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"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 158

post #4711 of 5340
I also have a non-symmetrical room and see behaviour as described by KC. I fully agree with that assessment.

For those interested I've attached my SC-75 Symmetry and All Channel results.

SymmvsAllCh.jpg 177k .jpg file
post #4712 of 5340
A bit off topic but since MCACC lacks any bass EQ I thought I'd post here that I have an Audyssey based sub eq for sale.
post #4713 of 5340
Was wondering if I could your guy opinions on these graphs. I want to see if I'm grasping this correctly.

These were done with no EQ..... I've taken calibrations with settings from 0-20 thru 50-70 and have them stored in presets 1-6.

Based on these graphs, what ms setting would you think would work best.




post #4714 of 5340
I just got the 1223-k from Amazon sale. Like the sound quite a bit. Problem....I can't get the thing to turn on my subwoofer in FM mode, or in TV mode, or in Spotify mode.

Whazzupwitdat? -Hurricane Helms

Seriously though, that is frustrating the hell out of me, I have read through this thread, and will keep doing so, but I have not found a successful solution yet.

Any help would be great!

Thanks!
post #4715 of 5340
^^ did you hook it up. ? Haha couldnt resist.

Are you in pure direct mode? If so get out. Is the sub trim up?

Hooked up to right input? Gain on sub up?
post #4716 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

^^ did you hook it up. ? Haha couldnt resist.

Are you in pure direct mode? If so get out. Is the sub trim up?

Hooked up to right input? Gain on sub up?

Yeah, so I did double check, and I would have been honest if it was a silly thing like that. smile.gif

Blu ray trips it no problem, NOTHING else will.

The trim in Wave menu, right? I read that I think, I pumped that thing up to +10.

PLII Music mode, extended stereo, Rock/Pop.

Playing with FM now, trying to get that going, RED light on the sub.
post #4717 of 5340
Do this.....

Go into settings, its 4 b I think, and look for channel levels. Select and go to sub trim. Here you can change the sub trim and verify it is working.

Then go back to 4 a I think, make sure speakers are set to small and for now put an 80 hz xover on.

Put your surround mode in auto surround or stereo if listening to radio or pandora.

Try swapping rca cords?
post #4718 of 5340
I am going to have the Pioneer Elite VSX-70 for my HT soon. The receiver will be in a different room than the speakers. My question - how do I set up the mic and run MCACC if the mic cord won't reach my HT room? Sorry for the newbie question.
post #4719 of 5340
Get an extension cable with 1/8" (3.5mm) female miniplug connector on one end and a male 1/8" miniplug on the other. Radio Shack or online from a source like Monoprice. I looked at my mic and the plug tip looks mono. Not sure if a stereo plug would work but I'd stick with mono to be sure. I know Radio Shack sells 6' mono plugged patch or extension cables. but you may need longer. how long you can go without too much signal loss, I don't know, but I would think if it's only 10-20' more, you'd be fine. if you have to string it 100' across the whole house, that may be an issue but hey, try it anyway wink.gif the cable is cheap.
post #4720 of 5340
If mcacc doesnt eq subs then what does it eq 63hz for when you select thx speaker system? Which makes the crossover 80hz. Thats how i set up my 1222k. Is that how i should have done it? Ascend acoustics speakers
post #4721 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

If mcacc doesnt eq subs then what does it eq 63hz for when you select thx speaker system? Which makes the crossover 80hz. Thats how i set up my 1222k. Is that how i should have done it? Ascend acoustics speakers

Isn't the 63Hz slider disabled when you go into MCACC Pro EQ?
post #4722 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Was wondering if I could your guy opinions on these graphs. I want to see if I'm grasping this correctly.

These were done with no EQ..... I've taken calibrations with settings from 0-20 thru 50-70 and have them stored in presets 1-6.

Based on these graphs, what ms setting would you think would work best.





No opinions? Hmm... Let me attempt to tackle this and maybe some in the know can give their feedback.

Here are two more pictures. In the MCACC manual none of the graphs look like mine.

Mcacc example -



More graphs from my reverb measurements.




You can see to a point mine look like the example in MCACC manual. There are some lower frequencies that take longer to come up to volume. However, unlike the MCACC graph, my channels and frequencies do not continue to rise. They all level off nice and flat.

My thinking is choose a time period just after the lines level off and go flat. In my case I could almost get away with a 10-30 ms capture time, and I might be able to. There's just a couple lines on the graph that go past 10ms though, so that makes me think I'd be better going with a 20-40 capture time.

Another thought I've had on choosing a capture time is to go with the EQ curve that has the least variance in adjustments. Would that make sense?


I can't really tell the difference in sound between any of the six settings I've saved, 0-20ms - 50-70ms with the exception being 0-20ms.

I can hear a bit more in the lower frequency range with this setting. But it's minor. It's obviously because MCACC boosted the lower frequencies because they had not yet had time to reach full volume at time of capture.... so I'm thinking MCACC is boosting to those lower frequencies to compensate.

****Updated MCACC graph pictures that represent BEFORE EQ rerver measures.
The one above were mistakenly posted.



Edited by pdxrealtor - 12/19/13 at 1:28pm
post #4723 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Isn't the 63Hz slider disabled when you go into MCACC Pro EQ?

63 hz slider is available & EQ done with speakers set to large. for speakers set to small, it's not available and not measured. since I personally have only used 80 hz as a crossover in all my models, I don't know for sure what impact setting it to say 150 would have on the measurement. but since the next band is 125 hz, I suspect it will still start with that but someone who actually uses the higher crossover would have to chime in to confirm.
post #4724 of 5340
+1.

Same for me. 63 Hz is only enabled for Large speakers. Sub EQ comments generally refer to comparisons with much more extensive EQ than a single 63 Hz slider, something more comparable to Audyssey or Antimode units offer much greater flexibility and many more bands. Most rooms have their first mode or two below 63 Hz, and for sub correction you typically want narrow-band control.

All IMO.
post #4725 of 5340
@pdxrealtor: I suspect not all that many of us have played deeply with that, and in my case my older model does not have such extensive displays. It is also somewhat a personal decision depending on how you like the reverberant field in your room. If you hear no significant difference, I would suggest picking one and leaving it for a while. In a week or three, after you are used to it, switch to another and see if you notice a difference. If not, no worries, there are better things to do in life than piddle with MCACC endlessly! Ignore the temptation... smile.gif
post #4726 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

...there are better things to do in life than piddle with MCACC endlessly! Ignore the temptation... smile.gif

+1

it's nice to be able to tweak but at some point you realize that the entertainment is the goal, not the technology wink.gif

I have always done the reverb EQ Pro automatically and see no reason to do differently even with dipolar planar speakers. the time slot it uses seems to match what the curves are suggesting is appropriate...the point where the level starts leveling off and not continuing to rise.

just looking at the graphs, seems like 0-20 or 20-40 both look acceptable, probably I'd go with 20-40 but it'd be interesting to see what auto would do and I'd bet it uses either one of those 2.

IM own Exp, where manual tweaking pays dividends is sub-bass EQ, either with a parametric EQ'r like the Velodyne SMS-1 (or one of their DD subs), or spending the time to properly use a DSP solution, like the Antimode, discontinued SVS/Audyssey units or something like a MiniDSP, Behringer Feedback Destroyer & REW software. You can literally spend hours but get real improvements.

and even though current MCACC doesn't EQ subs, we do have its Standing Wave Filter, which does 3 notches in Auto or one can spend hrs with measurements and manual adjusting it and spending hrs rears its ugly head again biggrin.gif it can be fun - to a point - but definitely educational & informative. but there is a point of diminishing returns; I know I reached that point several yrs ago so now I just enjoy it wink.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 12/19/13 at 10:26am
post #4727 of 5340
I spent many hours over many days with thousands of dollars worth of gear to manually tweak MCACC when I first got my SC-27. I have changed things and had to re-run MCACC several times since and have somehow lost the urge to tweak, still sounds OK to me. smile.gif
post #4728 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

@pdxrealtor: I suspect not all that many of us have played deeply with that, and in my case my older model does not have such extensive displays. It is also somewhat a personal decision depending on how you like the reverberant field in your room. If you hear no significant difference, I would suggest picking one and leaving it for a while. In a week or three, after you are used to it, switch to another and see if you notice a difference. If not, no worries, there are better things to do in life than piddle with MCACC endlessly! Ignore the temptation... smile.gif

Well for me this is the tail end of an ~7 month dedicated room build so I feel I at least owe it to myself and the dollars spent to dial in the mains/surrounds as optimally as possible. Hope you can appreciate that.



Quote:
I have always done the reverb EQ Pro automatically and see no reason to do differently even with dipolar planar speakers. the time slot it uses seems to match what the curves are suggesting is appropriate...the point where the level starts leveling off and not continuing to rise.

Can you tell me where you go to have the EQ pro automatically select the capture time? I know in auto, or is it full auto, that it will choose the best time between 80-160, but I wasn't aware you could do an auto cal and have the EQ select an optimal capture time in the 0-80 ms range.
Quote:
just looking at the graphs, seems like 0-20 or 20-40 both look acceptable, probably I'd go with 20-40 but it'd be interesting to see what auto would do and I'd bet it uses either one of those 2.

Apologies- those are the after graphs using the EQ of the 30-50 ms measure. I've added the before graphs to my post (measured with no EQ as instructed), but my same questions apply to that graph as they don't seem to represent any of the example graphs in the MCACC manual. A couple almost replicated the graph that suggests the 60-80 ms capture time
Quote:
IM own Exp, where manual tweaking pays dividends is sub-bass EQ, either with a parametric EQ'r like the Velodyne SMS-1 (or one of their DD subs), or spending the time to properly use a DSP solution, like the Antimode, discontinued SVS/Audyssey units or something like a MiniDSP, Behringer Feedback Destroyer & REW software. You can literally spend hours but get real improvements.

Ask me where 3 of the 7 months it's taken me to get to this point have gone. I will answer : dialing in subs and sub EQ. I've tried the mini-dsp, RANE PE 17, and Audyssey SVS EQ-1. Had no choice but to settle for the mini-dsp, which has actually despite its input limitations done a fine job of EQing my six 18" subs. Though a lot can be contributed to placement.

Quote:
and even though current MCACC doesn't EQ subs, we do have its Standing Wave Filter, which does 3 notches in Auto or one can spend hrs with measurements and manual adjusting it and spending hrs rears its ugly head again biggrin.gif it can be fun - to a point - but definitely educational & informative. but there is a point of diminishing returns; I know I reached that point several yrs ago so now I just enjoy it wink.gif

Yes... again.... once I get this dialed in I too will just enjoy it and try to help others with what I've learned. After I get this ms capture choice selection down to where I can clear a couple memory spots I will finish things off with an auto three point standing wave and EQ cal. If I'm not happy I'll go manual mode. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I spent many hours over many days with thousands of dollars worth of gear to manually tweak MCACC when I first got my SC-27. I have changed things and had to re-run MCACC several times since and have somehow lost the urge to tweak, still sounds OK to me. smile.gif

I get it. I honestly can't wait to be done with this last part of the room setup. What is the +/- one should expect to accomplish out the front mains using MCACC? I'm +/- 10 db in the lower frequencies and that just seems high to me.



If you wouldn't mind take a look at the before graphs I updated in my post above and let me know what you think.

Why Pioneer has to make this so involved is frustrating in one hand, and complete bliss in the other.

I would hate to be stuck with an Audyssey system that did not give desired results.
Edited by pdxrealtor - 12/19/13 at 1:08pm
post #4729 of 5340
Quote:
SS901 I have always done the reverb EQ Pro automatically and see no reason to do differently even with dipolar planar speakers. the time slot it uses seems to match what the curves are suggesting is appropriate...the point where the level starts leveling off and not continuing to rise.

just looking at the graphs, seems like 0-20 or 20-40 both look acceptable, probably I'd go with 20-40 but it'd be interesting to see what auto would do and I'd bet it uses either one of those 2.
Can you tell me where you go to have the EQ pro automatically select the capture time? I know in auto, or is it full auto, that it will choose the best time between 80-160, but I wasn't aware you could do an auto cal and have the EQ select an optimal capture time in the 0-80 ms range.

*Edit* From the MCACC manual-

In all of these cases, when the “Full Auto MCACC” operation is performed, the calibration time position is
selected automatically in consideration of the room’s characteristics so that the optimum sound field can be
achieved. (See page 10 of the receiver’s Operating Instructions.)
When measurements are made with the “Auto MCACC”, automatic calibration taking the reverberations into
consideration is only performed when “ALL”, “Keep SP System” or “EQ Pro. & S-Wave” is selected.

^^^
With that said..... is there a way to go in and see what setting the system chose for you? I'm not near my room right now.
post #4730 of 5340
Hi guys I started this whole home theater thing six months ago with a Craigslist $50 Yamaha HTR5730, went to a Denom AVR-2805 Infinity Reference 2000.6 setup I paid $200 for and sold for $560 and now have a Pioneer 1020 with Mirage Omni 260 mains, a. Mirage OS3-FS tower for a center (I have the matching CC1 center but am waiting for my new midrange to come in) Polk audio tsi100 side surrounds and Cambridge Soundworks S300 bipolar/dipolar rear surrounds. I have ordered the matching Omni 50 and 60 rear and side surrounds from Amazon but currently I'm in for $300 the way my system is now with a 10 inch 200 watt Pinnacle sub and even with the mismatched speakers I love the way my system sounds. From uncompressed 7.1 from. Xbox One to DTS MSTR HD 7.1in 3D blu rays it really sounds fantastic. I've run MCACC many times using all three modes and than did the pro eq and have found the 30-50ms is the best for my room with all chan adj, my room is an acoustic nightmare but I'm a broke college kid but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy HT. I've got my speakers set as small with a 100hz crossover. I've spent days tinkering with my eq and different settings to get the best sound out if my system. All levels are stable at 75db, mcacc set them around 70 so I raised that. There was a. Few posts which mentioned bringing down the midrange to decrease brightness and harshness and with a little trial and error it worked perfect for me. I'm by all definition a noob but before you other newbies go asking questions that have been answered 100times already, put the work in, read the forums, get an Spl meter, there isn't a guy out there who is magically going to post the optimal settings you need for your specific speakers, to match your specific sound stage. Take it firm a guy who knows, the answers most of you need are right here in this forum,
post #4731 of 5340
I apologize for my grammatical errors typing on an ipad is awful.
post #4732 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda House View Post

..before you other newbies go asking questions that have been answered 100times already, put the work in, read the forums, get an Spl meter, there isn't a guy out there who is magically going to post the optimal settings you need for your specific speakers, to match your specific sound stage. Take it firm a guy who knows, the answers most of you need are right here in this forum,

Panda, you say you're a "noob"...I'd say far from it smile.gif you speak wise words!

and that's why I for one never get involved in suggesting specific calibration settings, EQ, or even the "best" surround modes. and beware the poster who recommend his own audio or video processor settings for people to try out. it's not possible.
post #4733 of 5340
Thanks man
post #4734 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

A bit off topic but since MCACC lacks any bass EQ I thought I'd post here that I have an Audyssey based sub eq for sale.

How much?
post #4735 of 5340
^^ pm sent Anyone else please pm me.
post #4736 of 5340

I connected my VSX-42 to my PC with HDMI. For some reason Audio Calibration EQ doesn't fully work with PC. It works when I watch movies, i.e. when the PC sends DTS/DD over HDMI.

 

However, when the PC sends multichannel PCM (for example when playing games) to the AVR, the latter switches Audio Calibration EQ off. When I try to manually turn it on, the AVR shows "CANT SEL".

 

How can I make it work?

post #4737 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patulus View Post
 

I connected my VSX-42 to my PC with HDMI. For some reason Audio Calibration EQ doesn't fully work with PC. It works when I watch movies, i.e. when the PC sends DTS/DD over HDMI.

 

However, when the PC sends multichannel PCM (for example when playing games) to the AVR, the latter switches Audio Calibration EQ off. When I try to manually turn it on, the AVR shows "CANT SEL".

 

How can I make it work?


Never mind. I found the problem: it doesn't support Audio Calibration EQ when using 192 kHz.

post #4738 of 5340

I am trying hard to find an answer to the Speaker B MCACC calibration issue. I do use different speakers for audio only, in stereo mode, on my VSX 53 amp. The surround system is a Bose kit (good enough for movies), while the music relies on a pair of higher end LSIM speakers from Polk. 

 

I can not do a calibration on the B speakers. Is there a way to do it? Is there a strong case doing it for plain (as direct as possible) stereo playback? It does sound great "as is", but I'd like to make sure I get the most out the calibration process.

 

The only thing I could think of would be to disconnect the Bose kit, plug the stereo speaker in the A speakers, rerun the calibration, saving it as another calibration in Memory 2, then re-plugging the Bose kit and the LSIM in the B speakers, applying the original calibration to the Bose and the new one to the B set.

 

Does that make sense? Any shorter path to the same results?

post #4739 of 5340
I don't think any AVR performs calibration on secondary speaker zones.
post #4740 of 5340
Pioneer says (I called them) that B speakers do not get calibrated by MCACC- I was curious about my 1522, as I listen to 2-channel stereo on the B's using my old Kef speakers from the 80's. No calibration, so I just listen to music "flat," using Source Direct. I get a good clean sound, so it seems to not be a major issue. I run analog outs (RCA's) from my Oppo 103 to the Pioneer ins, as well as using HDMI. Both sound good (to me).
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