How common is "dirty screen effect" for current Pioneer 9G Owners? - Page 6

I don't know if I have it or not to tell you the truth. lol. I know I've seen what you guys are describing but rarely. Honestly I haven't seen it since last year but then that could be because of the content I'm viewing. Where I was really seeing it was while watching Hockey (thankfully I'm NOT a fan of the sport ). When the camera panned across the ice I would see what I thought was DSE but then I went to my LCDs and actually saw the same thing. It wasn't nearly as noticeable on the LCDs as the plasma but it was there. So that got me thinking maybe what I'm seeing is the plasma showing every bit of the signal that I never noticed before, and as we all know, that includes the flaws in the signal. So now I'm totally baffled. One thing I DO see is if I get close on the screen and look at, say something like a lamp in the same room, the reflection of an external light source I can see slight "ripples" in what I believe is the AR coating. It definitely isn't applied evenly.

It seems that the glass is dipped in this stuff and sheeting occurs rather than spraying it across the screen.

I think your right about the sheeting. That could explain what I'm seeing in regard to DSE. The question is what Pioneer deems acceptable.

Good job at capturing an actual image of this and enhancing it, bpmurr as it's something not easy to get a picture of.

I don't think the glass was dipped in the tint as when my tv is off I can clearly see where they missed small spots, where one area is so much darker than another area right next to it that it looks like they forgot to spray it. During normal viewing this shows up as streaks when the camera pans vertically over a solid color.

bpmurr, you cleaned your screen with distilled water, did it improve the DSE at all, did you notice a lot of gunk on the cloth?

I used Invisible Glass cleaner since it is also approved by Pioneer for use. I did notice some gunk that came off on the white microfiber towel. That got rid of the very noticeable DSE because that was actual dirt or whatever. What's left is something that is in one of the layers below the glass.

Thanks, it was a pain to try and get to show. Ideally the panel would be a uniform grey across the entire panel. However, with the Pioneer it has some areas darker then other. Normally I notice the horizontal ones more then the vertical.

I've noticed that some people also mention horizontal streaks, but I don't think I've ever seen them on mine. I only occasionally see the vertical ones like those that you can see in that picture that you took. Have you seen horizontal streaks like others have seen, and do you suppose horizontal streaking is being caused by same thing that causing these vertical ones? I'm not going to try to find horizontal streaks on mine .

I went to Best Buy today and looked at the 111 and 151 display models. They also had a 5080 open box that did it as well. They both did the same thing my set does so I know going the exchange or panel replacement route isn't going to help. It's just what these sets do and you either notice it or not. I don't notice it with my glasses off. When they are on and my vision is 20/20 I notice it.

To be fair, this picture shows the uneven brightness. It is something that is common with all kuros. I do not call this dse in the least. It fades to even on every kuro I have ever seen with 6 months or whatever hours of use.

LCD flashlights and clouding are about 300% worse, yet not noticable under normal viewing....making the kuros slight by comparison uneveness a complete non issue. If my screen could be detected during content, I'd have been angry. It was as in the picture for 200ish hours and got better each day. Shame the clouds and flashlight only get worse with age.

If it bothers you, the alternatives are settling for even less. Sadly.

I hope that the blotch/uneveness is not what this thread is about...dirty screen effect better be something else.

What I'm saying is that there is something over the panel that causes the uneveness. Regardless the two Elites that have been up since last year at my Best Buy show the same thing. It's not something that "gets better". Either you notice it or you don't. Personally I handled the "clouding" on my 52A650 much better. It's something I didn't notice unless it was a blank input. The Kuro is pretty much the same with the dark blotches so it's a wash.

If something like this would bother you that much, you shouldn't even consider current LCD's.

Funny that you say that. The Sharp LCD banding is what got me to check the screen uniformity like this. Now even CNET points that out on their reviews. I wasn't expecting something like this from the Pioneer. I figured the videophile crowd would be all over this. Instead they stand silent or in denial. Heck everything else about the Pioneer set is quality so I'm surprised they as a company didn't have a problem with DSE.

Since noticing DSE I've gone to two different Best Buys and every Kuro set did the same thing to a certain extent. Watch someone ski down a mountain and you'll catch the DSE in the snow. Outside of DSE I like pretty much everything else about the set.

Maybe its not that big of a deal.

bpmurr - Do you notice uneven brightness watching a movie with dark scenes? Is your picture exaggerated at all or is that how it appears to you?

My 5020 has what looks like backlight bleed on the bottom 1-2''. The bottom black bar doesn't completely blend into the bezel in very dark scenes such as when Gordon is interogating the Joker in The Dark Knight. It's easy to see on a blank input with no ambient light that the upper 2/3 is darker than the bottom.

That I haven't noticed but I'll check tonight. What I usually see is when someone is skiing down a mountain. There is what looks like lines and blobs in the mountain as it pans over areas of the screen. It's not in your face but can stick out from time to time taking away from the image quality. I'm surprised a professional reviewer hasn't picked up on this.

I only notice the "DSE" on my 5020FD in light areas on the screen. You may actually have a defective panel if you have light leakage, this is strange for plasmas as they have excellent screen uniformity.

bpmurr,

How is the A650 working out for you? I am considering the A650 or A750 to replace my 5020FD.

I sold the 52A650 to my neighbor. I wish I didn't since it was a great set. Sure it doesn't have the blacks like the Pioneer but the picture was clean. I should update my sig to reflect I don't have it. I might buy it back from him though.

I don't have exactly what you described, but for about a 1/2 inch (maybe more, maybe less) around the entire border of the picture there is a faint glow which makes the border slightly lighter in color than the rest of the picture. Alot of people have mentioned they have this, I don't think it's an issue.

111 here. No DSE.

I know your TV history and I believe from my experience when you get a TV that works for you, keep it. Your more critical than myself but I know that flat panel LCD and plasma are flawed technologies.

My 2005 plasma flickered and drove me crazy. My 37" Sharp's worked for me and bought a 52" Sammie this year and works for me. I bought a 52" d62 Sharp a few years ago and had the same banding issue like yourself and returned it. If not for the AVS I might have over looked this issue.

I've learned alot about TV issues from your posts but it sounds to me that the Sammie worked better for you and you should settle for it and enjoy it.

You said it yourself....everything else is so good that it is the least of all evils out there.
Not to mention it varies slightly from panel to panel.
There is no LCD out there that only has one issue.

Maybe I spoke incorrectly. There are a lot of good things about the set but to me it's not as good as people make it out to be. DSE shows itself in a good bit of what I watch so for me it's a deal breaker. Unless it magically disappears my set is going back before the 30 days return window is up. I'll probably just get another 52A650 or 55Bx000 set if the price comes down.

The Samsung was a great set. I should never have sold it.

bpmurr, didn't you audition this set before you purchased it? I spent many hours on several occasions looking at the Kuros at a couple high-end stores with dark showrooms. I knew fairly well what to expect of this set once I got it home. I even burnt a DVD of my regular SD TV source (BUD, "old C Band") to see how it looked at the stores on the Kuro.

No TV is perfect but this was the best I’ve found for my tastes. I haven’t seen what has been referred to as DSE here on my 141 but I haven’t specifically looked for it either. I was very sensitive to screen noise (SSE) from rear projectors and looked for that in panning shots of light sky scenes and was very happy to see it gone when I started looking at Kuros (8G).

Didn't have the chance. Got in on the price drop at Best Buy about a month ago and ordered it. I looked at the 111 and 151 on the wall and didn't notice it in the feed at the time (I do now on those same sets). I didn't even think this was something I had to look for on a Plasma. This was suppose to be the best of the best so I let my guard down.

I don't know if the stand/speakers are important to you, but I'm starting to think that the Signature series sets are far less prone to this issue.

I have viewed 2 Signature sets, and neither had *any* trace of the problem. I know exactly what to look for and they simply didn't have it. They're supposed to have "hand-selected" glass, which at this point indicates to me that Pioneer has always been aware of the issue.

If I could do it all over again I'd probably go for a 101, though I suppose I'm lucky in that my 111's DSE is pretty minor and only rarely noticeable. If there's one thing I could change about the set, though, that would be it.

I need at least the stand. The 101 is out of my price range.

Maybe people don't notice DSE because they watch a lot of movies a the theater and see all the crap in the picture. Then they just assume it's part of the transfer.

I've had the Pioneer 150, 4280, and now 141 (monitor) and they all have varying levels of DSE (150 was the worst, and 141 appears the best). Prior
to owning these TVs, I've been through 3 Sharp TVs that banded (including the 92 series a couple years back) and I can say the DSE isn't even close to
being as bad as the banding. In fact, I never see the DSE on the 141 or 4280 unless I use the brightest modes (SPORTS on 141) and the content itself is white,
scrolling, and solid (ie: no texture). Even then, the DSE is so very very slight I have to look for it. There's no DSE for static images at all, unlike my prior LCDs.
However, my old 150 had much worse DSE which I could see even with static content and it happened in all modes and even with dull colours.

Also, my 141's DSE is even harder to notice now after 1 month of owning the TV. I've had to stare hard to notice it, so it's definitely improving with
time (something which I didn't expect, given my old 150). Heck, even the slight buzzing is almost gone (and blotch is completely gone) which makes
me curious as to what the heck is going on during break-in. Whatever the case, folks with a 30-day return period should wait until near the end.

My take on all these TVs are that we're not quite to the point of out of the box perfection yet. I've seen slight DSE on Panasonics and Sammys (but
not as pronounced as my previous 150), slight streaks on LCDs (not to mention the clouds/uneven backlighting), and distortions on CRTs of yesteryear.

My personal ratings of bad to not so bad are:
(worst/biggest issue) Burn-IN > Bands > clouds > Major buzzing > streaks/DSE > CRT Gauze > Slight buzzing (less of an issue).

Remember too: different faults vary from TV to TV, so what you experience on your TV isn't the same everywhere. You cannot assume folks are not
"seeing" the same stuff as you because they are blind or ignorant. Some folks have a tendency to project their issues on everyone, while others have
the tendency to ignore issues which complicates things even more.

You look to be in the EXACT same boat as me! I have a 111, had it since last September, and play PS3 and Xbox360 almost exclusively with some blu ray mixed in. I went all around to Best Buys and Tweeters at the time and I saw DSE on all of them, granted some were way worse then other but all noticable once you know what to look for. I have never seen a 101 in person only the 141, I seriously doubt the 101 has NO DSE like the post previously to this one indicates, as they are they same panels of glass and same technology. I honestly would recommend keeping the KURO though, there isnt anything out there that can touch these and that is why I have dealt with this flaw.

You will regret it if you go back to LCD, trust me, been there done that. If you could be a ginea pig and buy a 101 and see if it has DSE, I know it will be there but maybe you will get fortunate and it won't have much!

There are a lot of things I like about the Kuro. I still have a little time to change my mind. I want to another BB in my area and looked at the 111,151, and 141 on display. I saw DSE on the 111 and 151. However, the 141 from what I could tell did not have DSE. The only thing was the 141 never went to a solid picture so it made it hard to tell.