Kuro - Non-Elite vs Elite picture comparision.

sounds to me like you have a condition known as non-elite buyers remorse. Happened to me too...just got a 111 instead and I'm cured.

You'll have the same black levels, but the ability to tweak the colors more with the Elite.

I needed/wanted the extra control so I got the Elite.

I bought the 6020 (non-Elite) and then decided to get a 151 (Elite).

The 6020 was an amazing TV, but the amount of settings were hard to live with since I was used to having alot of picture controls coming from a 5080 and an XBR4.


(ELITE (111/151) OR NON-ELITE (5020/6020))?????


Here are the settings/features the Elites (111/151) have:
Settings:

1. Brighness
2. Sharpness
3. Color
4. Contrast
5. Tint
6. A/V selection (Optimum/Performance/PURE/Movie/Sport/Game/Standard)
7. Pure cinema selection (Film mode ON/OFF, Text optimization ON/OFF)
8. Intelligent mode (OFF / MODE1 / MODE2)
9. DRE (Off / HIGH / MID / LOW)
10. BLK LVL (ON / OFF)
11. ACL (ON / OFF)
12. Enhanser mode (1 / 2 / 3)
13. GAMMA selection (1 / 2 / 3)
14. Color temp (Manual/LOW/Mid-LOW/Mid/Mid-High/High)
15. CTI (ON / OFF)
16. Color management (R / Y / G / C / B / M)
17. Color space (1 / 2)
18. 3DNR (OFF / HIGH / MID / LOW)
19. Field NR (OFF / HIGH / MID / LOW)
20. Block NR (ON / OFF)
21. Mosquito NR (OFF / ON)

Features:

1. Color sensor (not availible with non-elites)
2. Backlit remote (not availible with non-elites. But you can order the 111/151 remote from Pioneer and use it on your 5020/6020 if you really want a backlit remote.)
3. Elite color filter. (not availible with non-elites)

*Warranty-2 years*


Here are the Features/Settings the non-elites (5020/6020) have:
1. Brightness
2. Sharpness
3. Color
4. Contrast
5. Tint
6. A/V selection (Optimum/Performance/Movie/Sport/Game/Standard/NO PURE MODE)
7. Pure cinema selection (Film mode ON/OFF, Text optimization ON/OFF)

*Warranty-1year*




-Chadmak09

It's funny that you ask. I just got a 5020. Though my buddy Cubbiechris has the 8G elite, I'm going to bring my TV (and PS3)over to his house this weekend to compare picture quality.

I owned the 6020 for a short time last year. I was not happy with it as many are here and returned it. Like a good CNET review, always read between the lines. "The NE is the best set out there besides the Elite". I thought the NE was great but returned it for the Elite. Or you will just hear it's the best "second" set available but I returned it.
Return=not happy period. In my opinion.

I am one not afraid to voice my opinion on the NE's.

The ability to adjust the picture the way I like was an issue on the 6020. I will follow some of the recommended settings here but sometimes you just have to tweek a little. I could not get the set the way I liked. Blacks are great though.

Since then, I have looked to the Elite 151 and played with it many times now at the store. This is what I expected the 6020 to be! Beautiful!

Oh, and by the way I finally ordered the 151 yesterday. I will be out of town at the end of next week so I am probably up for delivery around the 9th. Can't wait! A new set has been a drawn out affair. Tired of waiting....

Doing my best to keep Pioneer going strong (one set at a time).

If you have slight regrets-return it. The regrets do not go away and I am not one to talk myself into anything.

Rick

LOL


You're going to lug around your TV for a shootout?


I'm going to go with Elite because of the extra controls, extra year in warranty, side-mounted speakers, and the ISF modes.

The things I do for my fellow members......

I think Chad sums it up and he speaks from experience. Elite is the way to go if you can swing it!

Yah Elite all the way mines coming in Thursday right

Thanks for responding to my other posts. But could you do me one more favor, or anyone for that matter that knows this stuff, can you give a quick description of the settings from 6 down and discuss how each will affect the picture.

I hope that I am not asking to much

Ask anyone who owns a Kuro 'Elite' PDP, what is the best, most accurate/natural looking image rendered by the picture settings available (7 for the 8Gs) and they will tell you it is the "Pure" A/V selection.

You don't have this option with non-Elite PDPs.

I'll add a little dissent here as an NE owner.

That list can be somewhat misleading depending on how you understand it.
If you understand it to mean all of those processing features don't exist in the Non-Elite model then that would be incorrect. Chad's list simply omits features that cannot be individually adjusted by the user in the Non-Elite model.

Most of the processing features listed above are present and active in the non-elite model but cannot be individually adjusted by the user. They can either be selected as part a selectable A/V mode with built-in value or are always active such as the noise reductions.

I've researched all the features but won't list all the details in this post. IMO Color temp is significant loss/gain from NE to Elite in terms of adjustibility and the choice of ColorSpace 1 vs. Colorspace 2 is where you get closer to Rec 709 HD color accuracy. Beyond that I find the real differences quite minor.

I also compared both models including a calibrated Elite and chose the Non-Elite for 2 main reasons.

1) Value - Bang for buck I thought the real difference did not justify for me the price discrepency at the time (maybe it's smaller now?)

2) Picture Quality - I found a slight preference for the saturated color of the Non-Elite with it's built-in settings (colorspace 2). Colorspace 1 reminds me of the very natural color I get on my CRT's however I found a little more 3D vivid punch in the non-elite settings as they came from Pioneer.

Although the Elite could duplicate those settings I thought it would make it a waste of money for me to setup an Elite with Non-Elite style settings anyway. I'd prefer that tuck that grand or two away and keep an eye on the next 2yrs of TV technology. Also if you get the grayscale calibrated for your NE model I'm pretty confident you won't be missing much PQ.

To be fair I don't think the Elites I saw were calibrated with ISFcc mode where the image I'm told can be both accurate and brighter with it's most accurate overall setting. Still I find the non-elite the best bang for the buck despite the control restrictions and I'm not one to buy electronics for any 'psychological' reasons (e.g. 'because it's the bestest'). If I can't really see it or hear it, I'll pass and wait.

Completely agree. I went with the non elite only because it's in the bedroom and not in my living room. (58" inch Panny 850U resides there)

Very Very good point.

Just like you said, The features like DRE, BLK LVL, ACL, Enhancer mode, Gamma, and CTI are present in the Non-Elites.
They are just forced and not changeable.

Pioneer made thier own little "recipe" for each setting depending on which A/V mode you are in.

they are laid out like this as in the link Dehalims provided.

A/V Mode ---DRE --- Black Level -- ACL -- EnhancerMode --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic----- High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------ Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard---- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On

I preferred Movie mode more than any of them on my 6020.


Of course, this is nothing like it will look at home because my camera sucks, but it will give you an idea of the differences,

Here are some pictures I took on my 6020 from each mode showing the same picture. NOTE: These pictures were taken with the settings at Factory Default straight out of the box. I had not yet entered D-Nices reference settings for Movie mode (Which made a large difference):

Great pics of the default settings ChadMak.

Nothing beats an accurate setting when it comes to skin tones. The effect on other types of video scenes or on less standards compliant content such as games can be interesting however.

Going by those pics, 'Dynamic' and 'Performance' look horrendous. 'Movie' looks the best.

Indeed, although Performance can be adjusted while Dynamic cannot.

The only mode worth watching is and Optimum. The others are horrible. In Movie Mode the guy's cheeks are green.

the optimum looks the best to me

FANTASTIC POST! These are the posts we need!

They ALL need some (or a lot) of work. They are at factory default settings, afterall. Movie mode will look the best after the proper adjustments are made.

Thanks Chad for the pics.

What stands out to me most in ALL of those pics in all modes is there is absolutely zero definition in his forehead in every mode. Smooth as a baby's butt. Not a wrinkle, frown line or hair to be seen. Not good.

Could you post the same pic on your 151? I know your current settings are not out of the box and you have played with self-calibration but it would be a fun compare.

Thanks

Rick

Edit: I see this is from Cinemax now so a compare is probably not possible. Unless you buy the flick.

Exactly,
The reason Optimum looks the best is because it is the closest to reference out of the box (and that is how these pictures were taken).

But once you put D-Nices reference settings in for Movie mode, Everything changes.

Movie mode looks much better than Optimum IMO.

I have heard of some people using Optimum on thier Elite 9G's.
IMO, If you are going to use Optimum mode then there is no need to get an elite. It will be identical on the non-elite. (minus color sensor if you use it).

One thing worth mentioning is Pure mode on the Elite.
Pure mode is worthy of the name "Pure".

It does a better job with my crappy Comcast Cable HD than any mode I have used on my elite.
Pure is nice and punchy and accurate.

I will also mention, Using ISF-Day mode really surprised me also.
It is by far brighter than any mode I have used.
I turned it on ISF-Day the other night, and I had to turn it off. It was too bright for me. It gave me flashbacks of my LCD days but with plasma blacks. I immediatly changed to ISF-Night and ahhhhhh bliss

When things get better at work and the layoffs stop, I am going to pay to have D-Nice come over and calibrate the ISF modes.

I also want to see if he will calibrate pure mode also.
For some reason, it seems that Pure cleans up my terrible HD signal a little more than ISF modes do. But this may be because I have not calibrated the ISF modes correctly yet. Or it could have something to do with how Pure handles the signal. I am not sure.

But one things for sure, When watching a Blu-ray on my PS3, ISF modes look a little better

Its only with my choppy Comcast signal that pure seems to clean up the signal a little better. And its not that the color or blacks look better on Pure mode, its that it stopps the pixelization that happens with comcast cable.

I am not sure what it is called, but my Comcast signal exhibits a strange "blocky" noise. Its almost like small blurry squares when there is alot of motion.
Man, I wish FIO's was availble here!!

hmmm...from those pics id say that either movie or game look the best, which is good, cuase those are the only two setting im planning on using when my 5020 gets here friday!!!! movie with movies, and game with my 360, woot...but im confused, isnt game supposed to be cooler than movie? it doesnt look that way in those pics

For EVERYONE pictures will NOT help. alot of varitions can take place,

roncc even if you have a pro take a picture and a serious camera that cost more then 1k you cannot see what your EYES see in real life.

chad had the non elite and returned it and went with the elite.

Now here is my expereince, I never had a non elite thats true However i know somewhat of adjusted settings based on my own eyes, With the elite you have settings to adjust to your like to a T so this is very useful say if you watch SD content and on the elite vs non elite it will be very noticeable,

Also between CS 1 and cs 2 (color space) you have that option on elite, Another thing is the brigher look during the day due to a diffrent bonded filter on the elite, theirs alot of settings that i dont remmeber at this momen on my head but it helps alot to get an elite over a non elitie.....

i would still get a non elite over anything else however if you can do it get an elite as theirs NO loss....

Also if you like accurate look but complaint for not being SUPER bright then you will love the elite as it has isfCCC where you can activate via SM and make 51 FL happen without crushing blacks or cliping whites....

Get an elite if you can no loss

This setting is my 2nd choice. Too bad the non-Elite owners can't see a pic w/Pure mode.

Side by side they are close but the Elite has more of a real picture if you will. Without the Elite there, the Standard Pioneer is a clear winner and I would take it over just about everything else on the market.
If money is a problem get the standard model, if you can swing it, go Elite.

Yea, I also wish I had a better camera.
But like gus said, pics are really not an accurate representation. So many things come into play. But they give you an idea.
I have some pictures I took of my elite in Pure mode but none are the picture of ben kinsley (is that his name?).

Here they are:

My 151 in PURE Mode #1

My151 in PURE Mode #2