"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 18

The question that I have about MCACC is: how can you tell what speaker mode (Front Align, All Channel Adjust, or Symetry) you are in? I find no place in the MCACC menu that will tell you this.

Bill

This was addressed earlier in the thread, when I asked a similar question.
The explanation from Legairre in post #458



Also I'd note that by Dolby Digital standard, LFE content *may* extend up to 150Hz. Therefore the Standing Wave 'SUB' eq operating well above 80 Hz is not so surprising.

(IIRC I have seen my SUB Standing Wave filter apply itself in the 70-80 Hz range in my setup, but I'd have to check to see if that's still the case, as I'm fairly often changing things around and re-doing MCACC)

Yeah... Legairre's post was the one I was alluding to, although I forgot the "Plus" setting part (Freudian, I'm sure ).

I believe the Dolby LFE standard calls for a digital brick-wall cutoff at 120Hz. However, THX examined a lot of soundtracks and found that there was very little above 80Hz in actual practice, validating their standard's choice of an 80Hz crossover (which, of course, is not a brick wall).

In any case, the possibility of a higher crossover and/or Plus setting does explain why MCACC is making corrections in the sub channel at such a high frequencies. It's just my mindset that takes them completely out of the picture, as I'd never consider either.

Thats better than nothing i guess. im going to get a sub with an onboard eq, or just get my own.

There isn't anywhere in MCACC that I know of that will display what mode you ran. If you run the Advanced MCACC application it does display the mode on the MCACC Param tab under Acoustic Cal EQ. It diesplay the speaker mode for each memory(M1 through M6).

Yes, we went over that already, too, earlier in the thread (my bad for misremembering the upper Dolby limit)

One solution is to label the MCACC modes, which will a then llow you to easily check which one is active on the AVR's screen.

I know. All these threads get repetitive, as the same issues keep coming up.

In reading about YPAO, Yamaha's calibration and equalization system, I just noticed that setting the sound pressure level for each speaker comes after equalization (YPAO steps). Which makes sense. But MCACC does these in the other order, doesn't it? If you do MCACC several times, does setting sound pressure level use the equalization arrived at from the previous run through?

MCACC makes a trim adjustment as part of its EQ, which balances the output again.

I originally posted this on the official 01-03 thread before I realized that there was a dedicated MCACC thread for my questions so please forgive me for cross posting this query.

Has anyone that owns an 01/03 done a professional audio calibration or is the auto MCACC setup sufficient? I am planning on having my Kuro 111FD calibrated for ISF day/night modes and some of the calibrators offer a basic audio calibration with an SPL meter. Is this something worth even pursuing or will it be overkill and a waste of money? I have a Polk 5.1 speaker setup with my VSX-01THX.

This is my setup:
Pioneer Elite VSX-01THX
Front speakers - Polk RTiA7
Rear speakers - Polk RTiA1
Subwoofer - Polk PSW125
Center speaker - Polk CSiA4

Right now my speakers are set to "Large" and the SW to "Plus" after running the auto MCACC setup. Although they sound ok, I believe that there is room for improvement, so will a basic audio calibration with an SPL meter really make a significant difference?

I'm guessing a calibrated system by SPL meter won't sound any better then. I did answer you in the other thread stating that MCACC is pretty accurate (even when I read a magazine that also says MCACC is as well). So going out and getting it professionally done would be overkill.

I could guess and say you want more bass from your settings and that is what you feel is lacking. I would say on this that I doubt a professionally calibrated system will give you much more.

Honestly if you want accuracy then you might have to deal with less. If you go by what you want to hear, then just go into the settings and move up the dB's on the frequencies you feel are lacking. Changing some of your speakers to small would help in that area as well. Maybe give yourself the best of both worlds... have some MCACC settings, and then have an EQ for how you like things. That way you can always flip through them.

I'll be honest, I have an EQ setting where I bumped up the highs and lows a few dB's, and when I'm in that mood I just use that. Makes me happy when I have a flat source.

Should I only change the L/R/C speakers to small or change them all?

It depends on the calibrator. Based on my experience checking with my own SPL meter, that alone will make very little difference. MCACC is very accurate.

However, some calibrators do more than just verify settings with an SPL meter, and they may be worth the expense. They sometimes turn up things like out of phase wiring (sometimes by the factory), optimize settings by (a well trained) ear, suggest alternative speaker placements, etc., all of which have caused some users to praise the results lavishly.

If you are dissatisfied with your current sound after using MCACC, the right calibrator may well be a worthwhile investment. Be sure to check references, though.

And I agree with boomster. Most people will get the best (most accurate) results by setting all their speakers to small and letting the subwoofer handle all of the bass. This is what THX and most pros recommend.

One calibrator who has an excellent reputation on AVS that I have been in contact with said he would "include your audio calibration. (ensuring your audio processor is setup correctly then using an SPL meter to balance out your speakers)" along with my TV's calibration. Should I assume by his wording that he will look at all of the settings that the auto MCACC performed and then make any adjustments he felt necessary?

however, there is room for disagreement-and the area is mid bass. HSU subwoofers makes a case of this in marketing their MBM unit (Mid Bass Management-I think?).
I also run my mains as large with the subwoofer setting to +1. The reason being enhancement of the midbass response. With all speakers set to small, I definitely miss something in the mid bass response.

If you change the L/R mains to small the others will automatically change to small.

If it works for you, by all means stick with it. But Hsu's MBM is designed to work with LFE, and setting your mains to Large will not divert any LFE to them as long as a subwoofer is connected. It simply keeps the lows that were encoded in the main channel where they started instead of diverting them to the sub. In some cases, this results in the loss of some low frequency output, although this varies from source to source in a way that is largely unpredictable to the end user. Using the "Plus" setting sends the same main channel lows to both the mains and sub (with the same unpredictable results), but it still does not affect LFE.

BTW, I have my DefTech STS's set to large, too, as they are flat into the mid-twenties (with an internal amplifier for the bass module), but that type of speaker is an exception. Most people are better off using the standard recommendation, which is to set all speakers to small, and let the sub handle all the bass.

I'd ask him. Assumptions are never safe.

If you check htwaits tread (I'm guessing you already have), you'll see some reviews that specifically discuss the audio aspect of the member's calibration.

Virtually all of the reports that say audio were done seem to be by UMR who isn't available in my area until August.

I have emailed the gentleman and asked for clarification.

I received my reply.

Ensuring your processor is correctly set up:
All speakers on correct size
Correct cross over
Correct timing and phase
SPL balanced


Is there anything else I should ask?

His answer seems to be clear enough. If you have a specific concern, you might want to address it, but it looks like he'll cover the basics.

I think that all of my audio needs will definitely be covered & I know he is top notch for video calibrations so I booked an appointment with him.

I upgraded from a Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi to the SC-05. Today was my first day with it and ran the MCACC auto calibration.

My subwoofer is an ACI Titan II. It has a "theater mode" direct input for a single subwoofer cable to the receiver. I used this method for years on the 55TXi.

Right after starting the MCACC calibration, it threw up an error and said my subwoofer was too loud and I should turn down the input before continuing. Well, there is no input to turn down! I bypassed the error and let it continue.

Well, the SC-05 MCACC is a lot more advanced compared to my older 55TXi, but it does do something wrong -- my sub is too loud now. MCACC calculated a -10dB setting for the sub but I can only assume it wanted to go lower. It's still too bass heavy and I cannot manually set it lower than -10dB.

Was there a fundamental change between the subwoofer-out on my 55TXi and this SC-05? Is related to that 10dB "boost" I've read about? Since I can't change anything (and didn't) on my sub, I hope I can fix this on the Pioneer.

Help?

You have not "gain" or "volume" knob on your subwoofer

I do, but it's bypassed since I'm using the sub equivalent of a line-level input....at least that is what I assume it is.

Check the PDF I linked above.

I don't see where in the document it says it's bypassed. (edit - Huh. Now I do.)

Just to be sure - try turning the "input level" or volume knob on the amp all the way down, and play something, and see if you can hear anything...

I've never heard of a actively amplified subwoofer that would internally bypass it's own amplification gain/volume before....

Valnar -- You should be using the SC-05 line level "sub-out" (the RCA cable connection) to the line input to your sub. This will not bypass the sub's volume control (which normally should be set to about 30% to 40% of it's maximum value). Using the speaker input, to the sub, is the "wrong" thing to do.

See page 5 of your sub's manual (which you linked to). You can use either the "Left" or "Right" input, or get a RCA "Y" adapter and connect to both the R & L line inputs.

I am using that. I was using it for years. It goes to the single RCA theater mode input.

I'll try the left input next where the volume control does work. The point I wanted to make was something is different in this receiver compared to my old one.

As I mentioned on the other thread where you posted this issue, receivers do vary in their output levels, although I'm surprised it's that much from the same brand. There was a small difference between my 1015 and my 01, but it was so easily corrected by the subwoofer's controls that I didn't give it much thought. Your sub must be unique in bypassing its gain control for the LFE (Theater) input. I can't even begin to guess why they would have done that.

One workaround might be to insert an attenuator, although, since you seem to have alternative connections that wii accomplish the goal, using them is probably a simpler route.