"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 23

Originally Posted by esswun

...From what I understand, setting the speakers as small causes the LFE to go to the sub, for small speakers don't really put out real bass, neccessitating the need for a sub, do I have this right? ...

Originally Posted by Macfan424

I balance and integrate my subs with each other before running MCACC, at which point they are all on.

Originally Posted by TCARCIO

I have been doing the same but does it confuse the Avr as far as distance to set? The subs are all spread out over the whole room.

Originally Posted by -Kevin-

I apologize if this has been answered already:

Are there any differences between the MCACC on the vsx-03txh and the SC-05?
And if so, what are they? Thanks!

Originally Posted by Macfan424

I've never done a thorough analysis, but the most obvious difference is that the 05 incorporates full bandwidth phase control in addition to standard phase control, which is limited to lows. It's GUI also seems to be somewhat more helpful in understanding the results and making manual adjustments, although I don't know that it affects ultimate functionality.

Originally Posted by Thebarnman

On Jeff's first visit Sept 2008, he did a full calibration on my 60 Pioneer Pro-151FD Kuro and an audio calibration. At that time, he pointed out a problem I was having with the lower audio frequencies and how it could be corrected with a second subwoofer and/or additional audio equipment. Even though I still don't have a 2nd subwoofer, I did however buy a new receiver...the Pioneer SC-07. Being aware of the adjustability of my new receiver, I couldn't wait to see what adjustments Jeff would do with my new equipment during his 2nd visit.

With my highly anticipated late December 2008 purchased of the Pioneer SC-07, I knew I would be getting closer to the audio performance I desired. Even so, reaching maximum audio performance didn't come without a hitch. I first had to deal with getting the correct wiring from REL to get a proper ground for my new class "D" receiver.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post16599598

That took about two months. After that, I let the Pioneer SC-07 set up it's own audio calibration via it's MCACC program and the supplied microphone. I felt that the audio sounded "better" and the sound stage was much more "solid", however it sounded overall too bright particularly when compared to my older pre-amp amplifier combination.

Now I was ready for Jeff's arrival. When I checked his schedule, I saw he was already booked for my area. However, I did notice he was taking requests in case of cancellations so I sent him an email. It turned out he was able to fit me into his schedule so I was set.

On May 27th, 2009 9am sharp, Jeff came by for a 2nd visit to do a "simple" audio calibration...at least that was his first impression. What ended up being an issue (and taking up more time) had almost everything to do with how my REL sub bass system was hooked up. To correct most of the problems I was having, Jeff suggested an RCA to XLR (three pin) converter so I could take advantage of the SC-07s crossover (I hope Im saying that right!) And to make sure we were getting the correct connection/equipment, we called around and both ended up traveling to a local music store. I bought the converter and back to my place we went. Overall, his visit was about five hours (about two or three more hours than he anticipated).

When the work was done, I was thrown back into amazement. I've never heard my audio system sound as good as it does today. With a term I like to use, it simply sounds like showroom quality! And what's amazing, is how great it sounded in a room (my room) that is about as bad of a listening environment as it can get. Jeff would never tell me (his client) how much my listening environment sucks, however I took his well meaning descriptive words while he was listening to the differences of the much improved audio and could tell he was surprised how good it sounded in such a bad acoustical environment. We looked at each other at the same time and just started laughing! All I knew, is that the audio was smooth, (something I'm not used to hearing) balanced, detailed, open, realistic, much more depth in the low end and not colored in anyway. On top of that, I was really impressed on how Jeff was able to improve the performance of my older model REL Stadium II. Older yes, however still a fine product and it simply just needed a little help.

If you checked out the link in this story, I want you to know, that the digital cable from Sumiko is still hooked up (for proper grounding) along with the RCA to XLR converter (for the low level hookup).

The bass is now much more detailed, smooth, much more even and the bass produces the same audio levels throughout the lower audio range (there was a lot missing before he worked on it) and I hear much more liveliness in the music.

Jeff put a lot of work into my system. Like I had mentioned when I contacted him, he was simply figuring on a simple calibration, something that would normally maybe only take a couple hours. He ended up being here for five hours because of the audio problems he encountered. Jeff wanted to make sure that all the audio equipment could be brought out to perform at their maximum ability.

The improvement in audio quality was worth much more than I paid. Even though the price ended up being a little bit more than was quoted, it was more than well worth it. There were problems along the way and a lot of time spent sorting them out. HOWEVER, the improvement was as if I had just spent tens of thousands of dollars on new audio equipment. It sounds like I have new speakers, a new subwoofer and I can tell for the first time that the purchase of my new Pioneer SC-07 was well worth the money.

I'll definitely be having Jeff over again when I purchase a new subwoofer and/or center channel speaker. He even said by that time my Pioneer Pro-151FD would be ready for a quick calibration update. And that he would (at no additional cost) go ahead and do that for me. Since he had already calibrated my Kuro and is familiar with this Pioneer product, he assured me that the differences would be small and would not take long at all. It would be interesting to see if my 60 Kuro would need any adjusting at all since I rarely have time to sit and watch TV anymore.

In any case, for those sitting on the sidelines wondering if a TV and or Audio calibration is worth the money or not, I cannot say in enough words how much more value you will get from your equipment when it's set up properly. My own abilities with this hobby can get me further than mosthowever no matter how much I keep up, I simply don't have the background, education and knowledge that Jeff has. His visits to my home has given me lots of confidence in knowing when I listening to music and/or watch a movie, either by myself or with friends, the performance will be better than most have experiencedalmost anywhere!

http://www.accucalhd.com

Originally Posted by spongebob

Did Jeff use the Pioneer's MCCAC settings or does he use his own equip to do the same EQ?

bob

Originally Posted by lexicon1

The MCACC system is in just about all new Pioneer units, yet setup and tweaking questions are scattered throughout the AVSFORUM.
Since MCACC is a common feature, I have been given the go ahead to start an
OFFICIAL MCACC thread.
There is an "Audyssey" thread where common problems get answered by their "pro's" and I am hoping that those typical MCACC questions get asked and answered here since not every knowledgeable MCACC expert hits every Pioneer thread.

The advantage is that MCACC questions could be centrally located and those questions dont bog down the individual Pioneer model threads.

Here are a few links that may give very basic info on MCACC, if you have more, let me know to include them.
I dont know how to link words to the web address, but hope posting the links works ok.

Short definition of MCACC
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...s/Tuning/MCACC

Pioneer's description of what MCACC does, click on link to see their demonstration:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/4.../AF_MCACC.html

Some info using Advanced MCACC and X-Curve for a particular unit that looked informative.
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avrecei...er/index1.html

Pioneer has downloadable "MCACC Software Manuals" that give more information. For the time period (time delay), there is a complete section on that subject ("Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration") on page 19 in both manuals I looked over (2 pages).

The manuals can be found on this page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eivers.Default


Some helpful hints contributed by "Gamelover360", the original posting is on page 3
Thanks Gamelover360 for your contribution.
"OK....This is what I feel I know about the proper work flow to get the most out of MCAAC after reading the receiver manual and the Advanvced MCAAC manual. This is also the work flow I plan to use this weekend when the wife gives me a few hours alone in the house.

Work Flow:

1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).

2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)

3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings. You will also be given the options to have MCAAC calibrate for symmetry, all ch adjust and front align. You may save each calibration to seperate presets or run just one of them, or run two of them. You will see these options after you select Keep Sp settings.

4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration(s) saved to M1 (or to multiple presets if you chose more than one EQ calibration type in previous step: symmetry, front align, and all ch adjust) (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to as many other free presets as you like.

5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.

6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.

Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.

7) Change to the appropriate MCAAC preset before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. You choose which preset, but I would recommend a preset that is a carbon copy of an auto MCAAC calibration so that you can do an A-B comparison between auto EQ and advanced EQ. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)

Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in a preset with the advanced EQ effects in other presets while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in a preset, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in other presets.

Advanced MCAAC Manual (especially read pages 18-20)

VSX-1018 owners manual (especially read pages 38-50)

If I am wrong about something (which is possible), let me know. I did this so that folks looking to get the most out of their equipment could better do that. The whole Auto MCAAC thing can be a bit confusing, so maybe you can benefit from my research and tinkering."

Note: Auto MCAAC select delay capture time based upon you rooom ,and I have no idea how it does this or how to know what it chose as a delay time. that is why I recommend using advanved EQ.
gamelover360 is offline Forward Message

Originally Posted by meg3020

Please help to locate the custom when I re-run auto MCACC. For some reason I could not find it so I can select Keep SP Settings...

Originally Posted by TCARCIO

I am interested in that question also. When I chose keep settings in order for me to keep the speakers set to small I had to choose front align because if I chose anything else it would reset back to large after cal. There was no "custom" choice. I have the 81txv.

Originally Posted by Macfan424

When you select Auto MCACC, there is a "Start" button. Next to it are small arrows. Using the right/left arrows on the remote, you can Change "Start" to "Custom", after which the options you are looking for can be accessed.

Not sure if this works on all models, but it does on the current ones.

Originally Posted by Derek821

I just bought the 819 and trying to set up the mcacc. When it is analyzing the environment it comes up with an err fch. I looked through the manual and can't find anything about an err fch. Could someone help me with this?

Also I don't know if anyone else has had a problem with this. When I plug in my ipod touch when i get to a certain volume level 46-48 the system automatically shuts down. What can I do to correct this on my reciever. I called pioneer support and they were really no help to me. Hopefully someone could help me with these two issues.

Thanks
Derek

Originally Posted by Thebarnman

Jeff uses his own equipment. What is important is choosing the most correct audio test signal and a microphone that's calibrated (or at least) compensated for it's own frequencies characteristics.

I'm not sure if the Pioneer's MCCAC is capable of compensating for each of the supplied mics that's provided with the receivers. I think the thing that's important here is that each mic has it's own frequency characteristics and has to be equalized one way or another for accurate readings. ..............

.................What was really interesting to me is during the playing of a certain THX trailer, he was able to determine if a certain feature needed to be turned off or on in my SC-07. This part had to do with very low frequencies.

Originally Posted by Macfan424

When you select Auto MCACC, there is a "Start" button. Next to it are small arrows. Using the right/left arrows on the remote, you can Change "Start" to "Custom", after which the options you are looking for can be accessed.

Not sure if this works on all models, but it does on the current ones.

Originally Posted by hybbe

Hi, sorry if this has been explained before, I couldn't find a detailed answer to this.

In the standing wave control - you have the following option:

TRIM (only available when the filter channel above is
SW) – Adjust the subwoofer channel level (to
compensate for the difference in output post-filter).


I thought my english was pretty good (I'm Norwegian), but I can't quite get my head around what this actually means.

What is the output post-filter? (is it the crossover?)

The difference in the post-filter compared to what? Huh?

When do I want this option turned on? And what does it do exactly? I assume it simply reduces or increases the overall subwoofer channel volume, but compared to what and based on what?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Macfan424

The filter they are referring to is associated with the standing wave control, and post filter means after the standing wave control is activated. The standing wave control employs the filter to cut back on a relatively narrow band of resonant frequencies. When it does, the overall level of the subwoofer band will be reduced, so the trim is needed to correct the overall level to compensate. (The subwoofer band is much wider than the resonant frequency, so the trim doesn't undo the filter's correction, it just brings the subwoofer back into balance with the other speakers.)

All of the instructions you cite have to do with manual adjustments of the Standing Wave Control. Most people don't have the equipment and/or patience to try to adjust it manually, and are better off using the settings that automatic MCACC creates, which will include any necessary trim.

Since virtually all rooms will have standing waves, it is better to always leave this setting On. If uncorrected, standing waves can impart a "boomy" sound to the bass.

Originally Posted by krabapple

Yes, it does...at one mode. Check your Standing Wave data and you will see one filter applied to SUB. The only question is whether it ever applies a filter below 63 Hz.

Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe

hybbe -- If your mains are flat to 36Hz, then your LFE crossover should be at least a half-octave to 1 octave higher (50Hz to 70Hz). Actually the 80Hz THX recommended crossover works the best with most sub-woofers. For stereo (2 channel audio), there is no LFE audio, so most (at least me) use the full range of the front channel speakers ("Stereo Direct" usually sounds the best, especially with your speakers).

NOTE, the "Pure Direct" (or Stereo Direct) mode disables the MCACC settings, but the "Pure" (Stereo) mode does not (another choice). With an 80Hz crossover, all of your other speakers should be set to "small", even though they are not, or may not be.

The object of the LFE crossover is to off-load the high power requirements put on your AVR for audio below the LFE crossover. This will give you more head-room, for the AVR amplifiers, for your other channels (and less stress on the AVR power supply). The sub-woofer amplifier is designed to handle the massive peak power required for the LFE audio.

If you want to get your sub to play with 2-channel stereo, you have to set your sub-woofer to the "Plus" mode (sub-woofer setup -- which sends all frequencies, bass + LFE, below the LFE crossover to the sub-woofer). You will have to try the various combinations (and there are lots of them) to see which sounds the best to you.

Yes, all the choices and combinations are confusing and can be very overwhelming. This is one of the problems with trying to put together a coherent manual. This is why I prefer to download the PDF copy of the manual -- it's easier to search for all of the scattered settings than it is to try to find them in the hard copy of the manual (I can also put up two copies on the screen, if needed).

Originally Posted by CruelInventions

So, it sounds like he totally bypassed MCACC, used his own software and/or measuring equipment to "tweak" your system, i.e., re-position sub and speakers, adjust receiver and sub crossovers and set speaker levels/distance.

If that's the case, how is the receiver now set in terms of MCACC? Is it turned off and nothing from this software EQ is being utilized for your SC-07?

Originally Posted by hybbe

...Judging on other comments here I will probably increase the bass level somewhat.

I have a large room peak/boost at around 60hz, which messes up the crossover between sub/mains somewhat. In my current setup my sub crossover is set as low as 40hz. (my mains have an in room frequency response to around 36hz within reference level - and with the sub the response extends to around 22hz before dropping off)

That works well for music, but not so good for movies as my center/back speakers should have a much higher crossover. On my old amp I could set the crossover individually for each source (so I could set it up to 80hz for movies), but if I have understood correctly this is a global setting for the pioneer. I will have to see if I can get things to work for music as well with a higher crossover setting...

Originally Posted by lapworth2005

I'm placing my receiver in another room and need to buy an extention cord for the mic. What kind of cable do I need and does it have to be mono or stereo?

Thanks in advance!