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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 117

post #3481 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelly View Post

Thanks for the advice. I hope I'm not contemplating the SC65 for aesthetics. Do you know if the SC65 has a function similar to the Audessy Dynamic Volume?
Squirrelly....i'll defer to Steve. He has more recent experience with MCACC than I do. Don't discount aesthetics. Pio Elites always have been some of the best looking AVRs on the market.

Audy dynamic EQ is similar to Pio's THX loudness plus. Still think XT32 really nails subwoofer calibration. Performance wise, not heard the new Pio D3 amps. I've read a couple of reviews and they are supposed to be good. 4311 is one of the most pwetful AVRs I've experienced (have had quite a few).
post #3482 of 5315
ss9001 - The GOD of MCACC defender but mate you rightly cleared many myths running around. Thanks heaps - really appreciate it (sorry did not reply back last week).
Few answers to your questions first:
1. I love my Pio LX73 and MCACC but wanted to explore power amps addition difference.
2. I have tried calibrating MCACC Front Align + many more as suggested in this forum with Rotel hooked in... nothing dramatic in SQ.
3. Have tried Pure Direct - it is muffled and flat. Stereo (with MCACC settings) sounds way much better for CD play.

As an update I also bought a DAC (EE Dac Plus with no volume control) last week which improved CD SQ slightly up . I am planning to buy a music server (with ripped CD) hooked directly into my DAC later.

I wanted to have the option to hook my DAC directly to my Rotel Power amp (just to check how different it sounds if I do not use Pio as pre-amp). Option I found were Line Out (increases analog voltage if I want to close the voltage saga once for all) + Some volume controller sitting between AVR/DAC and Amp. Another option I am reading is some Equalizer with Volume Control and voltage gain settings sitting between my DAC and Rotel.

Anyone ever tried those options and which is my best option.?

Based on ss9001 observations, I am closer to selling my Rotel Power amp sooner than later if nothing worked out - My Pio is amazingly good after trying out options.

Thanks heaps again
Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

personally, I think you are, as we say, barking up the wrong tree.
1st, the input sensitivity of the rotel 1080 is (copied from their web site specs):
Input Impedance/Sensitivity: 1.5V, 32 kOhms)
in other words, in order for the amp to reach FULL power output, it should have 1.5 volts input.
2nd, some forum member several years ago got this info straight from a tech person at Pioneer for the SC-09, similar Ice amp design) and no reason to think Pioneer changed it just for your model:
For preamp out : output impedance is 490ohm.
output level for -20dBFs input , 0dB VR position => 150mV
-20dBFs input , +12dB VR Position(MAX) => 600mV
0dBFs input, 0dB VR position => 1.5V
This output level is determined by THX. (THX model is the same.)
in other words, to reach 1.5v, the volume should be at 0.0
and notice that if the receiver is THX certified, it must meet this spec'd output
if you calibrated the 35 with the rotel connected as your front 2 ch amplifier, it will have AUTOMATICALLY compensated for any differences in output by adjusting the channel levels for your fronts in order to achieve reference levels all around.
unless you have a defective SC-35 & its preamp opamps are weak & it needs repaired, your info is incorrect about being "weak".
I hate to say this, if you are thinking the Rotel amp is supposed to make it sound dramatically different used in place of the Ice amps, then I think you are going to be disappointed. I also use a hi powered class a/b amp, with much more power on tap than your Rotel (600 wpc @ 4 ohms) wink.gif and it really does not sound dramatically different. With MCACC off, the Ice amps sounded a very slight touch clearer on the highs, but the class a/b amp sounded a slight touch better on bass. I use it because I have very inefficient planar speakers and the ext amp provides better transient attacks (percussion, piano, etc) because of the extra power headroom and current.
If you are expecting a big difference in sound, using the Rotel over your Ice amps, then you will be wrong smile.gif. 1st, any freq response differences will be compensated by MCACC EQ IF you calibrated with the Rotel in use. 2nd, if you have stronger or weaker bass, don't use a sub or set fronts as Large, then re-run MCACC. If you do use a sub, then bass freq's lower than the Xover point are being handled by the sub, not the Rotel.
Instead of chasing rabbits, your choice should be, do u like the "sound" of the SC-35, meaning how MCACC equalizes your speakers? if answer is no, then get a different receiver using Audyseey or Yamaha's YPAO. Connecting your BD player directly to the amp using a DAC with volume control or a 2 ch preamp tells me that you prefer NOT using MCACC for the fronts. In that case, have you tried Front Aligned MCACC calibration?? which leaves fronts un-EQ'd but EQ's all the rest to "match" the non-EQ'd fronts? Or Pure Direct mode? Or manually tweaked certain freq bands to taste? Pure Direct & also turn MCACC completely OFF in the menu, is the ONLY way to compare any potential sound differences between sources & amps. If you have done this, then have did you rerun MCACC after you added the Rotel?
Or you can look at adding a 2 channel preamp with a home theater bypass. Some are unity gain, meaning no change in signal level input to output but still going thru the preamp, and some are true bypasses, with a relay/switch bypassing the preamp circuitry all together and you can still send receiver outs to amp with the preamp turned off. Parasound, most tube preamp companies like Audio Research, Cary, Conrad Johnson, Rogue Audio, etc even companies like Emotiva, have preamps with HT bypass modes implemented in some fashion.
But to think the SC-35 preamp output is somehow weak and that's why your Rotel is not performing the way YOU THINK it should is wrong-thinking. Unless it needs repaired of course. It's rated preamp output is consistent with comparable Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha receivers - if you don't believe me, check these specs on comparable models:
Denon 5308 - THX certified - analog section rated output 1.2 V & digital section rated output 2 V @ 0 dB
It's analog preamp output looks to be consistent with your SC-35 - comparing the 2 plugged into your Rotel, I doubt you would not notice any significant difference in volume levels between the 2, especially since the Rotel at that input levels would be able to crank out its full 200 wpc @ 8ohms in either case IF the soundtrack demanded that much transient power to reproduce it.
I think your disappointment lies elsewhere....wink.gif
post #3483 of 5315
post #3484 of 5315
I will believe it when I don't hear it.
post #3485 of 5315
I am trying to understand Standing Wave adjustments under the advanced MCACC...
I have read and re-read the manual and this complete thread...But am not understanding...(must be dumb?) anyway...

"default is on" but can be turned off or parameters can be adjusted...

How do I/should I adjust it? let auto do it and leave it alone?
post #3486 of 5315
It is essentially a three-band parametric equalizer that allows you to adjust the gain, center frequency, and width of each band. Unless you know what frequencies to adjust and/or have measurement capability I would leave it alone.
post #3487 of 5315
"measurement capabilities"? Is this not taken into account during the MCACC cal? or tweaked with the advanced or pro equalizer cal? If it is better left alone would it be better to just turn it to off and then run the MCACC as per the process at the first of this thread?
post #3488 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlowery78 View Post

"measurement capabilities"? Is this not taken into account during the MCACC cal? or tweaked with the advanced or pro equalizer cal? If it is better left alone would it be better to just turn it to off and then run the MCACC as per the process at the first of this thread?

Is there some reason why you feel you need to adjust the Standing Wave parameters?
post #3489 of 5315
How precisely Standing Wave parameters (the center frequency) can be adjusted?
post #3490 of 5315
The question was about manual tweaking, at least that is how I took it. I have manually tweaked mine to optimize the frequency response, using frequency and time domain measurements. I do not remember the resolution but do not think it was very fine. You can go into manual setup and check. If I did not have good measurement capability, I would not try to tweak the settings, as it can get pretty involved.
post #3491 of 5315
Sorry if this question has been answered in this forum...I just found this forum after receiving the VSX-822-K for Christmas. I didn't really want to read all 3500 post.....

I am having issues with the unit shutting off when the volume is at or above 60. Also, I keep getting the message "over heating" on the display when the volume is near those levels. Any one else having the same issues and what might the cause be??? I have a Paradigm Esprit v.3 speaker system that I have had for appr. 8 years

Thanks
post #3492 of 5315
You might get a better response if you search for "The official 822K" post.

Is the 822 in a cabinet. Do you have enough space all around the case, sides, top. Etc.
Edited by LNEWoLF - 12/28/12 at 4:16pm
post #3493 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdxorf View Post

Sorry if this question has been answered in this forum...I just found this forum after receiving the VSX-822-K for Christmas. I didn't really want to read all 3500 post.....
I am having issues with the unit shutting off when the volume is at or above 60. Also, I keep getting the message "over heating" on the display when the volume is near those levels. Any one else having the same issues and what might the cause be??? I have a Paradigm Esprit v.3 speaker system that I have had for appr. 8 years
Thanks

Why are you listening at -60? You should not be able to hear anything at that level.
post #3494 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Why are you listening at -60? You should not be able to hear anything at that level.

At "60", It is really loud....can't hardly hear the person talking that is sitting next to you
post #3495 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdxorf View Post

At "60", It is really loud....can't hardly hear the person talking that is sitting next to you

I listen at -10 to -5 and if I go to -60 it hardly puts out any audio. "0" is reference and that is what your reciever is calibrated to. 75 db at "0" so I don't know how both of you listen at -60? You all are talking about Pioneer recievers, yes and you have run full MCACC for calibration?
post #3496 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdxorf View Post

Sorry if this question has been answered in this forum...I just found this forum after receiving the VSX-822-K for Christmas. I didn't really want to read all 3500 post.....
I am having issues with the unit shutting off when the volume is at or above 60. Also, I keep getting the message "over heating" on the display when the volume is near those levels. Any one else having the same issues and what might the cause be??? I have a Paradigm Esprit v.3 speaker system that I have had for appr. 8 years
Thanks
If you are getting a message on overheating, the unit may be defective or you are pushing it to hard.
post #3497 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I listen at -10 to -5 and if I go to -60 it hardly puts out any audio.

60 is not -60, don't you think? You are talking about different scales. 60 absolute is -22 relative, but -60 relative is 22 absolute.
So both 60 and -22 are quite loud and -60 and 22 are very quiet.
post #3498 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdxorf View Post

I am having issues with the unit shutting off when the volume is at or above 60. Also, I keep getting the message "over heating" on the display when the volume is near those levels. Any one else having the same issues and what might the cause be??? I have a Paradigm Esprit v.3 speaker system that I have had for appr. 8 years
Thanks

Double-check your speaker connections very carefully, both at the speakers and especially in the back of the AVR. A very common cause of AVRs shutting off is just a single strand of speaker wire touching either another speaker wire/post, or the casing of the AVR.

As for the scale, I believe Pioneer AVRs use two differents scales, thus the confusion... I know SC-## series uses a scale where "0" is reference level and quite loud. I usually listen between -30 (music) and -10 (movies). I belive other lines of Pioneer AVRs use a scale that probably starts at 0 for no sound, and go up from there.

Hope this helps a little.

Dan.
post #3499 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

Double-check your speaker connections very carefully, both at the speakers and especially in the back of the AVR. A very common cause of AVRs shutting off is just a single strand of speaker wire touching either another speaker wire/post, or the casing of the AVR.
As for the scale, I believe Pioneer AVRs use two differents scales, thus the confusion... I know SC-## series uses a scale where "0" is reference level and quite loud. I usually listen between -30 (music) and -10 (movies). I belive other lines of Pioneer AVRs use a scale that probably starts at 0 for no sound, and go up from there.
Hope this helps a little.
Dan.

Thanks...after about an hour of trouble shooting, we found two strands of wire touching another post.....Works great, now
post #3500 of 5315
The VSX-822 Volume scale is based on a numeric value of 0-80.
"0" on his display is total silent.
His max volume level is 80.
When he was talking about it tripping at 60, that is at 75% max volume level...quite loud.
post #3501 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

The VSX-822 Volume scale is based on a numeric value of 0-80.
"0" on his display is total silent.
His max volume level is 80.
When he was talking about it tripping at 60, that is at 75% max volume level...quite loud.

My SC-67 volume scale goes +12 (real loud) to reference "0" (then -80. +12 is really loud, "0" is reference and -80 is no volume. At -60 still hardly no volume so why is my Pio diferent on volume then VSX-822? Or is it because mine is an Elite and the scale is different?
post #3502 of 5315
bsoko2, as I mentionned four posts above, Pioneer does use two different volume scales, and the SCs use the -80 (no sound) .... 0 (reference) ...+12 (Max) scale. The VSX-822, as stated by obxdiver, use a different scale: 0 (no sound) .... 80 (Max)
post #3503 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

bsoko2, as I mentioned four posts above, Pioneer does use two different volume scales, and the SCs use the -80 (no sound) .... 0 (reference) ...+12 (Max) scale. The VSX-822, as stated by obxdiver, use a different scale: 0 (no sound) .... 80 (Max)

My VSX-1122 uses the SC's volume scale, -80 (no sound) .... 0 (reference) ...+12 (Max) scale. I have never gone past -10 and that was for BR video w/ 7.1HD audio playing through my inefficient pio speakers.
Any idea why there is a difference between the VSX-822 and the VSX-1122, seeing how they are in the same line up?
post #3504 of 5315
not sure if this was mentioned but in dual sub setup for mcacc, how come the 7.2 receivers dont show up when run the setup in auto mcacc, is this a pioneer issue i have tried everything. just shows the left sub when using gui interface.
post #3505 of 5315
unless you have the former $7K flagship SC-09TX, the 2 sub outputs in all later models are actually 1 output - the 2 jacks are Y connected together behind the rear panel so the receiver sees them as 1 sub. the SC-09 was the only model that actually treated them as 2 independent sub outs.
post #3506 of 5315
will any of the newer sc-series 61 and up have this feature in gui.
post #3507 of 5315
what feature?
post #3508 of 5315
both subs when calibrating in mcacc, the only thing i noticed now that both subs are calibrated is more output from left sub than the right sub, have it set at 80 hertz, and all speakers set to small.
post #3509 of 5315
I mean where both subs show up in gui when using mcacc on screen setup, you said above that sc-09 had this feature.
post #3510 of 5315
^^
the SC-09 calibrates them as 2 separate subs. every other model Pioneer made before and since treats them as 1 sub. they are hardwired together as I said, so you can't see them as 2 subs in MCACC. No model has them as 2 subs, except the discontinued flagship SC-09.
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