it sounded much better.
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post #3324 of 4097
9/10/12 at 6:22pm
If MCACC works for multi-channel, it works for two-channel. Not sure what you (think you) hear but suggest leaving it on for a while and seeing if you adapt. A lot of people prefer various EQ effects in stereo that the room/speakers introduce and have gotten used to that. Not flat, but they find it more pleasing to listen to; you might be one. Nothing wrong with that but don't blame the correction...

I have a number of times wished for just an old bass and treble knob to turn on my remote since so many music CDs seem to be mis-mastered or blindly copied from the LP version without regard for modern systems and their ability to render flat. I find pop the worst but classical is by no means immune...

Wavelength of 1 kHz = 13.56 inches; 1/2 = 6.78 inches, 1/4-wavelength = 3.39 inches. You really need more than a few inches away from reflective surfaces. That includes from your head; one of my problems is a high-back couch.
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post #3325 of 4097
9/10/12 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

If MCACC works for multi-channel, it works for two-channel.

I know that is the prevailing view in this thread, and perhaps on this board. It is fine. All I can say is that when I switch to pure direct, viscerally, it feels like the experience for me, listening to loud pop/rock/folk music... it just sounds better. The EQ effect is - I'm happy to concede for the record - more flat. It also seems to actually introduce silence between the instruments. I like this effect for movies it makes dialog a little more intelligible, and I do not have quite the pre-bias about what it should sound like.

For music, I don't like this effect. It feels sterile to me. And I reflect on the fact that when I'm in a dive bar or at a fairgrounds, listening to a has been band play loud and bobbing my head or even dancing... I can't give a crap about how accurately I positioned the mic, or the damping effect of all the sweaty bodies rocking out... and I just like to feel a little more thump i my rump when I'm listening to music.

On balance I'm not knocking MCACC. It is doing what it is designed to do. I just find that, given MY tastes and desires for how I want to listen to music (whether seated or dancing)... the "front align" MCACC works best for me.

Think of it this way... I'm used to hearing the best two channel sound I can afford - without ANY digital room correction. For many years now. Suddenly you introduce this room correction, and yeah... it sounds worse to me. Not as thick and thump and fun. not for loud rock music.

It is almost like what happens when I put on polarized sunglasses. It looks different... colors look sharper etc. But when I take them off, I feel like I see what the trick is.. some of the color spectrum has been moved around and it is like some blue was borrowed from the sky and added to the green in the trees. Which view is more "real"? Who cares. Both have their place. I think that happens with the digital eq to do room corrections.

It's fine right? It is probably why they invented "front align" in the first place - for a guy like me smile.gif

And I'll keep toggling, keep trying, and keep waiting for the day when I decide Pure Direct sounds worse than a Symmetry or "all adjust" setup. Hasn't happened yet for me.
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post #3326 of 4097
9/11/12 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozer95667 View Post

I schould have mentioned this) I have my mains sitting about 10" too low. They are big bookshelves, they are made to be on about a 10" stand and I have them on the floor. EQ could be compensating for that.

yes and yes

the sound reflecting off the floor would make a difference wink.gif the mic just might be sitting in a bass peak enhanced by 1) speakers unduly vibrating the floor & 2) bass peaks & nulls occur from all 3 dimensions in a room - side to side, ceiling to floor as well as front to back.

if you want to give mcacc a fair shot, you need to do it right or don't bother.

get the speaker stands you should use, get your head out of the room (I've graphically seen my bass response curve change just by walking past the mic or being behind it).

look, have to say this, all of us have given you tips on how to do this from our own experience. Majority of owners, no matter what brand of EQ is uses, will position the mic as we've tried to describe, get themselves out of the way, even out of the room, aim the remote at the receiver from a distance not standing right in front of it and most are pleased with the results. Some still prefer the EQ off, but unless you set up the speakers in a decent common sense position to begin with, no EQ (unless perhaps the $15000 Trinnov) is going to help a poor speaker position.

Maybe you just like the bass bloat or thump from your floor eek.gif but that doesn't make it accurate wink.gif
I suspect you know this but bookshelves, even large ones, are designed for best response, on shelves, stands, or suspended from wall. Hopefully, you don't have them smack against the front wall either.

Stands, straight up or slightly tilted back are there to aim the tweeter to your head and reduce room interactions. Why did you not use them to start with?

A mic placed at your nose (how can u possibly hold it still and level thru out the entire 10+ min for the setup??) is not going to compensate for "less than ideal" decisions on your part on the basics.

there, I've said it. and it kind of makes sense now wink.gif

in the end, you may still prefer pure direct, but you aren't there yet because you're compromising your setup. If the speakers are meant to be put on stands, put them on stands! smile.gif

hopefully, you take this in spirit it's given....trying to help you. smile.gif
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post #3327 of 4097
9/11/12 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


hopefully, you take this in spirit it's given....trying to help you. smile.gif

yes.. good spirit. this is a good board with good attitude, and I appreciate the info here. I did get a tripod after all! smile.gif
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post #3328 of 4097
9/11/12 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
"large " does not "disable the sub"... what it does do is "disable bass management", and since there is no .1 channel in a stereo source, nothing is sent to the sub...
as has been stated many times before.... virtually all users should set their speakers to "small" (thus enabling bass management) with a xover of at least 80hz as a starting point (and unless proven by measurements otherwise, an ending point as well)...
"blending" the sub and the speakers isn't really a function of the speakers, it's a function of the room (and the positioning of the speakers/subs within the room)... this is almost always "easier" with a higher xover, as it is easier to reposition a sub than speakers...
speakers should be placed for best soundstagign/imaging... subwoofers should be placed to provide the best compromise of room modes... when you find those spots, the "blend" will happen almost on its own...

Well, albeit indirectly, the end result is still the sub channel not having any output, so it effectively DOES disable the sub in stereo mode. I also never said speakers control sub blending, in fact I obviously put that in the context of the receiver's calibration or manual settings. There is indeed a difference in what frequencies the sats get on Small vs Large, so it does affect how well they blend with sub. It's a lot like the way a sound card set to 2.0 vs 2.1 assumes no sub, whereas with 2.1 it assumes there's a discrete sub with the low frequencies sent to it at anything below the low pass crossover setting, vs the sats trying to play full range.

@dozer,
Good find on a source of affordable tripods, even if it IS via one of the most unscrupulous vendors in the US if not world, but why settle for the mini 10" when they have a 50" Vivitar (VIV-VPT-1250) on their website for under $10? In fact it's more like $7 with $2 shipping right now.
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post #3329 of 4097
9/11/12 at 5:48pm
^^^

sigh...

no... it's not a semantical point i'm making...

re-read my post carefully... i am correct in the point i am making... it does NOT disable the sub... again, it's not semantics...

as far as "small" vs. "large" and blending... again... re-read my post carefully...
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post #3330 of 4097
9/11/12 at 5:55pm
Why are people talking about satellites blending with a sub? A sub should be intergrated to the whole system if possible and the front stage. Using bass management is the easiest and most reliable method. Satellite speakers should alway be set to small since they are not intended to compete with the front stage. Using the plus sub feature is not a good thing if the system is setup correctly. 2 channel and multi-channel should soud good with MCACC unless there is something else causing problems. Bass response should be better in direct or stereo than in pure direct when using a sub in an HT setup.
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