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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 142

post #4231 of 5360
^^
another reason to question the validity of these "recommendations".

the LFE channel (.1) indeed is not limited to 30 hz - you are correct that it's freq band goes from < 20 Hz all the way to 120 Hz per Dolby/dts standards.

good catch.

and MCACC cannot EQ anything < 63 Hz anyway, either from the subs or the main speakers.

I've learned from reading many posts on this forum that whenever someone has "recommended" settings for people to try, be careful because they typically are unique to that person's setup, room, speakers, TV, etc. there cannot be a universal approach to setting EQ that fits everyone!! if that were true, there'd be no reason to have any form of room EQ calibration at all rolleyes.gif or any form of room analyzer/room response adjustments. you could just dial in the settings or even better, the mfg could just have 1 set of settings & be done with it tongue.gif clearly that is not the case.

I repeat, bass response is very dependent on the room dimensions and seating position relative to those dimensions. those are the MAIN factors and no one's setup can be transferred to another & be a good approach to anything, unless the rooms happen to be the same dimensions! wink.gif

while that document is very well-intentioned and I applaud toddRiffic for trying to help everyone with good tips & guides, the part that goes awry is where the bass adjustment comes in. One room may have a dip at 125 and another may have a peak. A room may get some help by a boost @ 63 & cut @ 125 but another may be a boost @ 63 AND a boost @ 125. there are NO rules of thumb! it all comes down to where one sits in relation to room nodes (peaks & dips) across the bass freq range and that is something no rule of thumb can predict. there are online excel based room node calculators you can download that can predict where nulls & peaks will occur with any combination of room dimensions but interpreting what to do about them is where the rubber meets the road wink.gif and that is beyond anyone's rules of thumb how to adjust each freq band. even adjusting the Standing Wave notch filters manually would take the resources of a seasoned calibrator or someone using room response software. that is why there's a market for outboard bass equalizers, like the parametric EQ that Velodyne sells & in some of their subs, the Anti-Mode from mini-DSP, the Behringer Feedback Destroyer, etc. Pioneer's Standing Wave filter should be left alone, unless you have the proper tools (the above, or software like Room EQ Wizard) to do it better.

good job on that, hidesertrat smile.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 6/19/13 at 10:37am
post #4232 of 5360
Sorry, i just threw that out as something to try without disclaimers. wink.gif

It sounded better to ME in MY room. I measured with REW before and after and the tips in the link measured more like the gently sloping target curve I prefer. smile.gif

Also my quad subs are eq'd with a antimode. Highly recommended.

Also, just to be clear, I am not the author. Someone posted it in the 1522 owners thread.
Edited by toddRiffic - 6/19/13 at 11:20am
post #4233 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Sorry, i just threw that out as something to try without disclaimers. wink.gif...I am not the author. Someone posted it in the 1522 owners thread.

understood smile.gif
you obviously have the tools (REW & Antimode) & know what you're doing smile.gif

while I visit the 1522 thread & remember seeing that document before, I certainly didn't remember who came up with it redface.gif. overall, it's pretty good but with new owners who lack the knowledge & tools to do it right, things like adjusting the SW filter could lead to confusion or worse results.

some of the owners in that thread have problems reading a manual let alone setting up a bass filter eek.gif

I don't even use REW but I have "threatened" for the past yr to buy Omnimic or XTZ & go down the rabbit hole tongue.gif...

but I guess I'm to the point of just enjoying it for what it is after tweaking the bass as well as most anyone can with the Velodyne parametric EQ in a Velo DD sub plus I added the discontinued SVS Audyseey-based EQ1 going on 2 yrs ago. I don't know whether me learning how to use another piece of software & interpret their waterfall graphs is going to improve much over what I've achieved with the highly acclaimed EQr's that I have wink.gif

I may not not completely know what I'm doing eek.gifwink.gif but I do have nice tools (...toys biggrin.gif) that measure the bass in my room & set the response, like you do.

quad subs...very nice!! I only have 2! (sniff-sniff biggrin.gif)
Edited by ss9001 - 6/19/13 at 12:14pm
post #4234 of 5360
Rule of thumb: For what most perceive as "midbass punch" bump the 63 Hz and 125 Hz EQ settings by 3-6 dB in the mains.

Edit: Steve, get the toys, err, "tools"... smile.gif

Disclaimer: Ownership of tools does not automatically imply proficiency, or even working knowledge of them. Any tool. Electronic or not. Don't ask me how I know this... biggrin.gif
post #4235 of 5360
This bottom of this chart which is normally used for audio mixing helps to show the frequency ranges where some of the terms we use occur. You'll notice ranges for "Punch" (+/- 125HZ), "Thump" (+/- 30HZ) and some others which may help you. If you are trying to hear more/less of a certain instrument sound you can use the top part of the chart to determine which frequencies can be used boosted/cut to tailor the sound to what you want.


If you use the link then the chart is interactive and gives you some additional information for instruments and frequency spectrum ranges.
Enjoy!
post #4236 of 5360
+1. Very cool!
post #4237 of 5360
+2
seen similar charts but not this interactive one. thanks!
post #4238 of 5360
Here is a dumb question..; As there are different variants of Audyssey, eg-MultiEQ, MultiEQ XT, MultiEQ XT32...Are there different variants of MCACC that are used in lower end Pioneer receivers vs the higher end ones, or different from the Pioneer and Elite products?confused.gif
post #4239 of 5360
^^
not dumb at all

and yes. the lower cost AVR's have a trimmed down version. for all the features look for Advanced MCACC in the product sheet. I think for the budget models, data copy & standing wave filter are removed. and maybe even the EQ'r & phase control but don't quote on me on those 2..check the manuals smile.gif
post #4240 of 5360
Bumping the standing wave filter for the sub up by 3db made a world of a difference in my room for bass response. It was night and day. I don't know how i've had the SC37 for a year and a half without trying that. So some peoples recommend settings do actually help. Can't hurt to try.
post #4241 of 5360
Just bumped trim up 3 db, much more punch at low end...
post #4242 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Bumping the standing wave filter for the sub up by 3db made a world of a difference in my room for bass response. It was night and day. I don't know how i've had the SC37 for a year and a half without trying that. So some peoples recommend settings do actually help. Can't hurt to try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCarrera4 View Post

Just bumped trim up 3 db, much more punch at low end...

If you have dual subs, would you still up the trim 3db's, or would having 2 instead of one change that?
post #4243 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post


If you have dual subs, would you still up the trim 3db's, or would having 2 instead of one change that?

The 3db bump woks wonders for my dual sub setup.
post #4244 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by bguzman View Post

The 3db bump woks wonders for my dual sub setup.

Awesome, thanks for the response. Also, is upping the SW trim the only tweak you did after running calibration? For example, did you adjust the volume MCACC came up with?
post #4245 of 5360
I believe I've got my sub running 3db's hot as well. That's the only changes I made to MCACC besides the x-curve
post #4246 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by simple man View Post

I believe I've got my sub running 3db's hot as well. That's the only changes I made to MCACC besides the x-curve

Sorry I'm new to MCACC, but what's the x-curve & what kind of changes did you make. I know it's different per room/system, but just curious.
post #4247 of 5360
The x-curve attenuates the high frequencies by (I think) up to 3dB. In smaller rooms this can be a benefit.
post #4248 of 5360
ref the "Trim" in manual MCACC - should you try and get the pink noise to be at same level for all channels ?
post #4249 of 5360
I think that is the goal at the MLP.
post #4250 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

Sorry I'm new to MCACC, but what's the x-curve & what kind of changes did you make. I know it's different per room/system, but just curious.

Its for toning down the high frequencies, I've got it set -1db. I have a small room for the size of my speakers and they seem a little to bright for me.
post #4251 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCarrera4 View Post

Just bumped trim up 3 db, much more punch at low end...

Just to make sure; i'm talking about the standing wave trim for the sub. Not the trim for the channel levels.

I recommend everyone try it. The improvement is massive. I might try 1db higher.
post #4252 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Just to make sure; i'm talking about the standing wave trim for the sub. Not the trim for the channel levels.

I recommend everyone try it. The improvement is massive. I might try 1db higher.

Just curious, for those that posted about upping SW trim 3db's...what was the initial volume level MCACC came up w/for you & what did u adjust it to after?
Edited by goblue1 - 6/22/13 at 5:53pm
post #4253 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

Just curious, for those that posted about upping SW trim 3db's...what was the initial volume level MCACC came up w/for you & what did u adjust it to after?

0db. There was one time when MCACC set the standing wave sub trim to +1db, but it's mostly 0db. So right now i have it at +3db.
Edited by saprano - 6/22/13 at 7:17pm
post #4254 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

0db. There was one time when MCACC set it to +1db, but it's mostly 0db. So right now i have it at +3db.

So your SW "channel level" is +3, and your SW trim is +3, correct? Are the different settings?
post #4255 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

So your SW "channel level" is +3, and your SW trim is +3, correct? Are the different settings?

My channel level for the sub is 0db set by MCACC calibration. The standing wave sub level i set to +3db.
post #4256 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

My channel level for the sub is 0db set by MCACC calibration. The standing wave sub level i set to +3db.

Got it, I'll try that. Not sure what model avr you have (sc1222 for me), but do you turn on any other additional settings like Sound Retriever?
post #4257 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

Just curious, for those that posted about upping SW trim 3db's...what was the initial volume level MCACC came up w/for you & what did u adjust it to after?
I believe mine was +1.5 so I took it to +4.5, all I can say is night and day, this with a 3 sub setup.
post #4258 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

Got it, I'll try that. Not sure what model avr you have (sc1222 for me), but do you turn on any other additional settings like Sound Retriever?

I have a SC37

I use 32 bit processing. Don't hear much of a difference though. Sound Retriever i use with lossy programming. Which i hardly ever watch. But when i do it helps alot. It's only for lossy audio but i found that if i change my PS3 to LPCM with BD's i can get the option to turn it on. There is a difference but i don't think it's needed for lossless.

Dave, you're talking about the level in the standing wave menu correct? Just making sure people are not mixing it up.
post #4259 of 5360
I just upped my sub to +3. It was set to -1.5 (which seems a bit low to me). Listening now, seems to accentuate separation a bit. Will take a few discs (and my wife leaving the house) to really see if it's making a big difference. I know it didn't make it worse. smile.gif
post #4260 of 5360
Not talking the sub channel level. I don't know why people are getting confused.

The 3db bump i'm talking about is from the standing wave menu.
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