or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › SVS PB13-Ultra vs. JL Audio Fathom f113
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

SVS PB13-Ultra vs. JL Audio Fathom f113 - Page 3

post #61 of 158
It seems I keep asking this question, how does the ultra compare to the jl in sealed mode, both output and sound quality? Does anyone know or heard the 2 in the same location? How about you rydenfan? Not that I am going to purchase either one, just curious as it seems it would make a better comparison.

I built some DIY sono's using the eD 18 inch driver. First ported and then sealed. From my experience the ported sound better(HT) to me but that had 100% to due with the spl I was getting from the ported(4 big(13 cubes) ported subs compared to 4 smaller(5.6 cubes) sealed subs. Spl has alot to due with the effect. Now that I added 4 more sealed subs which has more spl than the 4 ported I prefer the sound of the sealed. That is why I am asking about the ultra in sealed. This will level the paying field, the ultra sound quality goes up(maybe) and output comes down which is how the JL is described alot.
post #62 of 158
Of course it can push the wind in that scene. It's a 13.5" cone driver that has 4" of excursion. I believe any good subwoofer in the proper room size with that amount of excursion better move some air! Please answer his question,what speakers DO you have in YOUR system? It's funny how some people want to tell others what they should buy with their own money! It seems you are upset by the fact that the JL Fathom cost too much for your budget? Guess what? I had to save to buy mine. Please don't reply with If you had the money you wouldn't buy one anyway, because we both know you would.
post #63 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It seems I keep asking this question, how does the ultra compare to the jl in sealed mode, both output and sound quality? Does anyone know or heard the 2 in the same location? How about you rydenfan? Not that I am going to purchase either one, just curious as it seems it would make a better comparison.

This is why I consider the Ultra the better value. It's variable tuning modes. And yes, it sounds very good sealed. But I like the higher output capability of the 20Hz mode. It's a very versatile sub.
post #64 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It seems I keep asking this question, how does the ultra compare to the jl in sealed mode, both output and sound quality? Does anyone know or heard the 2 in the same location? How about you rydenfan? Not that I am going to purchase either one, just curious as it seems it would make a better comparison.

Just looking at output, according to Illka's tests, the F113 has more average output than the Ultra in sealed mode.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...formation.html
post #65 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

Of course it can push the wind in that scene. It's a 13.5" cone driver that has 4" of excursion. I believe any good subwoofer in the proper room size should suffice. What speakers DO you have in your system? It's funny how some people want to tell others what they should buy with their own money! It seems you are upset by the fact that the JL Fathom cost too much for your budget? Please don't reply with If you had the money you wouldn't buy one anyway, because we both know you would.

I'm not telling anyone what to buy...
post #66 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

This is why I consider the Ultra the better value. It's variable tuning modes. And yes, it sounds very good sealed. But I like the higher output capability of the 20Hz mode. It's a very versatile sub.

So if it didn't have the variable tuning you wouldn't think it was the better value?
post #67 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

This is why I consider the Ultra the better value. It's variable tuning modes. And yes, it sounds very good sealed. But I like the higher output capability of the 20Hz mode. It's a very versatile sub.

My next question would be what would you prefer, the ultra in 20 hz mode or 2 ultra's in sealed mode(assuming output is about the same). Your ultra's would have to be run in sealed mode.
post #68 of 158
I edited my other post by adding info, you guys might have missed it(I type slow).

This is what I said

I built some DIY sono's using the eD 18 inch driver. First ported and then sealed. From my experience the ported sound better(HT) to me but that had 100% to due with the spl I was getting from the ported(4 big(13 cubes) ported subs compared to 4 smaller(5.6 cubes) sealed subs. Spl has alot to due with the effect. Now that I added 4 more sealed subs which has more spl than the 4 ported I prefer the sound of the sealed. That is why I am asking about the ultra in sealed. This will level the paying field, the ultra sound quality goes up(maybe) and output comes down which is how the JL is described alot.
post #69 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

I have one question re the Fathom:

Does it make the wind blow during Kung Fu Panda skadoosh scene?

LOL!

The F113 is a great sub, don't put it down. The PB13, with its much larger enclosure, can't touch the F113's output in sealed mode. This shows how much JL has done to engineer this marvel. (Of course I know the PB13 isn't designed for sealed (not enough power, driver, etc)] But still, I consider it a miracle what the f113 can do.

On the other side, the PB13 IS better than the f113 in HT. It is designed for that.
post #70 of 158
I'm by no means putting down the Fathom. I'm trying to point out the strengths of the Ultra...
post #71 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

For the price of one JL F113 you can get two Ultras...It's interesting the the judges of the craigsub rating list rated the Ultra higher than the 113 (109-103).

It's amazing how often SVS fanboys keep saying this. I bet you could not find anyone, not a single person, at least in the lower 48, who has paid anywhere close to MSRP. I bought my f113 about 21 months ago, and if what you said was true then, your PB113 would be $1,225. Shipped. Then again, it didn't exist at that time yet.

The SVS is a tad more than 195% the cabinet volume of the F113 as well. Stacked F113s would just be a tad larger than one PB13. Of course, now the cost will be more than double. While it has no bearing whatsoever on performance, the fit n finish, that feeling of having something of serious quality, subjectively, is there. Probably the nicest thing I own in this regard, and I've got a JVC Pj, psb, martin logan, NAD, Cambridge, Jolida, Onkyo, Panasonic, Toshiba, Real Traps, etc, etc, blah, blah, and if I had to pick one, Id say the JL is the finest looking product I own, respective to its competition. And I only have the satin finish!

However, I still am able to abstain from voting. Just my 2 cents. Whenever someone talks about 200% the price as being the main argument, I'm always
post #72 of 158
And the OP even said "disregarding price".

BTW...the Ultra is definitely a better value, I think most of us would agree on that. But is it the better sub?
post #73 of 158
My New F113's cost $2150, (again new in box) So the price is getting closer.
If you shop, you can get a good deal on a F113!

This brings the price a little closer.

"Granted one of mine 2 F113 does not turnoff and my old dealer turned his back on the known problem, after months of promises,
Sounds Terrific in St Petersburg Fl., but JL Audio, being a class company, said they would take care of it.

I am going back to my old FL JL dealer next time. I learned my lesson.
Dumb move, to save shipping charges on my part."
post #74 of 158
Price of the f113 doesn't matter, because the OP is looking for very strong HT performance. The PB13 is the better sub.

BTW, I don't think you can get the f113 this low now. I think it is much closer to MSRP now.
post #75 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

LOL!

The F113 is a great sub, don't put it down. The PB13, with its much larger enclosure, can't touch the F113's output in sealed mode.


Not quite, according to Illkas data, the Ultra in sealed mode is nipping at the heels of the f113 (1.9db behind, average 20-80hz), and even shows a bit less THD in the deepest frequencies. Most of that 1.9db average is because the f113 can deliver quite a bit more in the upper frequencies where the ultra by all probability is amp limited.
post #76 of 158
Has anyone have both in a theatre room?
post #77 of 158
I can't believe you guys are still bickering over this..... kinda ridiculous really...

Both are great subs and have a bit different SQ, either will have plenty of output for a medium size room. I like MKTheater have had ported, but moved to sealed, after I bought the F112, I knew that was what I preferred...

Everyone has their preferences.... Imagine if you had to eat McDonalds cheeseburgers 3 times a day for the rest of your life... Its nice to have options, sometimes they cost more, but these are products you can enjoy for years and years to come.... Sample them people.... there are plenty of people that will let you audition. Heck come to my house on the 28th, there will be a scary amount of bass here...

Ported, Passive Radiator, and Sealed....
post #78 of 158
Thread Starter 
What's the beef on ported vs. sealed subwoofers? Is one suppose to be better than the other? Why are people saying that the PB13-Ultra in sealed-mode is a poorer performer than the f113. Why is this important enough to mention?

And one more thing. What is port noise? What does it sound like and is it a problem with the PB13-Ultra?
post #79 of 158
Quote:


Has anyone have both in a theatre room?

I cant comment on the JL, but I have had a couple Ultra13's and now a couple sealed Mae-X 18"s with the Bassis. I guess the way I look at it is if a guy has the option of going sealed with more displacement (if needed), it's a very good option. Amp limited, multiples, no limiter and LT is the way to go about it imo. If i were regulated to one sub in the room, I would/might go with the Ultra13. I'm 99% HT and don't feel as though I'm missing anything with dual sealed 18"s.. so far the meeter tells me the same. What sub will put out the most is kind of a past argument that I decided to discard. That being that, I found the Ultra13"s the nicest Ultra SVS has come up with so far! No doubt about it, great sub. I like how multiple sealed comes across better, albeit takes more driver displacement. Any past Whatever subs including SVS cant hold a candle to how a sealed comes across with plugging the ports! I always laugh at that You watch the sealed SVS comes out, it'll be a way ahead of what the Ultra13 sounds like with the ports plugged.
post #80 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

What's the beef on ported vs. sealed subwoofers? Is one suppose to be better than the other? Why are people saying that the PB13-Ultra in sealed-mode is a poorer performer than the f113. Why is this important enough to mention?

And one more thing. What is port noise? What does it sound like and is it a problem with the PB13-Ultra?

To add to what steve stated, a properly designed ported sub should not suffer from port noise unless it is being over driven for the size of the room, which is where you would add multiple subs to allow more headroom and allow the subs to work less for the same amount of output.

Personally I prefer not to have a port contributing in any way to the sound signature presented, I prefer a driver system that retains its air spring/driver loading. I also prefer a manageable, heavily braced cabinet size, where the rear wave is isolated from the front wave. For my bass reproduction I'd rather not hear the subwoofer, just the sound...


Multiple sealed is the way to go IMO. SVS's up and coming sealed subs will be something to watch for.... They likely won't be out until late this year though... in fall...? Heck I'll buy one to see how they play out...
post #81 of 158
Quote:


What's the beef on ported vs. sealed subwoofers? Is one suppose to be better than the other? Why are people saying that the PB13-Ultra in sealed-mode is a poorer performer than the f113. Why is this important enough to mention?

And one more thing. What is port noise? What does it sound like and is it a problem with the PB13-Ultra?

Good questions.. The beef? It's always been out there. Difference of opinions I guess. What gets me is many form opinions with never really knowing by experience. You wont have any issue with port noise, I wouldn't give it a thought. (except to reiterate what Warp mentions) 13sealed mode.. well it's not really optimised for the sealed mode, although it is a option. It's optimised for the 20Hz tune with 15Hz tune a close second. I ran mine in the 15Hz tune, as I did with the other Ultra's I have enjoyed.
post #82 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

Price of the f113 doesn't matter, because the OP is looking for very strong HT performance. The PB13 is the better sub.

Where does the OP state that he is looking for strong HT performance? If he did, then that adds a condition and would give favor to the Ultra IMO.

Application and preference are key, but to understand preference, you have to experience both.
post #83 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Application and preference are key, but to understand preference, you have to experience both.

Agreed.....
post #84 of 158
I must say, I'm suprised that the Ultra is winning the poll with the preface of ignoring price. Of course all the comments in the thread immediately bring up value which is not what the OP was asking. I bought my F113 for a 14'X20' room and have been nothing but pleased with it for HT. I think JL has the superior sub, obviously since I found it worth the price premium enough to purchase over SVS. I have always preferred sealed subs but would definately consider getting an Ultra for the family room and having the Fathom in the dedicated theater room. The biggest thing you are probably paying for with the JL is size.
post #85 of 158
Quote:


Application and preference are key, but to understand preference, you have to experience both.

The only thing I would ad is experience both "with a sufficient amount of headroom".
post #86 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

The only thing I would ad is experience both "with a sufficient amount of headroom".

Amen. I would add to that: experience both with the same driver, amp, placement and room. Only changing the enclosure. Now you're getting somewhere.
post #87 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp133 View Post

I must say, I'm suprised that the Ultra is winning the poll with the preface of ignoring price.

Don't be.

More here will always own the cheaper subs. More owners equals more opinions despite the fact 8 out 10 opinion givers have never compared the two.
post #88 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp133 View Post

I must say, I'm suprised that the Ultra is winning the poll with the preface of ignoring price. Of course all the comments in the thread immediately bring up value which is not what the OP was asking. I bought my F113 for a 14'X20' room and have been nothing but pleased with it for HT. I think JL has the superior sub, obviously since I found it worth the price premium enough to purchase over SVS. I have always preferred sealed subs but would definately consider getting an Ultra for the family room and having the Fathom in the dedicated theater room. The biggest thing you are probably paying for with the JL is size.

There are more Ultra owners on AVS than Fathom owners, and many many more SVS fanboys. It totally makes sense to me that there would be more votes for SVS, regardless of price. Both are high quality subs, but I think it depends on application and personal preference as to which is the best fit.
post #89 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Don't be.

More here will always own the cheaper subs. More owners equals more opinions despite the fact 8 out 10 opinion givers have never compared the two.

Or more likely, 8 of 10 have never heard either one
post #90 of 158
Wow, this is great stuff. Lets wait until SVS comes out with their SB Ultra. After that, we'll all have apples to apples, and oranges to oranges.....and less bickering. Or not.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › SVS PB13-Ultra vs. JL Audio Fathom f113